history, bernie madoff.rney ira lee sorkin discusse s what's ahead for sbf who has plead guilty and turned state witness. next, closing bell we've got 29 minutes left. as i said we're coming off the lows but there's still significant red on the screen. it's the nasdaq getting hurt the most down 2.25% or 243 points led by the chips. we are coming right back and by the way we want to say because who knows what's going to happen in the final half hour, we'll go commercial free. don't move. when things go right too. like, when you score your dream job. sell your business. or discover she's smart... really smart. now what? here's what: you connect with prudential's rock-solid team serving over 50 million people. with investment, insurance and retirement know-how. who's your rock? visit prudential.com or speak to an advisor today. the refrigerator is greg's happy place. my kids eat. but i finally figured it out. we can get all that we need and then a little bit more at walmart. ♪ if your business kept on employees

without mini madoff the democrats don't win the senate.veniently, right after the election the story blows up. billions missing. mini madoff was running the biggest ponzi scheme in u.s. history. stealing cash and donating it to democrats. >> bankman-fried and his co-spirits stole billions of dollars from ftx customers. he used that money for his personal benefit. violated federal campaign finance laws by causing tens of millions of dollars in illegal campaign contributions to be made to candidates in all of this dirty money was used in service of bankman-fried's desire to buy bipartisan influence and impact the direction of public policy in washington. >> jesse: pin any got popped last night in the caribbean. wasn't a coincidence. he was scheduled to testify under oath to congress today to mad maxine's committee. no relation. he would have run his mouth the same way he has been running his mouth for the last month and a half. mini madoff already on a media tour making more stops than fauci. every time mini madoff opened his mouth he humili

attorney in the criminal investigation of disgraced fraudster, bernie madoff.beth: when you saw ftx fraud explode and learn comparisons to bernie madoff, what were your reactions to all of that? >> first of all, it brought me back 14 years almost to the day when the madoff fraud broke. but what's viking to me are the -- striking to me are the differences between madoff and bankman-fried. what's alleged currently happened in a markedly unregulated market, more of wild west, whereas what madoff did occurred in a very highly regulated securities market. the current case took place over 2-3 years, madoff was over decades. the victims are different. or appear on, i imagine anyway, in the realm of cryptocurrency you probably have more sophisticated investors, younger investors. in the case of madoff, i think it was much more diverse, a lot of older people, people who had been, families who had been with him for decades. there were, of course, sophisticated investors, but the victims included unions, people who doesn't even know they were investing in madoff and the l

on a proportion scale, this is where it's bigger than madoff.s literally money in from people, money out from anybody that wanted to take their ill-gotten gains or gains that they thought that were real, this is different. money allegedly if you follow the indictment taken from customer accounts and gambled away in the sort of global casino of crypto. i don't know how you claw that back. some of it can be clawed back. his houses and stuff like that. a lot -- >> neil: or from the original beneficiaries. the reason they mention a ponzi scheme, they pay them, make sure they're happy. what is the possibility of extending it to people early versus people that were screwed? >> it's where the source is. you have to figure out a cut off date and when it became a ponzi scheme. once you establish the relevant dates, you say what did he reliably spend money on that came from the ill -- that came from the pilfered accounts? here's where it gets crazy. a lot of the stuff he spents money on wasn't on houses. it was lost in trades. that i don't think you can c

"primetime" mini madoff is sticking. >> he doesn't like it., mini, that's your name. although we do like crypto fetterman. george stephanopoulos who could have called the crypto scam company out let mini madoff play the victim card instead. watch. this you also took out a $1 billion loan. what was that for? >> that was generally reinvest not guilty company. that was not for, you know, consumption. i, you know, tyke, i have basically nothing left. i think i have $100,000 left in my bank account last time i checked and i think i have one credit card working with that right now. >> i can't imagine what it feels like to go from $20 billion to $100,000. >> yeah. it's -- i mean, it's been a really -- it's been a really humbling fall in a lot of ways. >> jesse: so george is empathizing with him not the people who lost their money with him. got it. poof. 20 billion vaporized. i mean, it's what happens when you are dipping into customer funds and accidentally buying homes. that's a story now. he says that $16 million house that he bought his parents it

but on the other hand, that's also what happened with madoff.you remember, traded on connections, traded on this image of success and got very sophisticated people to put in money. but i think the other thing, neil, you're right, the thing they have in common is they're both simple frauds. this doesn't really involve crypto the, per se. what happened was bankman fraud -- fried, sorry, went to investors and said give me money, i promise i'll do a with it, and instead he used it to make his own fortune, to buy his own houses and real estate. it's just simple fraud and theft which is what madoff was engaged in too. and just like madoff went to jail for a long, long time, bankman-fried could, i would expect he's going to try to settle so he doesn't die in prison like madoff did. neil: so where does this go and how many people does it likely ensnare? and those who have lost all their money, you know, eventually over the years some money died get back to madoff investors. not all. a few were made whole. but i'm wondering how owe see this playing out.

. >> jesse: mini madoff finally showed his face today.tick around and hear what he had to say. ♪ >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ [coughing] hi, susan. honey. yeah. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. >> jesse: very important meeting weighs held today between kamala harris and emmanuel macron. they didn't talk about ukraine or china. no, today's discussion was far more important than both of those things combined. listen. >> i believe fa space a place of unrealized opportunity. and for that reason, there is so much potential in terms o

bernie madoff carried the scheme out according to the government for over 30, 40 years. the reason he was caught was because his two boys tipped off the government he confessed to his two boys, unfortunately neither of them are with us and the government then acted here, i suspect there are a number of people who when this was not public, tipped off the government, about what has been going on by mr. bankman-fried and that's where the investigation started. they didn't put this case together at least from the standpoint of the s.e.c.'s numerous factual allegations in a month. this is an investigation that has been going on and generally these types of cases start off with somebody who walks into the government, or somebodies walks into the government and says i want to tell you about -- so, that is different than madoff. with madoff, the amount of money the government said when he was solely responsible for was somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 billion. most of that, when i say most of that, i'm overstating, he said before he died and soon after he was arrested that i

not that much different than bernie madoff. he reminds me of madoff.e interviewed all the creeps. not him. they all had this weird disengagement from reality. madoff when i was interviewing him in prison at the time, you know, you know, i was kind of forced into it. my clients demanded it. this guy is doing the same thing. >> bill: you wrote about madoff saying he committed the fraud because he was trapped into the greed of others. >> that's what he told me. there is a disengagement. in order to be a socio- path and rip people off there has to be something in your brain that keeps you focused on the crime or on the misdeed and you see it in madoff, i saw it in epstein, i interviewed him several times. a guy totally detached from the reality of what he did. you see it in this guy saying i didn't mean this. oh, i -- you know, i was too busy with ftx to care about the hedge fund that was losing all the money. i made a mistake here. and every now and then he says i'm sorry. it really is a bizarre psychological thing but it is common. they all have the same

i was critical of mini madoff as a name for some reason.ut i promise you i would come back with some alternatives. >> jesse: okay. quickly. >> which i have. i think the win we're crowd scattered showers scam bang run fraud. >> jesse: i think he will have another nickname in prison but that's just me. >> tell me after. >> jesse: thank you so much, lid i can't. when you get yourself in trouble. the smartest thing to do is lay low. get out of town, don't talk to anybody and wait for things to blow over. >> i tell the guys listen, i don't mind paying for the tail pipe but that [bleep] muffler is still under warrant. >> all set? >> yeah. >> nice talking to you. enjoy miami. [laughter] >> what the [bleep] is wrong with you. >> what? >> you tell somebody your life story? you are supposed to be laying low. >> laying low gets boring though. ask hunter. after the "new york post" got a copy of hunter's laptop and aired out his dirty laundry. he went into hiding. posted up in a $20,000 a month malibu mansion until things blew over. spent his day painti

>> madoff? >> madoff! jail, and after the events of the great recession, sitcom characters are winking to the audience, like, "this system is rigged. there is vast income inequality." ♪ >> have you had a chance to think of my zinger? >> well, it's almost thanksgiving, everybody, and i know what this crowd's giving thanks for -- estate tax reform. >> [ laughs ] >> in "30 rock," jack donaghy, who's this corporate goon, basically, is so rich that he really doesn't even understand how regular people live. >> damn, i wish this event were tonight. >> it's not tonight? when is it? >> february. >> jack donaghy is in the 1%, and liz is just solidly middle class. >> why are you wearing a tux? >> it's after 6:00. what am i, a farmer? >> in the episode "the tuxedo begins," jack donaghy is mugged. >> my assailant was a middle-aged white man wearing a button-down shirt and dockers. dockers! we're on the verge of a class war. >> he fears that the middle class would rise up and take back what is theirs from these multi-bi

but madoff was -- acting as a money manager. and as a fiduciary so there is the expectation when people gave their money to bernie madoff, that he was a -- taking care of it. and was acting as a -- not -- as a custodian, managing it for them. there was no expectation of that with sam bankman-fried. at a bare the most this was an exchange. it was noting regulated in the united states it was an offshore exchange, the vast majority of activity that happened was offshore. anyone here in the united states who had their money there, knew that. or expectation was that they knew that. he was not acting as a fiduciary. so when people say oh, bernie madoff the only comparison is well it was a fast allegedly but no expectation of regulation, of fiduciary duty he was a not a money manager let's be very clear about that, that doesn't make the theft alleged right. but nevertheless, there is a big you know, this is kind what have you were getting into by investing in crypto, knowing that there was no oversight of it. and, and you know that was

perlmutter: because we on this committee, and the number of us had to deal with the madoff stuff, one of the things you are going to face is some guy say, i'm more innocent than that guy. i should get to keep my money even though i got paid yesterday, but i'm an innocent guy. you are going to be dealing with so many preferences, so many fraudulent transfers. have you any idea what the total money in and total money out of f.t.x. was? mr. ray: we don't have a full accounting at this early stage, no. mr. perlmutter: do you know how much was in tokens. say i have 10dogi coin which a year ago -- doge coin. i have 10. a year ago 10 for sake of argument was wo*rts $1,000, or 100 bucks a coin. i put that in there. but doge coin today is worth, i don't know what, say not nearly that much. how are you going to evaluate that as to what i should get out of the bankruptcy? mr. ray: doing an accounting and tracing of all the assets. all the ins and outs. that's made difficult by the commingling of assets. perhaps you may have invested in a certain coin or old coin, we'll have to trace what happene

you go from warren buffet to mini madoff. actually robbing your customers to pay for corporate sex parties, drugs, penthouses and helping the democrats win the senate, mini madoff went from living the high life to getting thrown in a jail to sit with rats and maggots and where most of the inmates have bedsores from having to sleep on the dirty floors. >> mini is saying this is all happening a little too quickly. he says a guy like him can't live like this. he is vegan and he is depressed. plus, he is saying his giferld should be locked up, not him. he is also blaming anti-semitism for him stealing $3 billion. mini thinks he should be back in his penthouse munching on some cucumbers and playing video games. mini madoff better get used do it because is he looking down the barrel of eight criminal charges which could put him away for over 150 years. so buckle up, mini. hide your kids, hide your pets, liberals are building a cougar bridge straight into the heart of los angeles. >> okay. this is [bleep] he is jess here at "primeti

he's right, this is not quite bernie madoff.'s what i'm hearing from people who watched his performance, some of my sources -- they think, if there is not a real innocent explanation and they give low odds that it is, what we are dealing with is someone who is mentally challenged, the synapses are not working because here is the thing. you could have a good business as a crypto exchange and if you take money out of that exchange and use it for gambling purposes it is hard to rationalize that as anything but illegal even if there is something in the user document, if you read hypothecate that money, or short-term cash that other stuff, if you use that money, someone else's money, and take it to gamble on your own it is called theft. that is where he is headed. my guess is a year from now this guy will be on trial for fraud, probably heading for jail because here's the other thing. all this stuff, yesterday, he actually said he didn't have any controls. didn't have a point person for risk management between the proposition trading

we saw it with madoff.paring the two directly financial fraud trial things to see where this goes. there were clawbacks with madoff assuming there are some, let's hope there are, how much roughly could ftx be look to re-capture through the bankruptcy process >> one tool available in the bankruptcy process is the claw bark w clawback provision to see if anything was improperly transferred or property given away that should be part of the bankruptcy estate the trustees have the ability to claw t clay claw that back some are fair game if the feds can establish the funds used from fraud which we know from the indictment that was unsealed on tuesday and they believe the alleged fraud goes back to the start of the exchange in 2019. there is the very specific 90-day window that is important to clawbacks any party who received funds in the three months prior to bankruptcy, trustees would be reviewing all regular payments made in the course of business over the 90-day window i'm told one issue for the agent lead and

funds like madoff they owe a lot of money to regular people.e widespread. madoff defrauded 3thousand counts. ftx claims 32 times that amount in the u.s. alone. according to ftx some 1.2 million retail traders -- >> crypto doesn't get a free pass because it is shiny and bright or because venture capitalists think it might change the world or tv campaigns are witty and featured famous people. elizabeth: byron, were you wondering why was he suddenly arrested before he could testify before congress about what he was doing, get him under oath so you could use that in the case against him? hes was all about effective altruism, phony woke capitalism people use their investor money for your political pet causes. that is what is happening in d.c.? were you surprised he was arrested right before he was to testify. >> i was surprised not the least of which because he was about to give a lot of testimony under oath that could be used in any prosecution against him. and then that whole thing was precluded by arresting him the night before. certainly members

. >> they will try to cut a deal similar what madoff got. this is what madoff did.imself in. he put up a 10 million-dollar bond, from what i understand. he wore an ankle gracelet, allowed to stay in his apartment in midtown manhattan essentially through the duration of his trial until he was put away. they're looking for the same thing here. but, in order to do that you will have to cooperate somewhat. tell the feds about the books and that's people close to that defense team are telling me is likely to happen. he is going to cooperate. he will try to get, direct them to where the money is. i don't know if he will rat himself out and confess to what went down here as he was charged for multiple counts, i think eight counts of fraud but you know that cooperation in exchange for a bail and maybe an ankle bracelet is kind of what they're looking at. i don't know where he would live? i don't think he has an apartment in new york. maybe his parent, are very well-connected particularly within democratic party circles, major democratic party heavyweights, both the mom and

do you know when the madoff bankruptcy was filed >> probably circa 2008. >> do you know they just made a distribution out of that bankruptcy last week >> that's what i understand, yes. >> so that's, what, 14 years how old are you? >> is that a question? >> because i want you to add 100 to whatever your age is when you finally untangle this. the reason i say that is we watched this ftx, but a bunch of other crypto companies start thrashing about say, nine, ten, twelve months ago. as the house of cards started falling down, the thrashes became more. we had something like that in colorado back in the '80s when the savings and loans were failing and everybody was sort of trading their funny money we called it trading cats for dogs to hide lousy loans, you know, to not show the failures of those particular banks. here, you know, your job, i think, as -- as the bankruptcy trustee or conservator or whatever you are, is to go gather as many assets as you can. and that could be from some very innocent people who got paid money to then spread it out equally among who you think the real creditors

fraud schemes. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah, i mean, i don't thinkle lost money. and people lost a lot of money, and, i mean, at the end of the day, look, there's a question of what happened and why and who did what. what caused the melt down, and i think that is -- reads very differently, right, when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business. ftx, that was a real business. >> reporter: ftx used celebrity endorsements from super stars like tom brady, naomi osaka, steph curry, even a super bowl ad featuring larry david, but the big names can't cloud questions as to whether ftx improperly used investors' money to make loans to his mhedge fun. >> i do not know there was improper use of customer funds. >> you also took out a $1 billion loan. what was that for? >> that was generally for reinvesting in the company. >> reporter: as investors ponder what's next, bankman-fried admits he didn't pay attention in a business that's based on trust. >> i wasn't spending any time or effort trying to manage risk on ftx, like, and that ob

. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah.t all. but i understand why they're saying that. people lost money. and people lost a lot of money. and, i mean -- at the end of the day, look -- there's a question of what happened and why, what caused the meltdown. and i think that reads very differently, right? when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business there. the whole thing was just one big ponzi scheme, right? ftx, that was a real business. >> reporter: he was at the top of the cryptocurrency world. 30-year-old billionaire sam bankman-fried. >> you just need ftx. >> ftx, a safe and easy way to get into crypto. >> yeah, i don't think so. >> super bowl ads. named stadiums. steph curry, gisele bundchen. >> we did a lot of things to try and bolster our reputation, to try and, you know, help our brand. >> reporter: in the early morning hours of november 11th, it all came to an end. when ftx filed for bankruptcy and bankman-fried stepped down as ceo amid reports of ftx customer funds being used to pay

i want to start with this, you are the lead witness for the koj in the madoff case. this case came together very quickly, especially when they didn't have the records that, you know, madoff had that folks were able to go through. so can you talk me through how prosecutors are building this case, were able to build this case? >> sure. kelly, great to be with you today. so one of the things that allow the prosecutors to build this case so quickly was the two co-conspirators that have already pled guilty, caroline ellison and gary wang. when you have two co-conspirators hard cooperating with the government -- that are cooperating with the government, that's a big factor for the prosecutors to get a jump-start on what they need to do. there's all kinds of information that they'll gather and have already been gathering from those co-conspirators to be used existence bankman-fried in the -- against bankman-fried in the criminal case can. and there's a lot of things those two the people can lead them too. and i'm sure they're talking to other employees as well. and there's

, maybe -- neil: bernie madoff also -- he didn't have to hang out.hat is what i am saying. this is where it gets funky for me. they wanted him to be talking to you. he admitted to everything unlike sam bankman-fried. to show where the bodies are buried, to claw the money back, the deal, making something whole and the bernie madoff victims, a lot of them were made whole in terms of initial investment and bankruptcy, half the size of the ponzi scheme like it was $50 billion ponzi scheme, something like $25 billion back so people were able to become mostly whole on their initial investment and they did a bike lying back people who took out the gains like the former owner of the mets got gains like 10% a year or whatever it was. he had to give a lot of that back, hundreds of millions of dollars. they were involved. you would want the guy helping with that. i don't know why they need sam bankman-fried. 's girlfriend his girlfriend, his ex, carolyn, who was running of the alameda fund, the side hustle to the exchange that took the money. not that important

i got off a phone with a lead witness in the madoff case.ys the conspiracy to commit wire fraud on lenders we could see some coconspiracy tort named soon. we should be onlook out for that. the big question is on the timing of these charges. he was supposed to testify before the house financial services committee today and face intense questioning. instead he was at a bahamian court hearing. the house committee instead heard shocking revelations from new ceo, john j. ray iii complete lack of controls, misuse of customer funds. prosecutors safe the charges were drawn up last wednesday and not filed until seal on friday. it is true sbf did not agree to testify until the end of last week but there is a lot of speculation from critics how convenient the arrest timing on the hearings eve that he didn't have to answer intense questioning on funding source of those political donations. kind of interesting, liz. we'll find out, right? elizabeth: he could have been on the record under oath. that information that he said under oath could have been used

madoff got a long sentence. i think over 100 years. he died in prison.bankman-fried has to be worried that the government wants to make a symbol out of him, too. he should hope to plead quickly and get a reduced plea. maybe mental illness. maybe plead he didn't understand what was going on. he should never go to trial. that would be a disaster for him. >> neil: he's a younger man, 35 years younger when madoff was in the same position. if found guilty, he too could end up in jail the rest of his life. john yoo, thanks very much. >> thanks, neil. >> neil: taking a look at wall and just a broad sell-off. as bad as it was, it was a lot worse. but the freefall continues. forget as santa rallied. someone has been following this through rallies and recessions alike. teddy wiseburg, the guy on the right is an institution. with the selling going off, he probably wants to check into one. we'll ask after this. charging something like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the

he makes bernie madoff look like a saint.ean, when you look at the recovery of assets from that ponzi scheme, i believe, like, 88% of investors' principal, not the gapes because the gains were always fake anyways, but 88% of the madoff ponzi scheme principal was returned to investors. who knows how much -- probably nothing -- is going to be to returned in this unfortunate situation. but, rook -- look, to back up, bitcoin, etherium, i think with regards to hose two, those two seem to be halfwaying decent asset classes. i think when you start to get into the lesser known coins, that's where i think investors are probably going to shy away from those for quite some time. david: so it might end up being a good thing, really separating the wheat from the chaff. the companies that will remain are the strong companies which hold the coins -- >> yes. david: -- they don't trade the coins or do any hanky-panky like ftx was up to. >> yeah. you remember all that doing coin buzz from a couple years ago. all of these made-up coins, you kno

i got off a phone with a lead witness in the madoff case, he shared the wire fraud and money launderingges will be easiest to prove especially with a ton of evidence that new ftx management is bringing forth that campaign finance charge, that one is quite interesting. what sbf and others are accused of is fraudulently donating under other names as work around to the political contribution limits. we know he already donated nearly $40 million. this means that figure could be even larger. also crossing this morning are cftc and sec charges. the latter complaint alleging that sam bankman-fried orchestrate ad scheme to defraud its equity investors to the tune of 1.8 billion. a big question on everyone's mind, if and when is he going to be extradited? so a source inside the fdny, no extradition motion is made at this time t will likely take a while although the bahamian authorities shared this, a quote from press release at such a time formal request for extradition is made, bahamas will process promptly pursuant to bahamian law and with treaty with the united states. they are willing to pla

is sam bankman-fried a minnie-madoff?d him. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff. >> yeah. i mean i don't think that's who i am at all. the whole thing as i understand it, i think was just one big ponzi scheme, right? ♪. even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to getrefunds.com to get started. powered by innovation refunds. the world is full of make or break moments. especially if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture, it's time to make your move to help reduce your risk of fracture with prolia. only prolia is proven to help strengthen and protect bones from fracture with one shot every six months. do not take prolia if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it, or take xgeva. serious allergi

. >> a lot of people look at you and see bernie madoff? >> yeah: i mean, i don't think that is who i am at all. but i understand why they're saying that. people lost money. and people lost a lot of money. and, i mean, at the end of the day, look, there is a question of what happen and why and who did what. what caused the meltdown and i think that is -- reads very differently. when you look at the classic bernie madoff story, there was no real business there. the whole thing, as i understand it, i think, was just one big ponzi scheme, right. ftx, that was a real business. >> also not just that but also can people get their money back? what is the chance that anybody does? was it a real business? >> invoices via slack. people may be able to get some money back. there are coins an assets that were at one point associated with ftx. will they get all of their money back. probably not. er you look at the spending and they can't keep track of where this money went. i will say something about bernie madoff, i covered him extensively and he had ve

we learned it the hard way with bernie madoff. don't learn it the hard way in your life, right, liz? liz: i know there's a spread between ftx and blackstone, but that is -- charles: bottom line is if someone needs their money right now they can't get it. liz: i don't like that idea. thank you so much. all right if this were a two- game series between the bulls & bears we're calling it bulls 1, bears i don't know, tied at the half? as we kickoff the final hour of trade the bears have their clues in the dow which is down 153 points right now, bus this is kind of like one of those auburn -ohio state games back and forth with the s&p and the nasdaq both s&p and nasdaq are now in the green. this action is particularly riveting after yesterday's smashing performance, right here , during this hour, right? with the dow, a gain of 737 points, which hauled it out of its bear market. the blue chips as i said down just about half a percent but good deal of the red paint 90 points of it coming courtesy of salesforce. this is the biggest laggar

madoff was a mastermind. he worked sole hoe to create this facade eventually took a life on its own. he enthralled wall street. bankman-fried is more creation in my mind of wall street and silicon valley. you know, the thing that is really happening right now that is starting to come out somehow for me at least the system has been robbing the public in some ways particularly through the ipo system but i think they became overconfident. i think they became careless. ended upbeating them to a degree. make no mistakes, fat cats are not the victims here. yesterday after a rollicking affair at house financial services committee a lot of different things emerged except what i wanted to hear. i want to bring in congressman warren davidson. congressman, sbf didn't show up. he was arrested the day before. many are frustrated, that he would have yielded great information, maybe perjured himself even more, what happened actually at the hearing yesterday, just the notion just by coincidence he didn't show up because he w

neil: it is different from the bernie madoff case, if there was any exposure to ftx, anything that took it on the chin, a large part because of this investigation of bankruptcy, you have a larger case to make against the guy. >> you definitely do and a lot of people who are most angry with him, in the interview we talked about that, how you need to segment funds for spot traders versus margin traders, but between ftx international. not a sharp dividing line. and and he's gambling with us citizens funds. neil: do you think he goes to jail the rest of his life. >> i think so. made off got one hundred 50 and you don't want to be the subject of the government setting an example. so many crosshairs and attention on him that to do anything other than throwing the book at him would be bad optic so i think he spent the rest of his life in jail or an extended amount of his life behind bars in white-collar facility. neil: you have been a big help figuring this craziness out. and potential criminality as well. taking a look at developments of what is happening in the economy and highflying compani

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i spoke with the lead forensic accounting expert in the made off -- bernie madoff case. know that ftx, little to no record-keeping. investigators have to reconstruct what was originally there and what is now missing. then everything is there again, to determine where assets went and who moved them. i'm talking phone records, text messages, bank transfers, former ceo is accused of fraudulently lending customer assets to alameda research so investigators will look for a single email or signed document that show he knew what was going on and he spoke at a twitter space and reveals in the beginning of the fallout he was on the phone with caroline constantly so investigators will be looking at transcript of things like that and to see of corporate profits were cashed out to buy these lavish purchases or donate to campaigns. if so everything is subject to being clawed back like in the bernie madoff case. >> we have to find out where were the airplanes, where did the money go? all of that was attached by the trustee and liquidated and brought back to pay the victims of that fra

bernie madoff doing what he did, was investigating, the greatest ponzi scheme ever.tion sounds good and if you start regulating these things, you might be improving their bad deeds because there's a lot of hidden stuff in all this crypto. this debate we are having now for a while including as republicans take the one hundred eighth congress, i want to switch gears and talk about layoffs in wall street because everyone is talking about it, all my sources, for morgan stanley, bank of america, jpmorgan, goldman sachs, they are trying to avoid mass layoffs. we have 5% of the underperformers, probably laid off. we will see a vast reduction in bonuses as much as 50%. if you're in the m and a department you will get a lower bonus, a large degree of attrition, trying to do jobs they think they can get away with it. that is most of the firms. there is one firm that is an exception to that and that is credit suisse for a lot of reasons we are reporting, it is a troubled bank. the credit default swaps went through the roof as people thought -- it is not troubled but they are go

you usually cut these deals with these guys like bernie madoff. madoff admitted to everything.deal with the feds to keep him out of jail. he gave them $10 million, which was nothing. he was helping people find where those funds are. they don't need this guy to help them find the funds. first of all, they're probably gone, just gambled away. this is a big story. it's a weird side story to this whole thing, why people in power are still being nice to this guy. it is bizarre. >> tucker: a million people defrauded by sam bankman-fried. >> absolutely. the next jpmorgan. those names were hysterical, by the way. ha-ha-ha. >> tucker: carnegie, harriman! no, a prison inmate. charlie, great to see you. >> you too, pal. >> tucker: thank you. in order for your healthcare system to work, you have to have sane doctors. most are sane. some aren't sane. alex berenson may have found the angriest, nuttiest doctor in all of medicine, someone mocking fentanyl victims and people who suffer from vaccine injuries. huh? he joins us now. hi, i'm michael, i've lost 70 pounds on golo. i spent thousands o

just compare that to bernie madoff's bail which was only $10 million after his $50 billion ponzi schemeid he was poor. he only had $100,000 in his bank account but somehow he was able to buy his way to short-term freedom where he will be staying with his parents until his next court date. but he shouldn't get too comfortable. of the crypto scam artist is facing eight criminal charges that can put him away for over 150 years. and former executives from ftx are already flipping on him like his exgirlfriend caroline ellison just last night pled guilty to the charges that could put her away for up to 110 years. she is cooperating with the feds to help them incriminate sam bankman-fried. so, is luck running out for the democrats' second largest donor? let's bring in "new york post" business reporter lydia moynahan for more. all right, lydia, what can you tell us new about this? >> sam bankman-fried is still living a pretty good life. he actually flew private from the bahamas to west chester and then today he was let out on $250 million bail. as you mentioned, just a few weeks ago he said he

is the ceos, the bernie madoffs. that's what sam bankman-fridays.painting yourself as an innocent party when you abscond to the bahamas with billions of dollars which is what he has done. what we are seeing is the gears of justice turning, they will grind down sam bankman-fried regardless of his millions in campaign contributions to the democratic party. hopefully justice prevails and he blamed the lawyers but at the end of the day, sam bankman-fridays in handcuffs. stuart: you are confident we will find out what happened and where the money went you are confident we will get to the bottom of it eventually. >> you saw how quickly this indictment was announced, very fast when it comes to security exchange approaches and likely his ex-girlfriend, the person who ran the slush fund alameda is dropping the dime on sam bankman-fried. stuart: net choice, good stuff, thanks for being with us, see you again soon. the chairman of the sec, gary gensler, updated his public calendar to leave out mentions of high profile meetings. who did he leave out? lauren: so

there aren't that many people when it was bernie madoff. people understand how stocks are traded.understand the crypto exchanges and the way it's organized and that's helping sbf argue it was too complicated and it got out of control and he didn't know what was going on. >> dana: i would put myself in that category. i have been trying to understand crypto. it has never totally sunk in. until this story. now i start to realize okay, so the shell game he was playing or appears to have been playing is one that ultimately lost people a lot of money and it's a real shame. he will come to capitol hill, i believe that. thank you for being here today. >> thanks. >> bill: thank you, clay. so-called triple dem i can pushing hospitals to the brink. will it force some cities in america to bring back the mandatory mask? at newday usa we give veterans the va cash out loan with no upfront costs for an appraisal or termite inspection. no upfront costs at all. let us get your family security of cash in the bank. [sfx: cards shuffling] this holiday, weathertech gift cards are perfect for people to

brian i look at this and think back to bernie madoff. madoff did lie to his investors. sbf is just going to say i didn't lie. i was the benefactor of bad luck. >> conspiracy requires two people to form an agreement to commit the fraud. why is that important? because the u.s. prosecutors know who the other person is on the four of these counts so i expect further indictments. in fact the prosecutor came out an said if you know you were involved in this come to us before we come to you. that's critical. and look. in terms of any defense he's got in this case and he's got to argue that i may have misled investors but i didn't intentionally lie about it because that's require. he has to lie to deceive them and he's going to argue these were 90 mostly private equity groups. these are more intelligent investors and they had their own due diligence to look into the integrity of this investment. that's going to be his defense. >> what do you make of the timing of this defense? we thought he's going to testify before congress an last night there he is in handcuffs not testifying

this is the 14th anniversary of the bernie madoff fraud in the news and now ftx i think will dwarf anythinguld not recommend people invest in cryptocurrency if they don't have the money to risk because i don't think it's a clear and well regulated market. it is an experiment and sophisticated people themselves gave money to ftx and lost that money. >> right. but what about oversight then? is congress going to do more to crack down? >> two comments there. one i think there are existing securities laws and commodities laws that should have been put in place and could have done more to protect investors veto ftx. congress i believe you will see a bipartisan effort to define a digital asset and we have made strides at that this fall with work by maxine waters with mchenry of north carolina to regulate stable coins. >> i want to turn to kevin mccarthy. it's still a lot up in the air for next month when republicans have the majority of the house. mike gallagher of wisconsin said that republicans will get there on kevin mccarthy. what do you think? do you think he can get the 218 votes he needs co

ftx and alameda represent the most spectacular corporate downfall since the ponzi scheme of bernie madoff. the cryptocurrency represents the largest ponzi scheme in history. in fact,, by the time the dust settles, crypto may well represent a fraud at least 10 times bigger than madoff. >> what do you think? is crypto heading to the crypt? >> it had a tremendously negative effect. bitcoin is still selling for thousands of dollars. they projected this was the future of finance. it would replace fiat. as this trump nft collection shows, when prices start to go up, there will always be people willing to gamble they are on the right side of the bubble. >> no truer words have been spoken. that might be understatement of the year in certain regards there when it comes to talking about trump and crypto for that matter. john, thanks very much. we appreciate it. >>> airline travel demand is soaring. perhaps you've noticed that. the skies seem to be getting less friendly for passengers. they are pulling back on perks like access to airport lounges and redeeming frequent flyer miles. pete muntean expl

i bring that last part up because of the bernie madoff trial and i am only bringing that up because ithat moved quickly because we often forget that madoff wasn't caught he confessed his sons turned him in he confessed it was cut and dry assuming mr. sam bankman-fried, renato, i have a degree, but i'm not a lawyer setting up a dumb businessman defense. i'm just bad at business i'm not a crook. assuming he goes down that path, how long could this take years? >> it could take years if he wants to stretch it out. in other words, most defendants don't want to rush to get the speedy trial that the constitution gives them. they want to take their time they want to delay they want to prepare a defense this is a complicated case a lot of discovery and documents produced to his lawyers whoever they end up being. i suspect this to take time. i would not expect a trial until 2024 or early 2024 i doubt that will happen that's the defense he is trying to set up. i was incompetent. i was inattentive. i'm not a fraudster. i'm just very inattentive and incompetent. i don't think it is very compelling

it is many multiples of the $10 million that bernie madoff put up.infamous ponzi schemer during the financial crisis. there is a lot of wiggle room. his parents are putting up houses. they have a mystery donor putting up something. we should point out the bankruptcy are plugged into major democratic donors. i wouldn't be surprised if those people that his mother actually has raised money from put up some of this money or at least put up their house. i don't think it's direct cash. i really think it's assets that they are starting to impound. the question becomes, you know, he stays in his house. does he help the prosecutors find the missing money? and how much help he gets will -- gives will likely determine how long he stays in the klinker. there is no doubt he is going to jail. you may not have intents to rip off people as it went down with the ftx trading system and a subsidiary hedge fund that took money out of the crypto exchange and blew it but there is something called willful negligence. if you ignore obvious shortcomings in your regulations

is beyond anyone's expectations 2009 when bernie madoff was free it was 10 million-dollar bond.he 250 million-dollar bond to be posted by sbf, as he is known, to be free here in new york, only to travel to california he should be living with his parents. his parent, both stanford law professors in palo alto. he is supposed to according to the judge live there, be here in the southern district of new york or eastern district of new york. those are the only options until another hearing set for third of january. that is the expected development. we expect sam bankman-fried to be walking out the doors any moment now, neil. free on bail. it's a bail number we haven't seen anytime before. 250 million-dollar bond. neil: he has some money. wild stuff. connell, that was great. thanks for summing it up so neatly. connell mcshane outside manhattan federal courthouse. corner of wall and broad, all major averages down. no hope right now for the santa rally at least today goes. let's go to my friend charles payne to take -- charles: he came up with 250 million. reminds me of every time i bor

jose, think like madoff. we're playing a a little catch up because of the crypto industry.cates things here. as the u.s. attorney said, one of the biggest frauds in history, and they are throwing the book at him. he's going to become a poster child soon for the collapse of the threats that the whole industry faces because he was one of the faces of it. so he's in a world of hurt for sure. >> it's interesting because has it come kind of late in the game precisely because this is such a new industry? >> it is the shiny new thing. some would say it's early in the game. if you pierce through the core of the indictment, they are trying to make it very basic, old fashioned fraud, which is what happened with madoff. i think early in the dpam in the sense of this is going to spark an outcry to regulate the industry. right now, it's sort of the wild west out there. >> interesting. gretchen, federal prosecutors saud yesterday the investigation is far from over. could we see potentially others caught up this this probe? >> definitely, jose. there were other executives in the inner cir

people are treating this like they did with bernie madoff. >> it should be, he is mini madoff.oblem here. crypto is not the problem. this guy is a scammer. that's what he did. his words, i think, are the most revealing. so leaked text messages indicated that he talked with friends and said we woke westerners. we say the right and then everybody loves us. so all of his donations, $40 million to democratic candidates and organizations second largest democratic donor real story, not smirkiness not decentralization at all. >> will: tiktok quickly as we can discuss tiktok, mounting wave of momentum against tiktok. numerous state governments and governors not on your work issued phone. auburn university has said no more tiktok as well. tiktok is trying to get back into good graces to some extent. there is some efforts -- there is an agreement for oracle to store data of users in the u.s. so outsourcing data storage. u.s. division to oversee data protection. they are proposing to form a proxy war that would run tiktok away from by bytedance. part of me wants to ask you can tiktok put

>> listen, there have been instances of this sort of stuff, not madoff. where people got money back. remember the mf global blowup. run by a former governor and senator from new jersey. he ran this thing where there was co-mingling of funds and it was a big mess. they had to declare bankruptcy. people started pulling money out and they went to bankruptcy. when they sorted it out everybody got their money back. this is a little different because -- >> bill: you said he is going to jail. >> this is a little different. what he was doing on the side hustle, what was going on was gambling wickedly. corzine wasn't doing that. they were losing money and that's different than this. i don't know if the money is there. >> bill: how long did it take before they busted bernie madoff. >> he turned himself in. it was an ongoing thing. he forced himself to turn himself in. what was happening it was a ponse scheme. you have to replace it with new money when people pull it out. no more money and people were withdrawing it. he was exposed and came forward. this is a little

this is the officer got bernie madoff, this is the office that gets all the money laundrie mailboxesr relentless. >> i think it has to know at this point that is goose is cooked, i really do not believe that federal prosecutors would have brought all these charges, and by the way, the fcc and cftc, all the, same time massive effort, tons of people involved, and some people i've worked for many years, have devoted, clearly, many hours to this. they would've not put their reputations on the line unless they thought that because on him. very broad charges very early on. i think it's like any decades in prison, and given how sake why, as you mentioned the interviews he was giving, i really think he has to be thinking about potentially taking responsibility, and trying to cooperate against his coconspirators. >> why was we doing all these interviews? we have bigger and bigger problems mounting. if you listen to the current ceo talking about it fact of the no independent. board there was absolutely no oversight. on what planet was this man, living a five-year, email, me call me, he did an

but we have seen in the cases like a bernie madoff where people sort of built a ponzi scheme.y of this sound to you like that? >> yeah, it sounds very much like that and you know, bernie madoff, it is interesting that you mentioned that because i think that is the classic case not only of the kind of scheme where if you're an investigator this is the kind of thing that you would be looking at but also the fact is, that you know, he got, if my memory serves, neil, he got over a quarter of a century imprisonment beyond that. that was because the sentencing guidelines for this kind of fraud, once you prove that it is fraud and the dollar amounts just zoom the sentencing guidelines in a very exorbitant way. so you know the first issue is, to get over the hump, was there knowing fraud? if there was, the dollars add up pretty quickly which is why people are talking about hefty jail sentences. it is not, you know, on balance it is not a violent crime. it is not something you think of as the hammer really comes down on people but the way the federal sentencing guidelines in particular