the last two w guys james madis. he is born in 1751 and then he8. dies in 1836, 85 years old. so he has seen the fight over missouri being in a bid to the union. he sees the nullification crisi crisis. i but he is the last one. aronberg dies after he does, but that's sort of the other side. >> host: in 2006, you wrote, what would the founders do w. w. s. d.he f in that book, you write thetion founders inviters questions now because they invited discussion when they live. they were argumentative, expansive know what else hanging their ideas out to dry in public speeches and a journalist on. up >> guest: well, that's right.'rr they set up a republican arend very proud of doing that. this is unique virtually unique in the world. you know, there's his cantons, hollins had been a kind of a ubes of a republic but that was publice form of government, and compared to all the competitors, month no, okays and whatnot, it's open. it's based on popular rule and, yes, of course, the franchise was restricted but still there is a franchise. so, voters, the electorate, has to be appealed to,