magnitsky, mr. browder's lawyer, uncovered the fraud and was eventually jailed and died under very suspicious circumstances. worked with the u.s. congress to pass the magnet seek to punishitsky act the officials involved with this and other human rights abuses. would you please stand serve, and -- do you swear -- let me start again. the you confirm that the testimony you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> thank you, i would like to have you take several minutes, if you can -- we would like to save time for questions. -- so let's say, seven to eight minutes. grassley, ranking member feinstein, and the committee, thank you for giving me this opportunity to tell my story about russian -- about the , the vladimirgn putin campaign to repeal the magnitsky act in washington dc. i am william browder, founder and ceo of hermitage capital management, once the largest foreign investment advisor in capacity, iin that

>> well, he's a potential magnitsky designee person who should be targeted under the magnitsky act. and given that he and his family are very wealthy people, they would potentially be very exposed to being added to the magnitsky list. >> and finally, natalia veselnitskaya was not just any russian picked from a crowd. she was vladimir putin's point person in trying to repeal the magnitsky act. his prime foreign policy interest, correct? >> that's how i see it. >> thank you. >> senator durbin? >> thank you, mr. browder. are you familiar with mchale fridman of alpha bank? >> i am. >> what do you know about him? >> he's one of the original 22 oligarchs who became rich in russia from banking oil, telecommunications and other businesses. >> you say that in the year 2003 when vladimir putin decided to make a -- or have a show trial with mr. core acoversky it was a thinly veiled message to the oligarchs, either play ball with me or you'll sit in a cage like he did? >> yes. >> and then vladimir putin is reported to have flown to london to either celebrate or note the merger of mchale fridman

>> the magnitsky act. it was passed retaliating the adoption of russian orphans. >> and that is tied to sanctions?. >> indeed. you are not talking about adoption. nobody was talking about adoption they were taught about the repeal of sanctions. >> adoption is code to talk about lifting sanctions. >> correct. >> i cannot speak to their friend of mind to imagine they would not?. >> i could say that nobody was talking about adoption. >> you have had to sleuth to go through lot of this stuff fire investigators and then to describe that investigative work we have a phrase follow the money how was that's influencing elections?. >> bad is the key to these situations. >> how useful are tax returns as a tool to follow the money as you described?. >> so anything or nt foreign policy will tell you what. >> but if an american has been engaged or to file tax returns than they would provide evidence of those connections?. >> presumably if they have full disclosure in the area of interest. >> debut said addressing these

and in the case of the magnitsky crime, the $230 million that sergei magnitsky exposed in the russian government, we've been able to trace some of that money going to an account of a nominee of putin. so therefore putin would have the money he keeps offshore, the money he keeps in u.s. banks frozen and seized. which is why he's so upset about this. we're well-versed and knowledgeable about the ongoing activities going on in moscow. the collusion subject. have you formed an opinion as to whether that meets with his pattern of practice? >> well what we know is that putin is a kgb operative. he understands there are only two ways to deal with people in his world view. one is by bribing people, and the other is by blackmailing or extorting people. and so they would have approached this meeting with donald trump with, either an offer or a threat. we don't know what that offer was or what that threat was. and whether it was in any way successful. but we do know how putin operates. >> bill browder, thank you so much. stay safe. >>> thank you. >>> coming up, live comments from president trump

sergei magnitsky was my lawyer.red a huge corruption scheme in russia and he was then arrested, tortured and killed 7 1/2 years ago. i went to congress and told them the story about how sergei uncovered this $230 million corruption scheme and how he was killed over it and that led to the passage of the magnitsky act. why does putin hate it so much? he hates it because we have recently tracked some of that $230 million that sergei was killed over to a nominee to vladimir putin. i should point out that vladimir putin is one of the richest men this the world. i believe that he has $200 billion that he's gotten through all sorts of kleptocratic scams in his 17 years in power. and that money is held all over the world in places in america, in england and other places. he's afraid that his own personal money will be frozen under the magnitsky act. as a result, this becomes his personal priority and because he's the president of russia it becomes russia's priority. >> so the distinction is sometimes when we think of sancti

officials then went on to accuse the russian government of being complicit in the death of magnitsky impose sanctions on russia however russia denies any wrongdoing in the case now since then browder his goal has been to punish russia for magnitsky is death and he lobbied to pass the magnitsky act now and then tell you a vessel in its sky says that the magnitsky act is what she went to discuss with donald trump jr that was what she went to discuss at the meeting with donald trump jr however she says that bill browder his painting the meeting as an example of collusion or somehow the trump campaign having worked with russia out of a personal vendetta against her she recently defeated him in court and she says now this is this is revenge this is what she had to say to our team. well i'm sure that i will just quit when testifying right more this group had been prepared for him before he had and it was already posted on the atlantic accurate in what i read the transcript carefully there is nothing new in there he has already said all those things before and i can tell you with certainty

he's been doing various things against me and against the magnitsky act in that process. and one of those things was this natalia veselnitskaya approach to donald trump jr. >> do you think that from what we understand about the way that those e-mailstranspired, rob go goldstone, do you think that this was something all directed straight from the top by vladimir putin? or do you think that it was something else entirely? >> no, this is absolutely directed straight from the top. we know for sure that the general prosecutor of russia who is the most important law enforcement official was intimately involved in this particular incident and in the planning of this communication, and he is the closest associate of vladimir putin. this is yuri chika, the general prosecutor of russia. it is nonsense to say this was an independent lawyer who wanted to have a discussion on this issue. this was directed at the highest level from the kremlin because there is something vladimir putin cares very deeply and personally about. >> bill, when we think about the individuals affected, the mag

explain. >> so sergei magnitsky as you mentioned was my lawyer.e uncovered a massive government corruption scheme of $230 million stolen from the russian government. vladimir putin was one of the beneficiaries of that theft. when magnitsky exposed the crime, he was subsequently arrested, put in pretrial detention, tortured for 358 days and murdered in prison by russian guards at the age of 37. 7 1/2 years ago. i have made it my life's mission since then to go after the people who killed him to make sure they face justice. that's where we ended up with the magnitsky act which is an act of congress that was passed in 2012 which imposes visa sanctions and asset freezes on the people who killed sergei and the people who do similar types of things in russia. putin is very afraid his money and he's got lots of it will be eventually seized under the magnitsky act which is why he's so interested in having it repealed. >> so this is all about putin's personal finances is what you're saying. trump we know and putin talked for about an hour or so at that g20

>> well, the way i view this is that the putin regime wanted this magnitsky act repealed.hey sent her to america to do a lot of different things, not just this trump jr. meeting. they were also all over the halls of congress. they somehow got into this trump jr. meeting. they had a specific ask, which was getting rid of the magnitsky sanctions and probably came up with a specific offer for that meeting. we don't know what the offer was, but we know what the ask was. >> but you're saying there would have been an offer. so let me ask you this because you were instrumental in getting the magnitsky act passed. it is something vladimir putin is obsessed by, right? he brought up his own retaliation to it, the ban on russian adoptions to the united states with the president at the g-20. in your prepared remarks, you write you have received death threats from russia. the most notable may be from the russian prime minister who said that according to you, quote, it is too bad that magnitsky is dead and bill browder is still alive and free. do you really think that the russian govern

a because of the death of his accountant magnitsky in russia. he lobbied very strongly the u.s. congress and to go after human rights abusers in russia who he believed had killed magnitsky and were a part of the putin regime and he persuaded congress to do so. now, so, i think we can surmise that what natalya was talking about were hedge fund contributions associated with bill browder's financial business. but rinat says he didn't see the folder. he didn't work on it. he doesn't know the contents of the folder beyond what natalya told him. can i take a step back here? to some extent this is all sort of fascinating little details about who was at the meeting. but there is one key witness here who the versions you would think would be focused on. that's rob goldstone. he's the author of the e-mails. he's the one who said the russian government was wanted to impart this information to help the trump campaign. he's the one who said they were helping him do so. he's the one that works for them. he's the publicist for emen. it seems to me he is the ob

they thought this meeting was about something else and it turned out to be about magnitsky. what are the chances that there was nothing going on at this meeting of any import? >> well, it's impossible to know what's going on at the meeting and i wouldn't want to speculate about, but i know the russians. i know them very well. we've been at odds with them for a long time. i've been fight withing with the putin regime. they go and offer something. so there was clearly -- they wanted something. they wanted sanctions, magnitsky sanctions to be repealed, and they would have come with some type of offer. and whatever they were offering, apparently, wasn't interesting. that's what was going on there. they had a kwid proco. they know exactly how to do business. the russians either offer financial rewards or other types of rewards or they extort people. and they were there either to offer rewards or threaten -- >> all right. bill, thanks. i'm having -- we're just having some audio problems, so we're going to try and reset that. and if we can, i'm going to get back to you, but we got

and a meeting about adoption in our parlance is about magnitsky.the center of this, he's spent the last few years really pitching in washington and around the world, frankly. for moscow, this meeting was never about adoptions, or even the magnitsky act for that matter. it was about getting documentary evidence that the trump team was ready and willing to take part in what could be called collusion. as soon as donald trump jr. sent back that e-mail saying i love it, especially later in the summer, that was what moscow was going for the whole time. that was the intelligence jackpot that they sought. >> so, in other words, steven, they reel you in that way. they offer something up and you say, hey, i'm into it. now you're in some fashion or other into it. >> well, that's what they do if they're trying to recruit an agent. what we don't know here is whether these people were actually engaged in that kind of enterprise. or whether they were pursuing the interests of their clients. you know, a lot of the people who were under sanctions in the magnitsky a

let's talk about the magnitsky act.ons on the magnitsky act. it affects some 44 russians right now. why is this such a big deal for vladimir putin? >> vladimir putin is, for 17 years, he's been taking lots of money from russia. he's one of the richest men in the world now. we have been able to trace, from the crime that sergey magnitsky exposed a tax rebate fraud and we have been able to trace that money from a man exposed in panama papers and putins trustee or nominee. putin has gotten some of the money. because he's gotten some of the money, that means all of putin's money in the west is potentially exposed and could be vladimir putin that he doesn't want his money frozen. >> your book "red notice," i read a couple years ago, it's fascinating to read that given what's happened now. the lawyer and lobbyist who met with don trump jr. as well as paul manafort and jared kushner, what do you think they were up to? >> the lawyer, natalia veselnitskaya. she works for a russian alagark. he works for russian state railway, one

my lawyer magnitsky exposed it. he was taken into custody, tortured for 358 days and killed seven years ago at the age of 37 and i've been on a mission to get justice for him ever since. >> martha: how does all of that lead to the meeting that was recently uncovered in this email chain between natalia veselnitskaya and donald trump junior? >> it became clearer that i wasn't going to get any justice in russia because it's such a corrupt country, so i sought to get justice outside of russia and instead of the justice i sought to get, was to freeze the assets and ban the visas of the people who were involved in the murder of magnitsky and the people who do similar crimes. i took this idea to the u.s. congress in 2010 and it ended up becoming the magnitsky law in 2012, and it opposes visa sanctions and asset freezes on human rights violators from russia. vladimir putin is absolutely furious and handed up making it his single largest foreign policy priority to stop it. the other thing that we did was we tracked down the

then he learned magnitsky act. he had a one hour conversation and he learned it is about the magnitsky act. >> so he wasn't aware of the conversations in the e-mail with rob goldstone and donald trump jr. about the russian government highly sensitive information and support for donald trump? >> they didn't see that information until it was tweeted publically a couple days ago. >> why did the family only set up the meeting, right, that they didn't have any role in the content of the meeting was going to be about. why then did they have two representatives inside that meeting? >> they had one representative that was iek cav latte. mr. gold stone was also there -- >> he's a public relations representatives. there is no question that he is a representative of family. >> he was also facilitating the meeting. threfs there for that purpose. the meeting was between the russian lawyer and the trump campaign folks and everybody else there was just as far as we know there to facilitate the meeting, make sure it happened and s

magnitsky's uncovering. another russian american lobbyist, the "new york times" recently decried him as a master of the dark arts. these two were reportedly at a meeting with the trump family and made a pitch to get around the magnitsky act. was it a clumsy bait-and-switch effort in their unregistered propaganda campaign? hopefully we'll get answers from mr. trump and mr. manafort on that point we will pursue details about the creation and circulation of the dossier that started this whole controversy knowing exactly who was acting on behalf of the russian government is vital to get to the bottom of russian influence in our democratic system, that is why fara must be enforced consistently and even handedly. in other words, it won't be taken seriously. i look forward to discussing with the witnesses additional steps to better enforce fara and now it's my pleasure to turn the table over to my ranking member. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. thank you for bringing everybody up to date on our discussion on

she said she wanted to discuss the reputation of one particular man and his association with the magnitsky along with his past time of lobbying for u.s. sanctions on russian individuals this person who she says has most of mine did this latest russia trying collusion scandal. today i have to think about my safety first and foremost about the safety of my family my four children it's been revealed that mr browder has been gathering information about me so who is william browder maybe not a familiar name for most but for storage he's in russia he's a wanted man quite literally he's wanted for tax fraud on top of this leaked us state department e-mails reveal that brown it was actively gathering information about the vessel and its guy ahead of when this scandal broke and that included personal details such as where she lives so given this information in beslan it's seems quite convinced that browder has harbored a personal vendetta against her perhaps something to do with the facts that he once lost a case in court to her now this was a two thousand and thirteen case in which a vessel in its

and i want is best known for is his role in the magnitsky act this is an x. named asta a russian lawyer who was once employed by brown as company in russia he was later arrested in connection with a tux fraud case and he died was being held in detention browder later played a major role in law being for a set of sanctions to be imposed by the us on the number of russian individuals over magnitsky death brought it claims he knew magnitsky personally but according to vesa lipsky this couldn't be further from the truth and this is where i don't try and do nia enters the picture and the big question for many is why does us the next guy was so keen to inform the trunk team about the millionaire or say well brought his reputation will slip the story of this was the story that i brought to donald trump jr i wanted him to know that browder a person who gave up his us citizenship is trying to manipulate people in congress and now we even know their names the media have disclosed them he was making all those connections even though he hadn't lived in the country for tw

on the magnitsky act or on other sanctions. this is what we have to investigate. >> and you've written your letters? >> yes. there's a lot of suggestive things here, but we don't know these to be fact, but they're highly suggestive and we have to investigate this. and we've written a whole series of very specific questions to the justice department. did the justice department involve itself? did the trump campaign or the trump presidency get involved in this at all? maybe not, but we have to investigate. >> congressman, thanks so much for joining us. >> appreciate it. >>> a close reading of the e-mail donald trump jr. made public raises a very intriguing question. >> was there also a phone call about the information the russians wanted to pass on to the trump team? we'll be back. you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet. you know what's not awesome? when only certain people can get it. let's fix that. let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids. and these guys. him. ah. oh hello- that lady. these houses! yes, yes and yes

request to kill the magnitsky act? >> he says he's got no firsthand knowledge of that but says the russians would not have asked for that to be repealed if they did not have something to give in return. >> thanks very much. that's it for me. erin burnett outfront starts right now. >>> outfront next, breaking news, president trump's new communications director in a profanity war of words going after top aids in the white house. who will be the last man standing? sglrchlgs after seven years of broken promises, could republicans repeal parts of obamacare tonight. we're live for this crucial vote. >>> and a bill with punishing new sanctions on russia headed to the president's desk. can he afford to veto it? let's go outfront. >> the breaking news white house war. the white house in total turmoil and chaos in a sense tonight thanks to communications director anthony scaramucci. threatening to fire the entire white house communications team. his reason, well, a reporter at the magazine found out that scaramucci had dinner wi

did he ask president trump to repeal the magnitsky act?n people speak about adoptions, what they mean is repeal of the magnitsky act, because the adoption ban by russia was a tit for tat, although it wasn't a symmetric response but it was a response for the magnitsky act. >> i'm curious, because the president himself said interestingly this is what don jr. discussed at the meeting. so if you say this is kind of code speak when you say they're talking about adoptions but what they're really talking about is this whole issue relating to the magnitsky act, is that code that donald trump jr. might have discussed these kinds of sanctions at the meeting? >> i think what the president was trying to do, and of course i don't know because i'm not inside his brain, but i think he was trying to signify that this is a normal top inic of diploma conversation that was had by donald trump jr. earlier and now he's having a similar type of conversation. but what in fact he really revealed was that he was talking with putin about the possibility of repealin

the magnitsky act is a piece of legislation named after my lawyer, sergei magnitsky. sergei magnitsky was an anti-corruption in moscow, uncovered a massive $230 million russian government corruption skaem. he exposed. it he was arrested, tortured in prison and killed at the age of 37, seven years ago. and i've gone on a mission to washington to get a piece of legislation in place, which was passed, called the magnitsky act, which imposes visa sanctions and asset freezes on russian human rights violators. this is something that very much upsets vladimir putin. >> ron clain, the sourcing for "the new york times" original article was three advisers to the white house briefed on the meeting with two others with knowledge of it. advisers to the white house, so that indicates to me they are probably people working outside of the white house. but this is a trump-friendly group of sources for "the new york times" article. what do you make of that? >> well, i think it's hard to know what to make of that, lawrence. i think that tonight, in fact, the white house is kind of flipp

she changed subjects and began discussing the subject of adopting russian children and the magnitsky act. that act opposes sanctions on russian officials and infuriated vladimir putin so he froze adoption of russian children. obviously i'm the first person on the campaign to ever take a meeting to hear info about an opponent. went nowhere but had to listen. white house like wise insisted nothing inappropriate took place. >> i've been on several campaigns and people call offering information. as i know many of you receive similar calls of people offering information. don jr took a very short meeting from which there was absolutely no follow-up. the only thing i see inappropriate about the meeting is the people that leaked the information on the meeting after it was voluntarily disclosed. >> senate intelligence committee is already interested in speaking with donald trump jr about the meeting. he hired a new lawyer who is formally represented the mafia. i asked john podesta for his reaction. >> it is drip, drip, drip. we keep learning more information. the story keeps changing. now it

death and brought it claims he knew magnitsky personally but according to vesa lipsky on this couldn't be further from the truth and this is where i don't try and do enters the picture and the big question for many is why is us the next guy was so keen to inform the trunk team about the military say with brown his reputation. this was the story that i brought to donald trump jr i wanted him to know that browder a person who gave up his u.s. citizenship is trying to manipulate people in congress and now we even know their names the media have disclosed them he was making all those connections even though he hadn't lived in the country for twenty years was not paying any taxes not doing anything useful in fact he's only mission was to go after his opponents while gaining some political capital it was nothing but retaliation from this man who did this in order to distract everyone with the big story is the government. so can you refute this information from the emails released by donald trump jr where goldstone . i don't know that person and now we come to the name rob goldstone when don'

how angry is putin still at the magnitsky act?s he's still very angry that he would still like it rolled back. >> reporter: putin was so angry at the magnitsky act he banned adoptions of russian orphans by americans. the 2012 american law was named after a whistle blower named sergey magnitsky who died in russian custody after he kun covered a massive fraud scheme benefiting putin's cronies. putin and his circle have denied involvement in magnitsky's death. they say some of putin's cronies are being hurt from the act because it cuts them off from money they were able to squirrel away in the u.s. >> they take that money and put it am earn banks and swiss banks and send their kids to boarding schools and girlfriends to milan on shopping trips. >> reporter: another reesz putin hates the magnitsky act according to sara men doll son, the law means putin can't guarantee protection for the oligarchs who do his bidding. >> this is essentially the business model, good fellas business model being called into question where he's asking or so

on the number of russian individuals over magnitsky death and brought it claims he knew magnitsky personally but according to vessel nick schuyler this couldn't be further from the truth and this is where i don't try and do nia enters the picture and the big question for many is why does us the next guy was so keen to inform the truth about the millionaire or say well brought his reputation will slip the story of this was the story that i brought to donald trump jr i wanted him to know that browder a person who gave up his u.s. citizenship is trying to manipulate people in congress and now we even know their names the media have disclosed them he was making all those connections even though he hadn't lived in the country for twenty years was not paying any taxes not doing anything he was in fact his only mission was to go after his opponents while gaining some political capital it was nothing but retaliation from this man who did this in order to distract everyone with this big story to stop our government. so can you refute this information. from the e-mails released by donald trump jr wher

now what is best known for is his role in the magnitsky act this is an act named after a russian lawyer who was once employed by brown as company in russia he was later arrested in connection with a tax fraud case and he died was being held in detention browder later played a major role in law being for a set of sanctions to be imposed by the us on the number of russian individuals over magnitsky death and brought it claims he knew magnitsky personally but according to vesa lipsky on this couldn't be further from the truth and this is where i don't try and do enters the picture and the big question for many is why does us the next guy was so keen to inform the trunk team about the milly arity with brown his reputation. this was the story that i brought to donald trump jr i wanted him to know that browder a person who gave up his u.s. citizenship is trying to manipulate people in congress and now we even know their names the media have disclosed them he was making all those connections even though he hadn't lived in the country for twenty years was not paying any taxes not doing anything

when she was arguing against the magnitsky act. so we have a situation where we may well have a white house this is a big issue, and the kremlin obviously thinks otherwise. >> and it didn't take long for the intel committee to jump on this. susan collins said, look, we have some questions here. but where does this go from here? >> so donald trump has to go before the senate intelligence committee. >> donald trump jr.? >> jr. and tell the truth. and sometimes when associates of donald trump senior tell the truth, that exposes them to criminal liability. you know, if i were representing trump jr., i would strongly think about encouraging him to take the fifth. because if he goes in and isn't fully forthcoming about every single thing that happened in this meeting, who caught it, what the subject was -- >> the political implications of that, as you know, paul, would be huge. >> that's always an issue for politicians when they have criminal exposure. or if they have seen a tough investigation. their criminal defense lawyers give them v

similar to the global magnitsky ability. sanctions are not going to solve the problem, but they are a useful tool. i mentioned the various threads that come together. all of the tools i mentioned are useful to the degree that we americans and the europeans and the g7 take seriously the challenge of an autocratic russia, which wants to export its corruption and seems to be aiming to make the world safe for russian autocracy. that is by weakening democratic institutions and weakening the idea of democracy and lest you think that's an original thought on my part it's actually about a 200-year-old russian policy from the time of nicholas i. no need to remind our lithuania about czarnik last who used his liberal army to crush them. the better to keep out the infectious ideas of the enlightenment. i do not believe that russia is doomed to live forever its worst history. i don't expect the notion of the civilizational divide. in russian history, russia does when it fails at external aggression turn to internal reform. and it has so

browder and undermine the magnitsky act. mr. simpson's company, fusion gps, is the same firm that oversaw the creation of the unverified trump dossier. around the same time, fusion also helped orchestrate a campaign to repeal the magnitsky act for the benefit of russian governments. there are public reports that the fbi used the dossier to kick start its russian investigation. did the fbi know that fusion pitched propaganda for the russians even as it pushed the dossier? what would they say about its reliability if the dossier was represented to any court should this fact have been disclosed? two other individuals identified in mr. browder's complaint have been in the news a lot lately. the first is the russian lawyer who represents holdings. her name, natalia vesnit skia, as you know. we'll just refer to her as russian agent xyz or something. pr er prevazon is a russian company connected to millions of dollars. the other person is a russian american lobbyist with reported ties to russian intelligence. "the new york times" recen