. >>> you have likely heard the phrase the magnitsky act before. that is the act that targets top russian oligarchs and officials, putin's closest aides, denying access to western visas and opportunities. it is the action that the government once repealed and what the russians who met the trump campaign wanted to talk about. bill browder who had once been the largest foreign investor in russia, is the driving force behind that role. now the russians have fought back. interpol has now blocked that warrant and mr. browder is again free to travel. he joins me today from london. welcome, bill. >> good to see you. >> first explain the timing of this decision. why this week? >> well, last week was a very important week in that canada passed the canadian version of the magnitsky act to impose visa sanctions and asset freezes on the people who killed my lawyer, sergei magnitsky, and the people who do similar abuses in russia and around the world. and putin went crazy over there. when i say he went crazy, we actually got a chance to see a video of him givin

congress to pass the magnitsky act. trying to use other mechanisms. also mort fiified, pockets, wal, bank accounts. stress not sanctions in russia in general. i don't think it makes much sense to try to punish and entire country for the actions of a small unelected group of people in the kremlin. personal targeted sanksdss on them personally and prepared to do anything to try to overturn that. >> and very important to make. when we talk about the russiagate, russia in general, it isn't russia but the small og gas oligarchy sitting at the top of it. think of vladimir putin, a can be goode agent, a guy with a background in doing this disinformation campaigns we've seen. this was particularly hamhanded. proffers of information were essentially given away in e-mails to donald trump jr. who then replies, great. if you've got dirt. it does feel like this sort of attempt to withdraw these sanctions. veselnitskaya, no, the meeting was about adoptions. why so hamhanded, do you think? >> first of all, he is not the brilliant mastermind everybody, a lot of peopl

after magnitsky exposed that tax fraud scheme, magnitsky was jailed. he got sick in a moscow prison and died in 2009. browder believes because russian officials purposefully didn't care for him. >> sergey magnitsky is dead. he suffered terribly and is dead because he was my lawyer. >> reporter: putin and his aides have repeatedly denied browder's allegations and now they claim magnitsky's death was all browder's idea. >> translator: underneath are the criminal activities of an entire gang, led by one particular man. i believe browder is his name. >> reporter: cnn has obtained from bill browder a letter from a top russian prosecutor to justice officials in moscow, asking them to investigate browder and an unidentified person, employed by the british intelligence agency, mi6, accusing them of a, quote, criminal plan to take actions aimed at the termination of rendering medical care to s.l. magnitsky. >> it's also absurd because of the implication which russians themselves would deny, that somehow mi6 or bill browder are able to control what russian priso

sergei magnitsky was tortured and killed in a prison. allows to freeze assets and deny visas for foreigners suspected of human rights violations. he met with donald trump jr. in hopes to repeal the law and free up russian assets in the united states. where it gets interesting, over the weekend this tweet was posted saying russian president vladimir putin placed him on interpol's wanted list and says department of homeland security denied him a visa to travel to the united states. here to join me now from london, bill good to see you. tell me what's happened? >> well, so what happened was last week the canadian government passed their own magnitsky act. putin was furious. gave a speech thursday night saying how angry he was at the canadians and at me personally, and then all of a sudden i get added to the interpol wanted list, and then strangely, and totally unexpectedly, my u.s. vis sa gets canceled. putin effectively made it impossible to cross a border without being arrested and not able to travel to the united states of america. so he

polish russian officials for the death of a russian toxic and surrogate magnitsky the tell us to meet sky spoke to us about her own medal of the meeting. as i personally gave this memo to the journalist i can't recall her name this is a translation of a memo that i prepared for myself before my trip to the u.s. last year it has the results of an investigation into why the monkeys could act was passed this act was used against my client just to make it clear i was never against any sanctions because they don't involve my client but i'm against manipulating facts i'm against how these storage fees haven't investigated the story behind the magnitsky act what happened in the us in twenty twelve just pure politics there's nothing about the real story of surrogate need ski. there so i was referring to surrogate magnitsky or russian intoxicant who work for the hermitage capital management phone he died in a pretrial detention center in two thousand and nine and was a primary suspect in a tax evasion investigation the u.s. accused a number of russian officials of complicity in his death and i

i mean, it largely is about the magnitsky act. and i think that's why the trump campaign was like what is this? why are we doing this? and understand jared kushner left early. paul manafort didn't think it was all that big of a deal. but again to your point there was clearly an interest. >> yeah. and let me just be clear here about my perspective on this to your point, matt, about the characterizations of the meeting inside the room. i don't believe they were definitive or take them with a grain of salt. that's what those folks say happened in that meeting. and maybe they are telling the truth. but also remanins the case, michael, that the really important question here is what happened after the meeting. because after the meeting, after they are told the russian government is trying to help their dad win, they find out that there is these leaks, and it reported from the press the russian government is behind it. so the question is did that make it up to donald trump and what did they do about it, you've been reporting closely, ar

died while in police custody in russia he is the namesake for the magnitsky act that the female lawyer used as a ruse to meet with the truck campaign last year at trump tower so at this russia stuff is getting really hard to follow what started out to be the democrats' only talking point against president trump seems to be finding its way back to their own home turf with a new link to pedestrian and man of court will certainly be looking for new details to emerge as the week unfolds ed. well i think we'd be remiss monella if we didn't point out that the democrats and republicans are lacking in outrage tonight and they were all upset about general michael flynn going to an r.t.c. celebration. and several years ago and getting paid a speaker's fee yet bill clinton while his wife was secretary of state hauled in five hundred thousand dollars in russian speaking fees as well a very interesting thank you monella president trump built himself as the deal maker and great negotiator so far some members of congress see the president who doesn't keep his word senator lamar alexander of tennessee

if you undermine bill crowder, you undermine the magnitsky act.eal is it one of putin's biggest foreign policy objectives. so the entire memo was attacking him. alleging that he had worked these investment brothers called the zip brothers to try buy up gas shares outside the purrview of the kremlin. and there were one or two lines about hillary clinton but the entire memo, both the memos, they were about bill browder and he the magnitsky act. >> a lot of names in the story. but back to the kremlin. and that was different as was pointed out at the top of the show than the public defense offered by don jr. explicitly and we see from reporting, allegedly by the president, in weighing in on the meeting, to say that to the extent, this was the argument. they argued to the extent there were people name checking these powerful kremlin folks, it was puffery. it was trying to get past it by saying, i know these a-listers when you don't. no. they knew. what is the legal path? >> well, it's interesting. i was taking a look at the issue when i read "the new y

congressman roerbach to go on campaign to repeal the magnitsky act.ater snemveselnistkaya s up but has essentially the same talking points as the russian government. >> so your reporting indicates there was some contact there. so, you know, does that mean that these subject of the meeting, that don jr. said was just about adoption may have been specifically a meeting to trade the magnitsky act for dirt on hillary clinton? >> it's certainly possible. a couple weeks before natalia veselnistkaya went to this meeting, she apparently did meet with a number of very well connected russian officials. and she then -- then they organized this meeting with the trump campaign. and she went in there with these talking points, essentially to argue for the repeal of these very high level sanctions on these russian officials. whether or not there was some kind of, you know, quid pro quo that occurred, that's something that the investigators will have to figure out. >> and sarah, if you could reiterate for our audience why the magnitsky act keeps coming up and why it

magnitsky act so vladimir putin put me on the interpol most wanted list.ing to do this for many years he's been rejected by interpol four times, but he succeeded at least temporarily getting me on the list last week and strangely the u.s. visa system seems to be tied up with the russian interpol list because my visa going into america was immediately canceled so i've got two problems one an interpol arrest warrant, and two, i can't travel to america right now. >> so i'm assuming your understanding is it'snot the state department does not want you to travel here, it's just that the bureaucratic process, she tried to say, is that when you end up on the interpol list you will be denied a u.s. visa and this situation has to be cleared up in some way. >> that's what i think is happening. now, we will find out more, but based on the reaction of the department of homeland security and the u.s. government, surely if they quickly correct this then that will show it's a bureaucratic problem if all of a sudden it lingers or hangs on or they get defensive, then obviou

>> no. >> have you discussed anything like sanctions, like the magnitsky act, what they call the adoption issue? >> i don't believe i've ever had any discussion, at any time about the magnitsky act. >> have you discussed with them any policies or positions of the campaign or the trump presidency? >> i -- i'm not sure about that. if i met with the russian ambassador after i gave a speech at the republican convention, he was right in front of the speakerphone, and we had a few -- we had an encounter there. and that he came, he asked for an appointment in my office later. i met with 26 ambassadors in the last year. and he was one of them. he came into my office with two of my senior defense specialists and met with me for a whale. and i don't recall any conversation about what was the last subject? let me get it right, you asked me, um -- >> i think he wants you to repeat something. >> any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency? >> i don't think there was any discussion about the details of the campaign, other than, it could have been that in that meeting, in my office or

entourage vessel in the sky as says she requested a meeting to argue her case for overturning the magnitsky act a u.s. law targeting russian human rights abuses the president's son meanwhile expected damaging information and opposition research about hillary clinton and claims he cut that meeting short when they started talking about matters related to iraq. now e-mails provided to the paper reportedly shows correspondence between vessel in the sky and azerbaijani russian billionaire. go go rob aguilar of excuse me they reportedly begin the e-mails in october two thousand and fifteen one vessel and sky are for shared information about her and timely magnitsky efforts with a russian prosecutor in the e-mails vessel and it's also reportedly shells that shares allegations about a u.s. investment firm called ziff brothers possibly dodging taxes in russia the firm later donated to democrats now the new e-mails could offer evidence backing the russian lawyers claims that she was meeting with trump jr solely to discuss the midnight ski act now in the meeting between the president's son and the rus

m magnitski act. putin hates it so much, starting to go crazy.has a lot of huge money in the west and this particular piece of legislation potentially freezes and seizes that money. >> stay with me. bring in former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul who spoke out about this as it was breaking. ambassador, your view, latest, trump administration asserting they thought they cleared this up, before browder saying that doesn't add up and claim that maybe the sanctions are hurting vladimir putin's pocketbook. >> with respect to dhs and state department saying and what bill knows, i'm glad they're taking it seriously and should get it cleared up right away. i consider it an embarrassment to my government and country there was any ambiguity about the fact that bill browder should be able to travel to our country. larger thing, of course bill is right. i've listened to vladimir putin talk about the law. he doesn't like it for all the reasons bill just said. therefore bill is one of his enemies. you see by this action, he will use any means that he

i mean that includes sergey magnitsky. does this prove collusion between the clintons or the dnc and russia? by proxy or just a coincidence they all used the same smear firm? >> those are some of the questions we want answered. we don't know yet, whether or not russians paid fusion gps, obviously we would like to know that? very much an important part of our investigation, to get to the bottom of that. so look, we're continuing to ask these questions, and we're continuing to get stonewalled, not just by fusion gps. we're also having problems, speaker of the house this morning called on doj and fbi to get us the information that we've been asking for that we subpoenaed for over two months regarding this dossier. and so look, this is starting to eventually, the truth will get its boots on. we're hoping that it happens sooner rather than later. melissa: if the clinton camp and dnc did in fact pay for at least a portion of this, and then this information, which ended up being debunked, was used to get surveillance and wire app

emails, russian interference, sanctions like the magnitsky act adoption issue or any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency? this is since the 2016 campaign. >> senator leahy, i want to be accurate so i don't want to have any ambiguity about your questions. that's a lot of questions. let's think about this. i have never had a meeting with any russian officials to discuss any kind of coordinating campaign efforts. i know you are shaking your head so i want to first say -- >> let's take it piece by piece. any of the following, emails. >> repeat the question about emails. >> since the 2016 campaign have you discussed with any russian-connected officials anything by emails. >> discussed with them. i don't recall having done any such thing. >> have you discussed with them russian interference in our elections. >> no. >> have you discussed anything like sanctions like the magnitsky act what they call the adoption issue? >> i don't believe i've ever had any discussion at any time about the mag nights key act. >> any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency? >>

attorney general sessions: i don't think i ever had any discussions about the magnitsky act. heavy discussed anything related to the campaign of the trump presidency? attorney general sessions: i'm not sure about that. i met with the russian ambassador after i gave a speech at the republican convention. he was right in the front and we and heencounter there, asked for an appointment in my office later. i met with 26 ambassadors in the last year, and he was one of them. office with two of my senior defense specialists, and met with me for a while. and i don't recall any conversation about, what was the last subject? let me get right. you asked me? >> i think he wants you to repeat something. are -- anyy polys policies or positions of the truck campaigner presidency? attorney general sessions: i don't think there was any discussion about details of the campaign, other then, it could have been in that meeting in my office or at the convention, that some comment was made about what trump's positions work. i think that is possible. attorney general sessions: have have you been int

magnitsky works for the hermitage capital management fund he died in a pretrial detention center in two thousand and nine and was a prime suspect in a tax evasion investigation the u.s. accused a number of russian officials of complicity in his death and imposed sanctions against them authorities have denied any wrongdoing in the case but even the newly published memo hasn't to raise suspicion and tell us in its guy is a kremlin agent some media outlets claim the documents language resembles another memo handed to a u.s. congressman by russia's prosecutor general natalya says there's nothing suspicious about that either but this graph which i've read this memo and i agree that there are some similar points there is nothing extraordinary or criminal about that i have written about my investigation to prosecutor's office many times in this memo there are just facts it doesn't matter what language you read them and it's all the same to maneuver to however some think that you're working for kremlin. is a very stupid conclusion well at least now they will read into the full story. china's pr

one of the things russia did is hire fusion gps to spread lies about magnitsky.that vladimir putin used to smear magnitsky to smear donald trump. >> sandra: let me tell you what his campaign is saying. i didn't know the head of fusion gps. if i had i would have volunteered to go to europe and tried to help him. this is the response from brian fallon this morning. >> maybe he is known for this entire year about this and the clinton campaign has known and again, this is a firm that was used by russia to smear sergei magnitsky, a victim of human rights abuses of the russian government was congress was passing legislation. hillary clinton used vladimir putin's opposition research firm to try and smear donald trump. that's a scandal of enormous proportion. >> sandra: we're just now getting into all this. the "wall street journal" reporter has been on this saying fusion gps, let's dig deeper and here we are this morning. a developing story. marc thiessen, thanks for joining us. >> bill: you're exactly right. there is a lot to follow. trey gowdy was with us last hour yo

october two thousand and fifteen one vessel and sky are for shared information about her anti me magnitsky efforts with a russian prosecutor in the e-mails vessel in the sky also reportedly she. shares allegations about a u.s. investment firm called ziff brothers possibly dodging taxes in russia the firm later donated to democrats now the new e-mails could offer evidence backing the russian lawyers claims that she was meeting with trump jr solely to discuss the midnight ski act now in the meeting between the president's son and the russian lawyer became a flashpoint of controversy this summer when john jr released all his e-mails showing that he had been told the purpose of this meeting was for the russian government to provide allegedly incriminating information about hillary clinton do we have any idea how these e-mails were obtained. well they were reportedly provided to the paper by scott ball a us lawyer representing our as. the russian billionaire who hosted the trump owned miss universe pageant in moscow in two thousand and thirteen and who had helped secure the trump tower meeting

russian officials they were being punished over the death in custody of surrogate magnitsky who worked for a moscow law firm been investigating mass corruption in russia she says she wanted to prove the sanctions were politically motivated and that was the purpose of something just to make it clear i was never against any sanctions because they don't involve my client but i'm against manipulating facts i'm against how these storage fees haven't investigated the story behind the make the ski act what happened in the u.s. must pure politics. as with malice i personally gave this memo to the journalists i can't recall her name this is a translation of a memo that i prepared for myself before my trip to the u.s. last year everything our learned i shared with police and american lawyers this memo was the result of my own investigation surrogate mark netsky work for the hermitage capital management fund he died in the pre trial of the tension center in two thousand and nine while he was being held over tax evasion claims the u.s. accuses the number of russian officials of complicity in his d

earlier by the russian prosecutor's office and it focused on bill browder who spearhead this had magnitskyns legislation in 2012. if you undermine browder did, you undermine the sanctions, a chief foreign policy to have putin since they were implemented in 2012. >> okay. you've covered most of all the major players reportedly under investigation by bob mueller here. so i know you don't know but your instinct, what do you think in terms of who is the target of this indictment that will be revealed tomorrow? >> well, my first instinct was it was either trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort or his former national security adviser michael flynn but a new report this weekend has cast some doubt on that because apparently their attorneys have not been notified after a possible indictment which is customary in investigations like this. that being said, you know, i think that paul manafort's son-in-law jeff yoh ty there's been a lot of scrutiny on him over past real estate deals could be a target of the indictment or it could be michael flynn's son, michael flynn junior who did a lot of w

the magnitsky act was about sanctions. they had an interesting in working to ease russian sanctions. i don't think anybody believes in the peak of a presidential campaign that trump team was interested in working on a adoption issue in a foreign adversary's country. this was about getting information about hillary clinton, also may have been a dangle on behalf of the russians to probe what the interest was from the trump team. i say bring them all before the intelligence committees allows us to question them and test the stories against each other and we can tell the american people what is truth. >> let me get your reaction to the president's new message this morning to north korea, he wrote on twitter, as he often does, about north korea. here's what he writes our country has been unsuccessful dealing with north korea for 25 years giving billions of dollars back and getting nothing. policy didn't work. he has a point. diplomacy has not worked in the long term with north korea. but this is coupled with republican senator

meeting first came out that they didn't do that, you know, that was all about the magnitsky act. you know, time and time again, we're actually seeing that there was that kind of communication. the question is, where did it go? >> well, and legitimately to that point, i mean you do not see any evidence thus far at least of any of these meeting offers being taken up outside of the trump jr. meeting, all the offers that papadopolous made, no one acted on them. that does help the administration here. >> it helps the administration and circling back to the way we started that's why it's foolish for the president to be attacking papadopolous. he may be the guy who exonerates the president by saying i never spoke to presidential candidate trump about this. >> they turned down all of my -- >> he is a liar, a convicted liar. he pled guilty to it. that matters in a court of law. may not matter in the investigation as it were because it may provoke him to provide more information. we'll have to wait and see. professor, counselor, thanks for being with us. fascinating discussion. >>> a senio

started out as a magnitsky act meeting. it had nothing do with russia. until these people are presented with indictments and facts on pieces of paper that come from the doj, they deny. they obfuscate. at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether this was a major operative or a minor operative. he was member of the campaign, acting for the campaign. and as we now know, rather than doing and i think carrie got it exactly right. rather than saying my god, this is an enemy of the united states with nothing but ill wishes for the united states, we shouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole. his reaction was exactly don jr.'s reaction which was let's do it. let's keep this conversation going and let's see what we can get on hillary clinton. that obviously, i don't know if that's collusion. everybody has a different definition of collusion. it is certainly cooperation. it is certainly working with an enemy of the united states to help compromise an election for the president of the united states. >> congressman, you work on the intelligence committee,

law, including the so-called global magnitsky targeted sanctions. and i call on countries like china and russia to support the suspension of all international weapons sales to the burmese military. they should not be transferring weapons to this murderous regi regime. so in conclusion, as senator merkley and i stated in our letter on friday to ambassador haley, now is the time, now is the time to take bold and effective actions against the burmese government to end the violence, not just to help the burmese people but to help stabilize the region and protect u.s. national security interests. now is the time to uphold our fundamental values, the values, frankly, of civilized nations. now is the time to work with this administration and colleagues on both sides of the aisle to make sure that we can reach as peaceful and as positive resolution to this horrible situation as possible. i want to close by once again acknowledging the tremendous leadership of senator merkley. i want to dank him for his partnership -- thank him for his partnership on this ef

that's in a sense what the magnitsky act was. and she was there to lobby, to say to the trump team, when you get into office, we want those sanctions relieved. so if the investigation that bob mueller is leading that jim comey previously led was about that meeting and that undermining of american foreign policy and the president was trying to change the cover story or to advance a cover story to change the true nature of that meeting, then that is circumstantial evidence that he was witting of an effort to obstruct justice. >> i'm trying to translate all of jeremy bash's careful legal analysis here. but it sounds like we have another piece of evidence today that there were ties between the kremlin and the trump campaign. with that in place, how is it possible that what politico reports today could be true. they're nearing a point where they'll wave a white flag and say, we'll leave the question of collusion to bob mueller? >> i think it would be a mistake for them to do that. obviously, they shouldn't make any conclusions that th

murphy i appreciate your view that you want to impose sanctions against the military or use magnitsky, which is a bill i'm proud about. but where are the generals for what they've done in raping people, burning villages. where is the accountability for those who are responsible for directing this? >> senator, i agree with you. accountability is vitally important. >> what is the united states doing? >> as i said in my statement we have announced measured to pursue accountability. including the consultation with the very organizations that have those tools available to them. the united nations, the u.n. human rights council and others. we are taking measured ourselves but we have to admit we have very limited influence and leverage. we don't have a normal relationship with this military. we haven't for decades. and the process of lifting sanctions we have isolated restrictions on the military that remain in place. we will take additional measures as i've said to restrict travel here, to explore measures how we can sanction individuals found to be accountable. poobe accountable. and that

have you discussed anything about the magnitsky act , what they call the adoption issue? a.g. sessions: i don't believe so. have you discussed any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency? i am not sure about that. if i met with the russian ambassador after a speech at the republican convention -- he was right in front of the speakerphone and we had an encounter there, and he asked for an appointment in my office later. i met with 26 ambassadors in the last year, and he was one of them. he came into my office with two of my senior defense specialists, and met with me for a while. and i don't recall any conversation about -- what was the last subject? let me get it right. you asked me -- >> i think he wants you to repeat something. sen. leahy: any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency. a.g. sessions: i don't think there was any discussion about details of the campaign, other than it could have been that in that meeting in my office or at the convention, that some comment was made about what comes positions were. i think that is -- comment wa

have you discussed anything about the magnitsky act , what they call the adoption issue? a.g. sessions: i don't believe so. have you discussed any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency? i am not sure about that. if i met with the russian ambassador after a speech at the republican convention -- he was right in front of the speakerphone and we had an encounter there, and he asked for an appointment in my office later. i met with 26 ambassadors in the last year, and he was one of them. he came into my office with two of my senior defense specialists, and met with me for a while. and i don't recall any conversation about -- what was the last subject? let me get it right. you asked me -- >> i think he wants you to repeat something. sen. leahy: any policies or positions of the campaign or trump presidency. a.g. sessions: i don't think there was any discussion about details of the campaign, other than it could have been that in that meeting in my office or at the convention, that some comment was made about what comes positions were. i think that is -- comment wa

. >> i saw your gusts earlier the magnitski lawyer.t it, listen, i don't tell anyone who to vote anymore. i get it vote republican, vote liberal, that's fine. if you are a liberal how are you not horrified that people in your government at the spheres of power took fake russian intel to start a counter intelligence investigation against the presidential candidate? ainsley: this should be illegal, not happen. what happens next? >> i think fusion g.p.s. right now, this has become a very serious. brian: you mean the group that took the fifth? >> fusion gps has got to come clean. we have got to see the bank records. in those bank records you have to look for one thing. catherine herridge has been all over. this did the russians pay fusion gps and what was the money for? because this -- folks, i'm telling you, we have lost trust in our entire ic intelligence community. brian: we agree that the dnc write 3.6 million and hillary clinton campaign over 5 million, just short of 6 million. you are trying to see if the russians were also paying. >