senator manchin: we only have 50 votes. basically, take whatever we can't come to an agreement today and take that on the campaign trail next year and i'm sure they'll get more liberal progressive democrats with what they say they want. reporter: senator manchin -- have you communicated this top-line number to congresswoman jayapal or any progressives in the house who are now threatening to sink the infrastructure bill today? senator manchin: it's a shame because no two bills should be linked together to you let the perfect be the enemy of the good. i have been aren't an awful long time in state and now federal politics and that should never be the case. i put this out. i thought it was shared with other people that maybe had not been and i just kept my word that i wouldn't. i know you are condemning me for that. i think my word is all i have here. i've done that. now it's time because it has been out. we need to talk about it. reporter: are you going to talk to jayapal? senator manchin: if they want to talk i will sit down

we learned a short time ago he did speak to joe manchin himself just yes following a day he and manchin met at the white house in addition to his meetings with krysten sinema. for the president there are growing calls among democrats to be more forceful and get better involved here. as we learn more about manchin's position it appears clear there's only so much the president can do. you are not going to bridge a $2 trillion gap in a matter of hours. >> peter, do you get the sense that members of the west wing staff, cedric richmond, susan rice, ron klain, are they trying to twist some arms in the house to get this bipartisan bill passed today or not? >> we know obviously a lot of the names you mentioned were up on capitol hill 24 hours ago so a lot of meetings have been taking place. whether they're trying to twist arms or not the way it has been described to me, that this is all part of a process. you're not feeling the urgency for anything to happen today which is a bad sign for the vote happening today and really raises questions about what the time frame is in which they are willing

and although they are both holding this, up that they can deal with senator manchin, and senator manchindy that his team understands. they do not have an understanding of senator sinema, they do not know what you want, they do not know how to deal with her, and they do not know how to deal with their stuff. so i think that that is at the core of what the problem is right now. she is in the words of the language of chemistry, a bio crush mystery, she is a free radical at this point. and that one free radical has messed up all the variables, all the equations, all the physics, and the chemistry that is supposed to lead to a vote tomorrow. and nancy pelosi was betting on when she decoupled the two bills earlier this week. she is soon she would get to a rational outcome, but senator sinema and senator manchin, they are not there. tonight and i don't think that they'll be there tomorrow. either >> and adam jentleson, when there's a challenge when there's no one in this intimate office you can call. there's not like there's some experience legislative director or chief of senator, there is not

>> senator manchin: you saw the. >> reporter: you have not send any of that in public. >> senator manchinnor my agreement. [overlapping speakers] >> senator manchin: i know there's been a debate. i thought they would have brought it up for sure. everyone has been pretty clear. , in my caucus and what is going on. >> reporter: senator manchin -- >> reporter: could you share that number it with the president? >> senator manchin: the last week or so. my top line has not been -- mike helpline has been 1.5. what we can do and what we need right now, but we can, to do without basically changing our whole society. >> reporter: -- that does not -- >> senator manchin: here's what the progresses -- hold on to. [indistinct question] >> senator manchin: we did not have 50 votes. basically take whatever we are not able to come to an agreement and take that on the campaign trail and i'm sure there will be many more liberal progressive democrats. [overlapping speakers] >> reporter: have you communicated these numbers to the congressman or any progresses in the house? >> senator manchin: it is a shame. [

you know this manchin memo, i guess you can call it the manchin-schumer memo. it's been clear the final reconciliation wasn't going to be 3.5. the question is how north can it get to keep manchin and sinema in line. at this point i do not buy, maybe i'll prove to be naive that this is suggested manchin's plan, he plans to bail on the non-infrastructure piece of the package. i think all these things travel together. but this is going to be a big pill for some progressives to swallow. if we end up at 1, 5, i'll make a general point, to the, tent that anybody out there in the opportunityr country who is going to decide the 2022 election is paying attention, allthey know is there is no agreement or what's in these bills and eventually, that's a solvable problem. if are you able to pass these things, that will be a big part for the next 14 months, essentially. you got to get out. right now, it's big numbers. it doesn't mean anything to anybody. democrats are arguing. i'm not overly alarmed about that. the democrats have to go community by community and media market

joe manchin is not there. there, uncertain. >> manu, appreciate the hustle live on capitol hill. let's bring on for her very important perspective a member of the senate democratic leadership, senator tammy baldwin. thanks for your patience as we listen to your colleague right now. was that helpful or hurtful you? served more than a dozen years in the house. you understand the dynamic in the house very well and know the speaker very well and your colleague joe manchin. he was more clear an definitive, but he did it on a day when there's supposed to be a very important vote in the house where a lot of progressives will boycott the infrastructure bill and now they heard a number that would send them into a spiral. >> i like to look at the positives. he's still talking and negotiating. he's too focused on top line numbers and progressives and moderates alike are committed to the build back better agenda, and this measure goes hand in hand with the infrastructure bill. frankly if we don't reduce taxes on working p

both senator manchin and senator sinema voted for. they voted for the $3.5 trillion budget resolution. now they apparently do not want to vote for the matching $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill which contains the actual details of how it would be spent, and how tax revenue would be raised to pay for that bill. but as unsatisfying as that reply might have been, senator sinema's response is not just unsatisfying, it's something that no senator with the slightest sense of accountability to voters would ever say. >> what do you say to progressives that are frustrated that they don't know where you are. >> i'm in the senate. >> there are progressives in the senate that say they don't know where you are either. >> i'm clearly right in front of the elevator. >> i'm in the senate. that is so much worse, so much worse than not saying anything. there's a senator mocking the very concept of public accountability. a senator who appears to think that what she's doing is funny. there is a senator who appears to be laughing at people all over the co

does everybody know joe manchin here? >> if they don't, they know a usin or a brother or some type of relation. >> desjains: 400 people and one stoplight, farmington was built up by coal miners. for those wondering why manchin is a democrat, much of it is here. cummons and her grandmother, who live next to each other, point to the tight-knit immigrant community. >> italians, you had czech, croatians, polish, all these different countries. but when they got here, they were all on an even playing field. >> desjardins: this building was the manchin's grocery store. they also owned the furniture store where manchin worked. the stores and family framed his brand of democrat-- his family regularly helped struggling miners with food and clothes and everyone was expected to work hard. >> you don't get things for free, but at the same time, you know, being in that environment, he saw all the good deeds and the way they kind of paid it forward to other families. >> he always stood out because he wanted to help. >> desjardins: over

is it june manchin, september manchin, august manchin? will december manchin be different?h manchin. that's the date of the memo. >> bret: that's right. >> it hasn't changed since then. look. what he said was basic facts. the reason democrats are in this fix is because they have a gigantic agenda and miniscule majority. they failed to win the seats they thought they were going to win in 2020. as joe manchin said today, i have never been a liberal. he's representing a state that trump won by, what, 29 points? like that song in hamilton, they don't have the votes and they're gonna have to compromise. that's just the way it is. >> reporter: trey, you've seen this play before. speaker pelosi has pulled rabbits out of hats legislatively before. we don't know what's gonna happen tonight. do you think she could cobble this together? >> it depend. it depends on how many republican senators continue to call republican members of the house and ask them to vote for the infrastructure bill. kevin mccarthy has a job to do here, too, which is skaoep the republicans coalesced. i love aoc'

you've been listening to joe manchin.and kyrsten sinema are probably the two most ought-after senators right now. they're holdouts on the 3 1/2 trillion dollar package, mansion made news finally attaching a number for him would be at least more preferred over all human infrastructure package. not 3 1/2 trillion, more like 1 1/2 trillion. i can tell you already, without much, having to check around on this, progressives are going to be apoplectic over that. it is not only two trillion dollars cheaper on paper than what they wanted but it is nowhere near the 2 1/2 trillion that at a bare minimum even some of the more accommodating progressives had said they could, quote, unquote, tolerate. what's more, he opened the possibility this could drag on a while. now the dragging on a while is an interesting development. the same progressives are the ones who are not going to move on this infrastructure only package that roughly 1.2 package infrastructure largely for infrastructure but clearly not entirely but it is better than not

another thing about joe manchin is manchin talks to reporters. he's constantly communicating, this is where i am and this is what i think that way. yesterday sinema was outside the elevators and the media asked her, where are you? your colleagues want to know where you are. she says i am in the senate. where are you on this bill? i am standing by the elevator. that's it. she's just not ready for primetime. >> well, the white house does send out encouraging signals and saying that they seem to think is possible they can make a deal with her. the question is no one public ly knows where she is on any of this. she's an unusual member of the senate. is she willing to blow up her president's agenda on her own. is she willing to send the party down on this path on her own. that's a big question. we don't have an answer to that. i don't know how she gets the votes. i know the white house is frustrated with her and there is tensions inside and the meetings we have heard about that. she's not facing reelection any time soon. she prides herself on her mave

jen: you could paragraphs senator manchin's words. i'm certain he'll answer questions again and your colleague should answer more questions. reporter: why do you think this is not -- that senator manchin's position on this is not final? jen: because this is an active negotiation. because he was pushed repeatedly during the gaggle that he did on capitol hill about where he stood. but again i'm not here to speak for senator manchin. he certainly can speak for himself. what his points of views are. i encourage you to keep asking him questions about where he stands. go ahead. reporter: back on the deadline. it was said at the beginning of the week announced it was a big week. democrats are in charge here, at the white house and in both houses of congress. and they set the deadline. democrats set the deadline -- jen: they set the vait date of a vote. reporter: you called it a deadline. jen: fair. thank you for the clarification. they set the time of a vote. reporter: democrats set this vote. now they are going to miss it. fail to make it.

joe manchin is in control. i think he's going to come in somewhere between $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion. >> and elena, my assessment is not fair. i don't think he was vague in everything. he was specific on some things including the climate change aspect of the legislation and what's been done in west virginia as he explained it to reduce the state's dependence on coal and shift more to natural gas and renewables. that may be the approach that would work for democrats in terms of winning over his support. congressman jim clyburn was on msnbc this morning and intimated maybe a more west virginia centric approach would be more effective with the senator from west virginia. watch. >> what are we doing about those institutions? what are we doing about the medicaid recipients or the lack thereof in west virginia? these are the things i think if you focus on them, that is what will appeal to manchin. not just arguing him about the number. but focusing on the people in west virginia that will benefit from the program

you have to push manchin hard. you have to move in his state. that's why we're not only running these ads, but we're preparing for sit-ins and other forms of non-violent civil disobedience in his state, in his own office. we don't intend to turn back. we learned in moral monday, you have to do it from the bottom-up and you have toot it in the states. that's what we did in north carolina and what we'll have to do in west virginia. >> reverend, because i think this legislation is so sweeping and so much of the biden program has been pushed into this one thing, a lot of people consumed by a pandemic and by their own lives don't really necessarily know what is in it for them yet. so i want you, having spent time in the state of west virginia, if you were to imagine a kind of median constituent of senator joe manchin, a median person in the state of west virginia, not unlike people in your state and elsewhere in this country, can you rattle off the list of the things that would change in that person's life from the cradle to the grave, because of thi

and i love joe manchin.he 435 members of the house that also have a right to have a voice in west virginia is not the only state in the country. >> and so, steven, more to the point from katie porter, i'm just wondering, is that impatience being reflected in what you are hearing from west virginia and do west virginians articulate that same criticism of senator manchin that katie porter articulated? >> yes. i think the thing in west virginia, though, is this is nothing new. it's what we've seen for 150 years, a government that doesn't belong to us. it belongs to the people at the top. people will say nothing can change, that this is somehow the fault of west virginia voters that senator manchin is the best we can hope for. that west virginians should be grateful for the boot on our necks because it's blue instead of red. the stakes are too high, jonathan. there is pain and death everywhere in west virginia right now. there's a reason we call our movement west virginia can't wait. in my hometown, we're losing

i don't have a number. >> that's the number that manchin -- >> that's what he tells you. going to be the package. >> that's what he told speaker schumer. >> i don't have an offer in front of me. my number is $3.5 trillion. you don't negotiate against you yourself. if you go to buy a house, you don't put down an offer and then suddenly say, okay, i'm willing to go down another $100,000. anybody done that? i don't think so. that's not how he negotiate. >> what you hear the congresswoman say is they're not negotiating directly. it's being done through the white house and also being done through the leadership and the house and senate and so either side is really unmoved in this process, and that means that this vote that's supposed to take place today on the bipartisan infrastructure package is really in peril. the house speaker has not yet pulled the bill or said she's going to delay it but what i was struck most by today was when she was asked about it, when congresswoman jayapal was asked, she said, we'll vote it down. they're not afraid to do that. and that position has

i think the democratic party has a manchin and sinema problem. a couple of months ago i was articulating that the hiccup that we have in the democratic party is manchin and sinema. whether or not you're talking about the $3.5 trillion infrastructure package and them standing in the way of child care, et cetera, et cetera, or whether or not you're talking about a prescription drug plan to actually lower the cost of prescription drug prices in this country, which we know does well across party lines, i mean it seems as if kyrsten sinema and joe manchin are stifling the progress of -- let me check my notes -- of democrats. it's the wildest thing that i've seen, and there appears to be no appetite. i know they had a meeting but there really appears to be no appetite to rein the fact that we now have a president joe manchin. >> david, i want you to respond because if you were advising president biden, what would you tell him to do here? because it seems like this is a legislative standoff where neither side wants to blink first. >> listen, i agree wit

senators manchin and? they already passed that in the senate.aucus afford to be the reason that that's held hostage and they could potentially fail, that they could end up with nothing at all? >> it won't fail because we'll have the opportunity to pause, not put it on the floor frankly and give us the opportunity, ana, to do as -- as you are so rightly saying, provide those dollars for our constituents but not leave the working and unworking women of america standing on the highway of despair. working women or women were the highest victims of covid-19 as it relates to the work nors and we're trying to restore that with a care economy but climate change was left out of the invest act and everybody recognizes the freeze that killed 150 people. here's what's important. we haven't walked away. we're walking towards a negotiation. the president needs to give us more time. the president needs to reinforce with the senate and these two senators in particular if they are representing others that they need to have a reasonable number to come to the tabl

senator joe manchin is still senator manchin and the democratic party is still the democratic party. here's what i mean. democrats are also working on passing a hugely popular $3.5 trillion spending plan through the budget reconciliation process that doesn't need more than 51 votes. unfortunately, senator manchin has said he won't support a $3.5 trillion price tag despite his state of west virginia desperately needing some of that. so what number will he support? that's a really good question. >> your party leader schumer says he's moving quote, full speed ahead with this package. >> that's fine. we talked about this. >> let's talk about the dollar sign. >> yeah. >> do you have a specific number in mind? >> here's a number you should be getting to. first of all, i have agreed to get on to the reconciliation. >> what's the number. >> it would be what's going to be competitive in our tax code. >> what's the overall number? >> i think you're going to have to look at it and find out what you're able to do. >> how do you know it's not 3.5? >> one, 1.5. >> you think ballpark, one, 1.5. do

manchin, with coal indust stri pressure.rce and thus it won't matter how much biden or the progressives want tospend. manchin has to be publicly against it for a while which leads tocenes like this. >> senator, so have you been clear with the white house about how much you're willing to spend on this human infrastructure -- >> we're just working. we're all still talking. >> is the white house clear on what you want? >> i think they're pretty much understanding where i am. >> so you don't care how much this bill is, you just need to -- >> i -- >> you want -- >> i do care about the bill. i care about the size of the bill. >> 3.5 is too high for you. >> that's pretty high. >> pretty high, like how high. like manchin, sinema not clarifying what amount of spending she this is right. she's holding the line against raising taxes in private conversations with democrats. she's fundraising and a fact check here. some of these great tax reforms would roll back trump's tax cuts which just brings them closer to the level that sinema hers

why is it manchin's upvotes so important? the democrats meet all 50 members to stick together otherwise it can't process on it. left-wing protesters heckled manchin at the capitol and called him a traitor. >> anita: we will see how they bridge that divide. in q and keep us posted. chad pergram on the hill. >> john: bret baier it is coming up but first let's go to capitol hill. >> if you go to buy a house, you don't put down an offer and then before an offer has ever been put them on the table suddenly say i'm willing to go down a hundred thousand. has anyone done that? i don't think so, that's not how we negotiate. we said consistently, 4 percent don't like it, and we understand we all have to come to the table so tell us what you want and we will figure out whether or not we can get there. >> thank you, congressman. >> john: just picking her up at the end, of course negotiations on that reconciliation bill continue. for more on this, let's bring in bret baier, the anchor of "special report." in terms of the bill, senator joe

did you mean to say joe manchin? >> joe manchin. sorry. >> we are confusing our joes. >> joe manchin. >> what is ironic is joe biden is a centrist president. he wasn't elected as a progressive. it is his agenda. this is not just a progressive agenda. >> that is right. >> you mentioned joe manchin, krysten sinema. they are the big holdups. according to the "new york times" she is reportedly privately told colleagues she will not accept any corporate or income tax rate increases. if that is the case, senator hirono, what is the point of all of this? why are we still acting like this is a group of equals negotiating when they are acting like hostage takers. these bills are dead if she won't agree to a single tax rise. are you one of the colleagues she confided that to? >> no. but she has obviously confided to people that, you know, now you know about it. i think this would be a really terrible position for krysten to take that she doesn't think everybody should pay their fair share of taxes. we know that the richest people and corporat

and today, manchin basically clapped back. we showed you the interview, and his office took what is considered a more serious step, releasing a pointed written statement, that avoided numbers, but did draw this line. basically addressing his own president, joe biden, and the democratic party, saying spending trillions more when we can't even pay for social security and medicare is the definition of fiscal insanity. end quote. for joe manchin, that's a lot, to call the plan that joe biden has endorsed, crazy. it's a warning shot. and as washington teeters close to a shutdown or default, the house is voting again to try to raise the ceiling, but jen psaki put the context of the next few days in the spirit of political television. >> well, this is why we all came to washington. it's like an episode of a tv show. i'm not in a position to look in a crystal ball here. >> which tv show? >> maybe "the west wing," if something good happens. maybe "veep" if not. >> "veep" is a comedy of errors that takes place in a town without principl

senator joe manchin joins me next. then his colleague, who is writing a budget bill that needs manchin's support to pass. senator bernie sanders will respond. stay with us. ♪ >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple loves camping adventures and their suv is always there with them. so when their windshield got a chip, they wanted it fixed fast. they drove to safelite autoglass for a guaranteed, same-day, in-shop repair. we repaired the chip before it could crack. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust, when you need it most. ♪ pop rock music ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! [sighs wearily] here, i'll take that! woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and now with two new flavors! i'm not hungry! you're having one more bite! no! one more bite! ♪ kraft. for t

i think there are pieces on climate change that are tougher to get past manchin.ending big. the question is how big. >> yeah, i think the counterpoint from manchin is would you rather have him, a moderate democrat, or a republican senator in -- >> 100%. >> right. >> 100%. it's one of the things that democrats run into trouble on when you see this venom directed at joe manchin from the left where if you didn't have joe manchin, you would have a republican and you wouldn't be able to start this conversation. >> right, right. so let's pivot quickly to the january 6th investigation. the congressional select committee in charge is pushing back on this claim from some republicans that the justice department cleared former president trump of any role in it. a claim that we have seen echoed by house republican leader kevin mccarthy. someone who himself said shortly after january 6th that donald trump does bear responsibility for what happened that day. what's mccarthy's strategy here? >> you know, he did say that. that feels like longer ago than -- i think it was 7 1/2 mo

it is obvious what manchin should do but will he hold the line?rnment socialism got a new method against today and people in washington don't realize what a disaster today is, 20 or 30 times the disaster of afghanistan, the daily mail road headline that said biden declares war on 80 million americans. you have a president thinks he has the right to dictate to everybody whatever his opinion is without congress passing a law, without any checks and balances and that is going to rip this country apart because if he can do it on this issue how many other things can biden instruct businesses about, how many of the things can he reach into your life? ironically kamala harris is my body, my choice, she was referring to abortion. my body, my choice, how come it is now president biden's body and his choice, this is going to boil all of the democrats back in the next week are going to have person after person coming up to them saying is the president just crazy? how could he possibly dictate to us and as you pointed out soleimani dictating to us that cuttin

and will manchin blow up the agenda.onight there will be an aaron sorkin like narrative or a laugh riot joke. >> well, this is why we all came to washington. it's like an episode of a tv show. . >> which tv show? . >> maybe the west wing if something good happens. >> here's where things stand this morning. the good news for americans is that hours before the government is set to shutdown, lawmakers reached a deal to keep it open. for now a senate vote is expected to fail, pushing the u.s. closer to defaulting for the first time ever. on top of this, the house scheduled to vote on the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. but democratic infighting is standing in president biden's way. >> this morning we don't know for sure if there will be a vote. that is one of the two key questions as of 6:01 a.m. it all boils down to this. will speaker pelosi hold a vote. number two, will joe manchin show his cards? house republicans say if there is a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure plan today, they will vote against it e

joe manchin is not for all the taxes but is for a lot of them. he wants the rich to pay more. senator sinema needs to know politically that is the most unavailable piece of this. people like free stuff but when you sit and watch these cash tronauts flying stupid spaceships into outer space and my mom pays more tax than they do? i can sell that in a campaign in arizona, senator. >> sure. it is popular when you poll to raise the top tack bracket from 37% to 39.6%. that is, that polls well. but it doesn't necessarily poll well in every congressional district. i don't know josh gottheimer's district. i think it is fairly affluent in northern new jersey. it might not poll well there. >> there are others too. there are other moderate members or members in swing districts who may feel the same way. but at the same time, many democrats are saying if you don't move this agenda, then we will lose the midterms. we will lose the house period. so the question for them becomes again when would you have to get this done by for people to be able to start feeling the real effects of this in or

we all started to find out what joe manchin wants. a document that he steined that he gave to chuck schumer saying here is where i start on reconciliation if we're going to begin this process. a lower corporate tax rate than democrats want to go for, an and agreement not to start dealing on reconciliation an degree ya, that is tomorrow, i don't think it is a kouns dense that he is suddenly sharing these now as the negotiations heat up. >> what is the president doing now to help the speaker? there has been conversation, you heard it, i heard it. that the president, they don't think, has been engaged enough and you saw those pictures of the speaker leaning over the dugout to talk to the president last night? >> that is right, the president has been engaged, but not at least publicly right now. the last time we heard from him publicly was approaching 72 hours ago on monday. i'm told they came by a senior administration official they spoke by phone yesterday and also they met with manchin, and the calls are growing with the president to b

$3.5 trillion bill, and senator manchin has a lot of power. he's also talking about the size and the scope of this legislation. he has never been supportive of $3.5 trillion. he thinks it is way too big, and now we're seeing reporting that he's talking about $1.5 trillion. now, some of my sources are saying that is something that is not new from senator manchin, but these negotiations are ongoing and the house, which is drafting this legislation right now, is taking into consideration the demands of senator manchin, and even kirsten sinema as well who also said she's not going to support $3.5 trillion, but are house democrats prepared to go down to 1.5 or even $1 trillion? that is an extremely tough ask. this is going to be a staring game, jonathan. and we'll see who wins coming out of it. >> nbc's lyanne caldwell. thank you so much for being here this morning. please stay on the story and come back. >>> despite claims from the taliban that its new rule would be less hostile and more inclusive than the last, the group's new leadership looks re

senator joe manchin joins me next. then his colleague who is writing a budget bill that needs manchin's support to pass. senator bernie sanders will respond. stay with us. you probably think visa is a credit card company, huh? ♪ but it's actually a network. ♪ connecting just about everyone to just about everyone else. ♪ it can open eyes with a cup of coffee and change minds on what makes a business, a business. and it is working to connect everyone, everywhere. so, meet visa. a network working for everyone. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple loves camping adventures and their suv is always there with them. so when their windshield got a chip, they wanted it fixed fast. they drove to safelite autoglass for a guaranteed, same-day, in-shop repair. we repaired the chip before it could crack. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust, when you need it most. ♪ pop rock music ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace

west virginia's senator joe manchin is joining me now.y much for coming in, i appreciate it. let's talk about the op-ed that you wrote, you can't support the $3.5 trillion bill until you get greater clarity on why that amount is necessary. most of your colleagues have been trying to give you that clarity over the past couple of weeks since you wrote that. your party leader, chuck schumer, says he's moving full speed ahead. will he have your vote? >> new yoo, he'll not have my vn 3.5 trillion. a lot of the help we put out is still there it's going to run until next year. what's the urgency that we have? we have that out the door at $2 trillion. on top of that, all of the things we come with a cares package and everything leading up to that. we have done an awful lot and a lot of people needing help. you have 11 million jobs that are not filled and 8 million people are unemployed. something is not matching up. don't you think we ought to hit the pause and find out the vulnerability that we have right now. we don't know what's happening with

you have to hold onto sinema and manchin, get them to the table. joe manchin is not negotiating. he is at 1.5. progressives are at 3.5. if you're getting this done, there's a window to get it done, doesn't seem like that window is going to last that long. if you try to push too hard on manchin and sinema, you'll lose them, push too hard on progressives, you'll lose them. doesn't seem like as tony said this has been happening awhile, doesn't seem like a lot of progress to be honest. >> we have been trying to be clear on the show about what's facing members of congress. government shutdown deadline. that's real, tonight. looks as though at 3:30, they'll have a vote and avoid shutdown. fine. second are buckets with two track series of bills, smaller roads and bridges infrastructure bill, bigger social spending bill. that's what's in flux. then there's the next thing, the debt ceiling. the potential crisis there that i know reporters like you that cover capitol hill are sounding the alarm bell, don't ignore this. >> this is the thing to worry about. remember what the debt ceiling is,

manchin made a point to me. he said, all we need to do is sign the infrastructure deal and sit down in good faith. the problem is the progressives want that bipartisan bill to be stalled and then they want that other larger bill to move forward first. john, unclear how this goes. at the moment that vote is scheduled for tomorrow, but it could also be delayed. >> there is trust deficit within the democratic family. we will watch as this big day plays out. manu, we appreciate the live kickoff. we have chief international affairs analyst, kasie hunt. this is the president now. he has a staff going to see senator sinema again. she was at the white house, i think, three times yesterday. the options are simply get a deal today, watch your agenda implode tomorrow or somehow convince everybody to take a timeout. the progressives say they were made a promise. >> and the reality, john, they don't have tremendous amounts of time given they have to put the debt ceiling on the government and put the screws to the two senator

joe manchin knows where he's at.e differences. >> axios obtained a memo about the plan to invest in the irs, we heard from the president yesterday. what did the memo you guys found, what does it say? >> so, the white house really wants to be careful about pushing back what they say, pushing back against what they say or miss about irs enforcement. if this moves through the entire process, house mays and means went earlier this week, there will be a big conference, the issue is what you say about bank requirements and reporting requirements. i know that sounds nerdy and wonky, but at the end of the day, for this to work, to spend additional $70 billion on irs enforcement, or $80 billion, whatever the number is, to get $800 billion potentially up to a trillion in -- you need to have the banks share some reporting requirements to see if anyone is doing anything dodgy in terms of $10,000 in income but a million dollars in in and out and flows. the white house says we won't be snooping on your bank account. we don't want

how is biden going to deal with manchin? and manchin is, again, out.go along. >> they're going big. the problem with president biden is senator sanders. this is a president who came in and said i'm going to work with the left, with senator sanders, my primary foe. >> bernie sanders and joe biden have a much better relationship than anyone imagined. giving him the leeway. this informs exactly where we are right now. manchin says they act like they're going to shove it down my throat. they can kiss my as. he voted for it after hours of education. you are going to come out of this looking like the dealmaker, biden told him. he needs manchin now, too. and is manchin approaching this like i was there for you once. that was it. . >> great question. i would say a president always has political capital. biden is going through a rough period now. he is still president of the united states. and what presidents can do we found -- it's extraordinary. not just the bull where pulpit. not just being commander in chief. again, this whole side of this being commander i

>> manchin didn't deny. he said he keeps his door open.m his own mouth. >> of course, west virginia is an energy state. of course joe manchin will meet with the energy industry and see how legislation will impact the jobs in his community number one. number two, aoc attacking joe manchin is beautiful for him. great politics for him. he wants the far left of the democrat party to attack him and it appeases republicans in west virginia. aoc is only helping joe manchin. >> harris: i'm not hearing some of the other names who might be moderates. where are they? >> great question. they are trying to stay under the radar for a little bit. i also -- >> harris: but if you don't have their support it won't matter if they stayed under the radar. somebody has to be doing a wellness check on them to see who might side with manchin. >> what i'm hearing from my connections a lot of people are laying their heads down and trying to read what is inside the bill. >> harris: that would be refreshing. >> trying to go towards this date. >> harris: speaker pelos

joe manchin, joe biden should have joe manchin at the white house every day this if joe biden wants toer 30th. they have the debt ceiling at some point. harold was to think it done this month? >> harold: look, everybody here is right, marc is right they need a win and steve is right the political talent will be tested. i hope in terms of explain to joe manchin, this moment we have to play smart and play big. think about where we were a year and a half ago we produced paper towels and soap for ourselves. now we have a chip shortage and another paper towel and soap shortage if we don't invest in supply chain. that is the argument i would be making to joe manchin and republicans alike. let them go home and defend that. $3.5 trillion something ambiguous come i think they are right. it is hard to defend. when you nail down what we are competing with ny, i think they can get closer to $2 trillion, maybe not 3.5 trillion if they make an argument here it's going all right, gentlemen many thanks and we will leave it there. when we come back tomorrow's headlines tonight. it's clinically shown to

it's just not manchin.sidents of west virginia, the residents of arizona. those arguments need to be made. and some democrats will have to deal with the fact is all of this money necessary, especially if some of it hasn't been spent in previous bills? >> yeah. john, as we're speaking there you see, of course, the president there, boarding air force one at joint base andrews. this, for his trip, as we mentioned, out west. john, there's a deadline here -- not quite a deadline. there's a schedule here, right, that democratic leadership wanted a vote by september 27th. that's two weeks from today on the infrastructure bill, which has already been agreed to. but the trouble is, it's wedded to the larger budget bill, at least in this two-track plan. i mean, is that september 27th date now in danger? >> dreams need deadlines, jim. i don't think nancy pelosi is a parl parli parliamentarian of the first order. i don't think she will lay out dates without being able to meet them. she's committed to the two-track proc

joe manchin revealed that $1.5 trillion number that. is far less than what the liberals want, which is 3.5 trillion, and the liberals want manchin to agree on something, and have actually a passage of that larger safety net plan before agreeing to vote on the infrastructure plan. they're concerned letting that infrastructure plan go would give away key leverage at a point in these negotiations. manchin earlier today in a back and forth with reporters for some time talked about that top line. and i asked him about his conversations with the white house. he made clear he floated that number to joe biden, but it wasn't enough for the president. >> you said you talked to joe biden about the $1.5 trillion number. what did he say about that? >> he wants -- he's really sincere. he would like to have a lot more than that. and i said mr. president, i understand that, just hopefully you can -- he's always been so respectful, he said, joe, i'll never ask you to go against your convictions. i think we want a lot of the same things, we want to help

joe manchin said last night the reconciliation bill is the definition of insanity. he talked about vengeful taxes. does that sound like someone open to fwoerks? >> yes. yes. >> reporter: how do you move forward with that on the other side of the democratic party? >> we're talking about substance. not rhetoric and not dollars. we're talking about what is important in the legislation. where can we find our common ground? if i paid attention to everybody's public states, oh my goodness, even some you inadvertently make that are not quite on point. but he says some other things after that that said i'm for reconciliation. did you see that? >> reporter: is he saying something privately to you or the president that gives you more hope that can move forward? >> you think i'm going to talk to you about my conversations with joe manchin in here? if you promise not to tell anyone. >> reporter: have you had a conversation -- >> look, i think joe manchin is a great member of the senate. we're friends. we're americans. we get along. catholic. we have shared values. i have enormo

joe manchin -- joe biden should have joe manchin at the white house every day this month if joe manchinoking at the end of the fiscal year so they got to fund the government beyond septum or 30th, they've also got the debt ceiling at some point. harold, how much do they get done this month? >> i think that -- look, everybody here is about right. marc is right, they need a win and steve is right, the talents are going to be tested, the political talent will be tested. in terms of explain and joe manchin all of these things, this moment we got to play smart and play big. think about where we were a year and a half, producing paper towels and soaps for ourselves, now we have a chip short it's where no going to have another paper towel and soap shortage we don't invest in supply chain. but the argument i would be making to joe manchin and republicans alike, let them go home and defend that, train half trillion on something that is a big heo was, i think they're right, it is hard to defend, but when you nail down what we are competing with and why we have to win, i think they can get closer

you just heard senator manchin right there.e said he disrespectfully disagrees and we shouldn't hold this hostage under the reconciliation bill. >> i think maybe the converse is true that maybe senator manchin is holding the reconciliation bill hostage. as you know, from day one, the president of the united states, the speaker of the house, majority leader schumer have made it clear we're going down a two-track approach. both bills are going together. i happen to think that joe manchin is right. physical infrastructure is terribly important, but i happen to think that the needs of the human beings of our country, working families, the children, the elderly, the poor are even more important and we can and must do both. everybody in america, whether you're republican, democrat or independent, understands that for the last many years, the very richest people in this country and the largest corporations have done phenomenally well while the working class and middle class of this country struggle and we've got close to the 600 milli

is it june manchin? is it september manchin? is it august manchin?ember manchin, will we see a different senator? their lack of consistency and their lack of homework is creating instability to the process because we cannot negotiate with a melting or moving object. reporter: liz, congress was able to do one thing today. they did pass a continuing resolution to keep the government from shutting down until december 3rd. that is heading to the president's desk. liz. elizabeth: hillary vaughn, great reporting there. good to see you again. let's get reaction from house budget ranking member jays smith. let's stay on this, congressman smith. you heard what alexandria ocasio-cortez said. "politico" is reporting way back since mid-summer in july, joe manchin always said 1 1/2 trillion dollars. we have details, we see what he wants in the spending package. the white house is welcoming the progressive bullying of moderate democrats to get the biden agenda passed according to "politico." "politico" said they never seen this. this is unheard of. they only won w

joe manchin will make peace with the progressives.e a bill in the coming weeks and the final price tag will be yet? >> i will predict the head sox are going to win the world series this year. >> i can't argue with you on that. 2.6? 2 .8? 3 trillion? >> you know, the answer, my friend j is blowing in the wind, but i know that joe biden, chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, are working very hard to make it the highest possible historic number, and bernie sanders and the progressive caucus in the house are going to be pushing to make it the highest possible number of as am i. i remain an optimist that ultimately this program is going to be good for every democrat to be able to support it at the end of the day. >> the danger of mixing me metaphors and sports in honor of the patriots/dolphins game this weekend. that's a punt but i understand, difficult days ahead. appreciate your time. senator from massachusetts, thank you. we'll keep in touch. with me in studio, reporters from politico, new york times, and the daily beast. he's not going to give

manchin put out a fascinating statement.re was another part where he talked about great nations don't spend themselves into fetal problems, so we've got to fix this. the divide in the whole democratic party between moderates and progressives is divided. you have joe manchin who ran as a moderate, get things done, he's the one who's supposed to resolve these issues. there are a lot on the hill saying the president is not doing enough to get if there and solve this. >> extraordinary moments last night where you saw speaker pelosi working the phones from the dugout at the game, trying to seemingly whip up some votes. john, a quick one, if it goes down in defeat, what happens next? what's the time line here over the next week? do we vote again? there's talk that the president might go home to delaware. how do the next few days, weeks play out? >> that's open for a lot of discussion right now. we're wrestling with the same issue. i don't know that pelosi puts this on the floor to lose, this infrastructure bill. it's a trillion-do

and i want you to respond to a few different points from senator manchin. he says, quote, i can't support $3.5 trillion more in spending when we already spent $5.4 trillion since last march. at some point all of us regardless of party must ask the simple question how much is enough? your response? >> yeah, first of all, of course the funding that was spent over the past year was in response to an emergency which was the pandemic. and now the economy is starting to recover and we have to look at the future. so the build back better agenda is over the next ten years. and these are investments that 17 nobel prize winners say that economists say that will put our country on the path to succeed in the future. addressing the middle class issues that other countries have addressed, for example, help with child care for the middle class, that we simply have not. so these are long-term investments. obviously joe manchin is concerned about making sure we don't have too much spending without pay force, but the good news is the president -- his agenda is fully paid for