now, judge marchand has already rejected both of those immunity arguments.e brief that he just filed a few minutes ago is i'm allowed to appeal that rejection by judge marchand. and while i'm doing that appeal, everything else has to be stayed. everything else has to be put on÷÷hold. trump's argument essentially is while i appeal the immunity issue, everything has to be put on hold, including the sentencing that's set for this friday. >> so what's the argument that the sentencing should proceed? >> i think the argument that you'll see in response from the d.a. and maybe from the judge is you might have been entitled to a stay, to put a hold on the trial itself. but the trial itself is already over. all we have left here is encing. and there's no harm, i think the argument would be, in going ahead with this sentencing, which will probably take a few minutes by zoom on friday. and then you, donald trump, can have your appeal. so it's really sort of a practical consideration of those procedural questions. what needs to come first, the sentencing or the appeal.

. >>> today, new york judge marchand rejected the attempt to over turn the hush money case. he will be sentenced on january 10th. he may appear virtually or in person. and judge marchand made clear that he would not likely sentence trump to jail but he delivered a passionate defense of the verdict. the significance that the verdict was handed down by unanimous jury of the defendants beers, indeed the sanctity and deference that must be accorded is a bedrock principle in our nation's prudence. in may a jury found donald trump guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in an attempt to illegally influence the 2016 presidential election. judge marchand described the case about one that is premeditated and contemptuous deception from the leader of the free world. he added, to vacate this verdict on the grounds that the charges are insufficiently serious given the position that defendant once held and is about to assume again, would constitute a disproportionate result and cause immeasurable damage to the citizens rees confidence in the rule of law. joining us now is the

judge marchand was always pretty firm that he would not be inked around on this. alex bragg made really good points about the sanctity of a jury verdict. the fact that 12 individuals came together and unanimously found that donald trump had done these things and is guilty of 34 counts and that his bedrock in our system. i'm not surprised that judge marchand refused the president's arguments but what may be surprising is what will come next. >> judge mershon wrote that the most viable solution is an unconditional discharge. what does that mean? >> an unconditional discharge is essentially that the conviction stands. but we are not imposing any conditions as a condition of his release. there will not be incarceration, punishment, restitution. he will basically just be convicted. that by itself is actually quite significant. he would be the first president in the history of this country coming to this inauguration bearing the label of convicted felon. and to be very clear, the new york times did a review of other connections to these fraudulent business crimes and th

and marchand, to was really specific. the protections that he recognized today, they belong to the office, not the occupant. almost reminding trump again, as we've heard other judges say, presidents, even presidents with immunity are not kings. >> venmo we heard donald trump speaking during the hearing after yesterday, calling it a little thing he had to do. what is his plan for appeal? right. >> he maintained inside the courtroom when he had the opportunity to speak. and then in a truth social post upon leaving the courtroom, that they intend to see this appeal through. and, of course, in last night's rejection of the stay by the supreme court, they indicated that he has the opportunity to go and to argue that he was protected under the presidential immunity decision by the supreme court from having some of that evidence presented to the jury that donald trump says and his legal team say should inoculate him from the guilty verdict that was decided on a unanimously by that jury back in may. but for donald trump, there is

look at part of the ruling in which judge marchand explains why.writes in part, quote, it seems proper to not impose sentence of incarceration, a sentence authorized by the conviction but one the people concede they no longer view as a practical recommendation. a sentence of an unconditional discharge appears to be the most viable solution to ensure finality and allow the defendant to pursue his appellate options. unconditional discharge will most likely also include no probation or fines. donald trump is unlikely to face any major consequence for that guilty verdict back in may, alex. as the judge noted, he expects an appeal from donald trump and his team. his legal team has consistently said they intend to do so. of course, january 10th comes just ten days before inauguration. and once he is sentenced he will formally be a convicted felon at that point in time, alex. >> indeed. okay. thank you very much, vaughn, for that. >>> let's bring in peter baker, msnbc political analyst, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" an co-author

the sentence was handed downy new york judge juan marchand less than two weeks before the president-elec is set to take the oath of office as the 47th president the united states. the president-elect will remain a convicted felon but face no jail time forhe4 counts he was fod guilty of by a jury in may. on truth social the president said he plans to appeal this decision calngt a despicable charade with no merit. "theeajury, the american people have sken by reelecting me with an overwhelming mande in one of the most consequential elections in history. as the american people have seenth case had no crime, no damages, no proof, no facts, no law, only a highly conflicted judge, a star witness that a disbarred, disgraced serial perjurer and criminal election interference."

but i want to criticize judge marchand here. i think he blew an opportunity to teach.could have said. but for this supreme court action. but for your becoming president in a few days, i would have sent you to prison, particularly because you're a recalcitrant criminal. now, a lot of people have gone to prison because of my stories, some of them for such long sentences. they died behind bars. >> and in every case where the criminal defendants spit in the face of the judge, which is what donald metaphorically did throughout this trial. >> even today at the sentencing, they got tougher sentences. >> in one case, a judge literally doubled from eight years to 16 years. >> the prison sentence of one of the people whom i exposed. and i think the judge had a great opportunity here to teach the american people, most of whom don't have our level of knowledge about law and politics, about the system and how it should work. >> and he didn't take advantage of that. and i think that's a tragedy. >> well, we're going to leave it there. i will disagree with you on judge mershon. i thi

but what judge marchand did every step of the way, starting with adjourning it to september, and thenthe heat of the election, saying, you know what, i'm not going to do this until after the election. all of that was bending over backwards in deference to the defendant. obviously. uh, defendant trump gives judge merchan credit for nothing. and, you know, dirty judge, crooked judge. but from what i've seen and with the specific reasons i gave you, i think judge marchand couldn't have been fairer. and some might say he was fair to a fault, not me. i think he did the right thing. >> well, let me ask you and give you the quick final word here in terms of what happens next. who is going to oversee this appeal? and do you think that the principle behind trump's decision to keep protesting this is sound? >> i do think that there's a good ground for an appeal. and who's going to do it? susan necheles. you know, she's a phenomenal attorney, a great appellate attorney. she's been on this case throughout. and even though the other two attorneys are going to go work in the doj, he already has som

today new york judge democratic donor juan marchand announced trump would receive no jail time, no fine probation after a manhattan jury convicted trump on what is a bizarre legal theories surrounding the case that had no victims. it was a legal and d.a. put together by a lawyer and it was chronic code has a legal defense. the judge told trump sir, i wish you godspeed as you resume your second term -- assume your second term in office. donald trump will rightly appeal this bogus conviction and his sentencing. president-elect blasting his attempts to weaponize our system of justice. take a look. >> this has been a very terrible experience i think it has been a tremendous setback for new york and the new york court system. this is a case that alvin bragg did not want to bring he thought it was from what i read and from what i hear inappropriately handled before he got there. a gentleman from the law firm came in and acted as a district attorney and that gentleman from what i heard was a criminal or almost criminal and what he did. it was very inappropriate it was somebody involved with my

trump face the possibility of up to four years in jail but judge juan marchand opted for no punishmentl be protected by presidential immunity when he is inoculated in 10 days. >> trump the ordinary citizen, donald trump the criminal defendant would not be entitled to such considerable nations. it was the citizenry of this nation that recently decided that he should once again receive the benefits of those productions. sir, i wish you godspeed as he was soon your second term in office. >> martha: -- >> trump says he will appeal this case the timing of that is unknown to. >> trace: brian at live for us outside the courtroom thank you. we bring an attorney and fox news contributor andy mccarthy. great to have you on the show. it occurs to me when you look at all the balls in the air on this think it really was alvin bragg and juan marchand wanting this conviction for the president-elect is that a fair assessment? >> it is, trace. i think they got really nothing out of this they were going to get nothing out of this the one thing they wanted to insist on was that trump get the scarlet lett

you go to what's called the appellate division, which is basically across the street from judge marchand's chambers and seek a stay from them, an emergency stay from the appellate court saying, tell judge marchand to knock it off until the appeal can be heard. i think that's extremely unlikely they'll file the papers, but i think that will come back, you know, very, very quickly because friday is coming up so soon. >> so this is going to happen. >> i think it's very, very likely now. mr. trump then, is perfectly entitled to appeal the conviction. and he does have 1 or 2 bases for doing that. now, under normal circumstances, given the judge has indicated there's going to be no jail time, it's the lowest level new york state felony. and it always was very unlikely there'd be jail time. and whether there's going to be a fine or not, i think is really the only thing that's up in the air. so it's really the symbolic issue is that mr. trump really doesn't want to be labeled a felon. and so that he could appeal that. but mr. trump would certainly have some grounds for an appeal. i don't think the

. >> judge juan marchand denying president-elect trump's bid to dismiss the case, and instead signalingve trump any jail time. the trump wrote the most likely sentence will be an unconditional discharge meaning no punishment at all. jail time was considered unlikely for a first-time offender. trump called the case a witch hunt by a democratic d.a. and a trump spokesman saying there should be no sentence at all. >> we know president-elect trump got a victory with speaker mike johnson's re-election today, but there was a bit of drama. >> the vote was held open for an hour after three house republicans voted to block johnson from retaking the speaker gavel. a huddle urged johnson's conservative hold outs to back him and two changed their vote. >> look at this, more lake-effect snow in upstate new york. we are also following a big new storm system forming. bill, serious weather ahead, huh? >> tom, the biggest storm of the winter. sleet, freezing rain, heavy snow and maybe a few tornadoes over the weekend. we are really watching kansas city to st. louis at the start of the weekend, and by th

and i think that when judge marchand explained that as far as history is concerned and the record reflects to the naked eye, donald trump walked out of court or would have walked out of court today, a free man, he was on zoom. this, if anything, is exhibit a in what you are talking about with respect to america having a two tiered justice system, the power, the privilege, the resources, over $100 million have been spent in terms of donald trump's overall nexus of legal entanglements over the last couple of years. >> yeah, and donald trump supporters would say, what a horrible waste of money this was political persecution. >> sure. >> and at the same time, those are also the same people who would argue that this is a country of laws. we're a law and order people. we respect the system because the system does what it's supposed to do. and quite frankly, in this moment, we have seen the system and where it's flawed and where it's broken. but those people that you just mentioned are quite okay with that. >> david, donald trump and his supporters are going to shake this off. they're going to sa

now that this is over and talk to us more about judge marchand's closing message in this case. >> right. the courtroom is beginning to clear out, and the court is officially adjourned after seven weeks of trial. and then ultimately, today's sentencing here and the judge merchan ended by giving him the unconditional discharge sentence and saying, quote, at this time, i impose that sentence to cover all 34 counts. but his parting line to the incoming president was, quote, i wish you godspeed for your second term in office. thank you. and i think to the point that you guys were making here, this is quite a moment coming. ten days before inauguration, the supreme court had the opportunity to step in last night in order to issue a stay. donald trump has argued that presidential immunity should extend to this transition process. but then the case should have been entirely dismissed. that's what his attorneys argued in not only to judge merchan, but also the appellate division. and, of course, they will have the opportunity to appeal this verdict and are going to argue that some of the materia

but i think under the circumstances, judge marchand did everything he could.ything that charles wrote in his piece for msnbc. it isn't exactly justice. >> so, joe, let me ask you to follow up. do you believe how do you believe history will judge merrick garland when you look at the resignation of jack smith? right. and you think about what could have happened had this investigation started immediately after merrick garland came into office, with all of the evidence that had already been gathered by the impeachment inquiry into what happened on january the 6th and the classified documents case. could history have been different? and what do you think history will say about merrick garland? >> i want to say, first of all, that merrick garland went to my high school, so. but i don't know him, and he was many years after me. i don't think it will view him. i think that we have to go back before his appointment as attorney general. we have to go back to his failure to be part of the supreme court, where he would have done well, and the fact that as a result of his

it started with judge marchand telling in advance what his sentence was going to be. i've been doing this for 62 years. i've never been told by a judge what the sentence is going to be. when i go into the courtroom with my client, i tell him to bring his toothbrush because he doesn't know whether he's going home or going to rikers or some other lockup. the only reason, marchand said in advance what he was going to do is to try to persuade the two justices of the supreme court not to take the case now, and they use that fact. and they said, the reason we're not taking the case now and stopping the sentencing from going forward was because the judge said in advance that he's not sentencing him to prison. so this was a ploy. and the two justices unfortunately fell for the ploy. this is the worst thing that's happened to the american criminal justice system since mccarthyism and the civil rights abuses back in the 1950s, and the victims of the american people. trump. yes, it was hard. he said very honestly that it was tough for him. but he prevailed. he won, and the ameri

so there's the appeal of judge marchand's immunity ruling. remember the supreme court decision on immunity came out after the trial. so there were arguments raised by the defense team that certain evidence should have never made it into the courtroom because it would have fallen under some of the parameters of presidential immunity that were set forth in the supreme court's decision. so that's one aspect of the appeal that we know is going to be pursued. and by the way, that's new law. that law is going to be shaping for decades to come. so that's certainly going to be a very novel issue for the appellate court. and then we have all of the issues relating to the constitutionali ty of the trial and conviction. and while there's many issues that the trump team will pursue, the most novel issue and the issue that will that will have some teeth for the trump team is going to be whether or not under the proposition of federal the supremacy clause of the constitution, that a federal a federal statute can serve as the predicate crime for this state

even while trump was making statements about marchand and his family in the hallways, the person, the voice you heard on the bench today is the judge who presided over this case, keeping an even keel. and, as you could hear, being very judicious in his statements and thoughtful on them. pam. >> all right, karen, thanks so much. and thank you to everyone. still to come on, this very busy friday morning, we are following breaking news out of southern california. now, five fires ravaging that area. we're going to bring you the latest on the devastation and efforts to contain the blaze. up next super man, the christopher reeve story. >> february 2nd. >> on. time to press rewind with neutrogena rapid wrinkle repair. it has derm proven retinol expertly formulated to target skin cell turnover and fight not one, but five signs of aging with visible results in just one week. neutrogena i have another pancake from full house to empty nest to free birds. >> vanguard. we got this. 50 years of helping you invest for every chapter. prime's exclusive wild card playoff game is coming. >> the steelers

let judge -- but judgment one marchand said he would not sentence a president elect a prison time.le that the conviction on charges of falsifying business records still stands. that is a judge ruling. earlier monday, the president elect's lawyers had filed an appeal in new york to overturn two recent rulings from this judge that upheld the conviction. they urged the judge to postpone the sentencing. remember, donald trump said to be ushered back into that -- set to be ushered back into the white house on january 20. that is the latest on that case. we will bring you updates as they come into us. in the final days of his presidency, joe biden has announced a ban on new offshore oil and gas drilling on large stretches of america's coastal waters. he says he wants to protect these areas for the country's children and grandchildren. donald trump has vowed to revoke the band immediately, but as michelle fleury explains, the protections are difficult for future presidents to override. correspondent: the band which prevents oil companies from leasing land off the coast is an attempt to pr

and so what what judge marchand did today with his decision was something that was a function of what he had to do because of the other decisions, like the immunity decision that came from the supreme court, i get that, but what he also did was a difference without a distinction. there is a difference between donald trump, the candidate, donald trump, the president, and donald trump the civilian. and i think that when judge marchand explained that as far as history is concerned and the record reflects, that's accurate. but to the naked eye, donald trump walked out of court or would have walked out of court today, a free man, he was on zoom. this, if anything, is exhibit a in what you are talking about with respect to america having a two tiered justice system, the power, the privilege, the resources, over $100 million have been spent in terms of donald trump's overall nexus of legal entanglements over the last couple of years. >> yeah, and donald trump supporters would say, what a horrible waste of money this was political persecution. sure. >> and at the same time, those are also the

the final word will be judge marchand's. laura, as you noted, an important thing will happen at the end of this sentencing. it will become official. we will have what we know as a judgment of conviction. at that point, his conviction will be official, but not quite necessarily final. as you said, donald trump still has his appeal rights. now we are in the trial court in new york. they call it the new york supreme court. very confusingly, i didn't make the names. but donald trump then has the ability. he has the automatic right to appeal up to the appellate division, maybe to the highest court of new york, the court of appeals, and ultimately, laura, we could end up right back where we were last night with the u.s. supreme court. we'll see if they take it. that's a long way down the road. so today we're focusing back on the trial court, where you're sitting outside of laura coates. >> and of course, the idea that it was a54 decision, we might not have even been at this moment, he has been pushing not to have it sentenced. and

the resistance has been broken, only a few dead ends like george marchand who will announce he was sentenceded hush money case this friday. no jail time, he just wants to get one last whack at the bad boy. the resistance will regroup eventually, definitely for more than a snowball. but this presidency is about to start with a bang, so get ready, and happy new year. former house speaker kevin mccarthy joins me now. should kamala harris had called in sick today? >> i say a lot of bad things about kamala harris, i was a something different, i respect what she did today. she stood there, she said it while it was tough and she was professional. >> jesse: joe biden, you probably saw this behind closed doors, losing it with reporters. >> it is a sign it, mentally the anger, the cussing, i told you about it early on. they would attack me at the white house, kevin is lying! now chuck schumer is trying to backpedal, these are the same stuff i saw, nancy pelosi was right next to me. >> jesse: and he is banning oil and gas drilling off the coast? he knows trump can on bandit. >> this is the world, whoev

the judge marchand said he doesn't intend to give mr. trump any jail time.in new york found rudy giuliani to be in contempt of court today for failing to cooperate in the handover of millions of dollars in assets to to armor election workers he defamed. they say rudy giuliani has displayed a consistent pattern of willful defiance in supplying what is needed to pay down the defamation judgment against him. the judge has yet to detail what specific penalties he could face. the venezuelan opposition leader met with president biden today. u.s. recognizes gonzales as the winner of last year's disputed presidential election. he is on a regional tour. maduro was set to start his third term later this week. outside of the white house today gonzalez would not reveal what he and mr. biden spoke about but said the meeting was long and fruitful. >> we are grateful for the support that the government of the united states has given us in the struggle for democratic recovery in venezuela. we will ensure the road to restoration and democracy is paved as soon as possible. ge

how powerful were judge marchand's words to trump? >> he sentenced trump to an unconditional discharge, as he promised he would. he said it was the only lawful sentence he could impose to respect both the sanctity of the jury's verdict, convicting trump of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, and also the duties of president that trump is about to undertake. but kyra, he took pains to tell trump that he was treated like any other criminal defendant in this courthouse. it did not stop the president elect from complaining that this had been a terrible experience. he came in virtually sitting next to defense attorney todd blanche, who he's nominated for a top post in the justice department. against a backdrop of two american flags. just extraordinary to see the president elect in that moment beaming into the courtroom virtually while the judge imposed the sentence, trump listed his now familiar complaints about his treatment and the case. but prosecutor josh steinglass said the imposition of sentence cements trump's status as

he was already here to talk about judge marchand denying donald trump's appeal, trying to block his sentencing date this week, of friday. but now this is really in the last few minutes, really just five minutes ago. there is apparently a filing in florida with donald trump's remaining co-defendants in that florida case. they are also claiming that this report should not be released, it would be prejudicial to them. but there is an awful lot to get into, as you know, releasing these reports in the past has been routine. but what is also so striking about this is that it is signed by todd blanche who donald trump has chosen to be, starting sometime after january 20th, the number two and number three at the justice department they are writing to. they will be in charge of this. as of january 21st or thereafter. and so the clock is ticking on the garland justice department and jack smith report and whether we will see it at all. >> it just lays completely bare in case there was anybody who wanted to pretend otherwise that this has to be released before the new administration takes over because the

that came down from judge marchand and the preview in terms of what could be expected for tomorrow.use we tend to focus on actual fact and actual laws we we are not in a contingent. we have a case and return 34 guilty verdicts. our function right now primarily is to continue to be a voice of that verdict and respect is a principle. bedrock principle of the administration of justice. >> so today very interesting scene jimmy carter the 39th the 39th president of the united states funeral at the national cathedral. in a moment you could see all living presence and there is a lot of water under the bridge for a lot of these individuals. that was the handshake between president trump and mike pence. site karen pens do not shake president trump's hand and this was interesting some chatting between chris and eight -- trump and president obama seated next to each other instantly had a lot of talk about the whole group they probably did the most chatting throughout the course of the period win everyone was waiting for this service to begin. vice president harris sat in front of him at one mo

that's what judge marchand is signaling that he will do. and it makes sense, because once this election happened and trump was reelected, the die was cast. he was not going to prison. he was not going to be supervised. the only option really was a fine. and the maximum fine here is just not high enough to make any difference to trump. so you might as well not issue any sentence at all. that makes the conviction final. trump can pursue his appeal, but it makes it much less likely that the sentence will be stopped. so i think it actually was wise. i think we want closure here. we want these felonies to be finalized. that's what the people should want. what the jury verdict indicates. so i think it was actually wise of judge merchan to proceed this way. >> it's interesting, maggie haberman, that the judge is now allowing trump to appear at the sentencing hearing virtually. how has his reelection changed his view towards these cases? what do you know about the reaction inside the trump world right now? >> so the trump team, wolf, is debating wh

i think the only reason they let this whole sentencing go forward is because judge juan marchand signaledly on that he was not going to incarcerate donald trump. that's why i think they let this go forward. and i do think at the end of the day, once this reaches the court again, that i just cannot imagine that conservatives are going to let this, this conviction stand. i think they're going to overturn it. >> do i think it's quite likely? and i totally agree with anthony's assessment. i think if there had been any sense that he might be in some actual danger on friday of some sort of punishment, they would have killed it off. i mean, i think they were fine to let him have a bad press day, but anything more than that, they seem very eager to prevent from happening. >> yeah. okay. can we just talk about what, to me, looks like a conflict, and that is justice samuel alito talking to the president elect on the phone, they say about some sort of job thing for someone that the justice knows and that they didn't talk about the case. they didn't talk about the case at all. i'm sorry, i oh, i don'

but i also think judge marchand's hands were tied here by the supreme court.ss he said ahead of time there would be no punishment, supreme court was unlikely to let this proceed. and it turns out he was right, because in the supreme court's order, they said, well, you know, because this isn't any punishment, we'll let this go forward. so again, he had limited options in order to be able to do what he wanted to do, which was really preserve the jury's verdict here in this case. >> okay. kristen greenberg, thank you very much. this may be a little shorter than usual, because we are competing with the white house to get to our next guest. so we'll take a break here as we get some new information we hope to about the efforts to get help to the california wildfire victims. fema regional administrator bob fema regional administrator bob fenton is schedule if you're frustrated with occasional bloating or gas, your body's giving you signs. it's time to try align. align probiotic was specifically designed by gastroenterologists to help relieve your occasional bloating

but i think to to judge marchand's point, i mean, the election happened months after trump was convicted. people, the american people, had enough time to take this guilty verdict and to to digest it. and still it didn't bother them enough to not reelect him. and that's his argument. >> you know, people have said that donald trump has just completed the greatest political comeback ever in our history. maybe i'm not a political expert, but legally, think back a year and a half ago. i don't believe there's ever been another human being in the history of this country who's been under four separate, simultaneous indictments in four separate jurisdictions. he was looking at four trials. any one of them could have resulted in his imprisonment. and now here we are. this is it. an unconditional discharge on one of the cases. completely impossible to have predicted this a year and a half ago. yeah. >> he pulled off this incredible political comeback. but at the same time he is going to be making history. he is going to be entering the white house as a convicted felon until he is able to deal with

but when you see ridiculous, idiotic judges like marchand, it's a disgrace to this country. it's an embarrassment to this country. and we've got to get these guys out of office. >> one of the committees that you're assigned to is the homeland security committee, and we had some, you know, dramatic happenings both in new orleans and then in las vegas. we've also had secretary mayorkas for a long period of time, i think, deceiving the american people by claiming that they had operational control of the budget or the border and that they had control of it. and i don't think any of that is true. so what are the early plans for homeland security to try to clean up a department and agency that includes fema? it includes the secret service, it includes the tsa. it includes, you know, so many different departments and agencies, including all the different things that the different avenues of border. so what can you do from homeland security standpoint? >> well, the first thing i do is we got to get kristi noem in there. we got to get again, trump's nominees in there confirmed quickl

give us a sense of what it was like in there, lisa, and walk us through judge marchand's decision. >> well, chris, it was totally surreal to be there because many people, me included, anticipated that this day would never come, particularly after donald trump won reelection to the presidency in november with 312 electoral votes. a fact that he reminded judge of when he had the opportunity to speak. but in terms of imposing the sentence of unconditional discharge, which mershone did today, that's a sentence that carries no penalty associated with it whatsoever. no fine, no jail time, not even community service or probation. judge merchan said that, look, the situation presented a number of aggravating factors, including the willfulness of donald trump's conduct and its seriousness, as well as his lack of remorse and his deliberate endangerment of the judge, the prosecutors and their families. but still, he said, the most important factor of all were the constitutional protections that are that a president is entitled to. and given that while he said very clearly that's not a mitigating

marchand elected. these people are elected by the people. and they took their jobs in public service and used them for political ends. instead of using all of their time to throw the bad people in new york, which there are plenty of them on the streets in jail. that's the real, lasting impact of this. the abuse of the system for political purposes. when new york city is descending into a hellhole right now. >> well, call me the former prosecutor here. on this point, i don't know that i can bridge the gap immediately, as my two colleagues have to suggest that the pure motivation was a political result. i understand political process. i mean, prosecutorial discretion leaves many people wanting more information as to the why they choose some cases and not others. but politically, as we mentioned, i mean, there are a lot of democrats who wanted some sort of consequence, truth be told, and they're not getting it here. should democrats even approach this politically, given the concerns raised by scott and others? >> well, there are 34 convictions

and judge marchand needed to say in his decision last week, and he even mentioned that he wrote about what he was going to say and doesn't need to do that again. >> chuck, we heard judge merchan say the only lawful sentence without encroaching on the highest office of the land is unconditional discharge. what do you make of that? >> well, i think he's right, ana, in the following sense. most sentences, almost every other sentence i've ever seen, certainly in my time as a federal prosecutor, carries some penalty. right? so if not incarceration, a fine or restitution or supervised release or probation, all of those things potentially could extend into mr. trump's presidency. and so what judge merchan was trying to do and did it effectively, and we can talk about the strategy, is make it clear that there would be no penalty. there would be an entry of judgment today and the trial is over. there's no tail on this case in terms of an encroachment on the duties of the office of president. and that resonated with the supreme court. if you look at what they did last night, that was important.

we actually got the audio and listening to it, it was it was really dramatic listening to judge marchand, who of course, donald trump has spent the better part of a year, maybe even more than a year, really trashing as somebody who is biased and so forth. the judge clearly wanted to, as cara suggested, maintain an even keel. the kind of comment, though, that he made was very clear and deliberate. uh, kind of what you said, which is this is not so much the fact that he is getting no penalty, so much about what he is convicted of doing. it's about what he is about to become. let's watch. >> the considerable indeed extraordinary legal protections afforded by the office of the chief executive is a factor that overrides all others. to be clear, the protections afforded the office of the president are not a mitigating factor. they do not reduce the seriousness, seriousness of the crime or justify its commission in any way. the protections are, however, a legal mandate which, pursuant to the rule of law, this court must respect and follow. >> so, to sum it up, the what the judge is saying is th

railed against you, railed against all of the witnesses, and then goes to the sentencing where judge marchand telegraphs, don't worry, you're not going to be sentenced. and if you want to come on the video, that's fine. he shows up via video and it still rails against marshawn lynch. as i said last hour, the man is has the goat has won the gold, has won the prize, and he's walking out still swinging i don't under i don't understand it. also worth noting that the lawyers that defended him in this case are now going on to work in the justice department. so you know what? you know what? >> that simone, you know what? donald has taught us all that there are people that are above the law, that when you hear, you know, we're a country of laws without justice. yeah, that's an accurate statement. and worse than that is that the law is not applied equally to all citizens. there are three sets of laws. there's for you and for me and for the average joe and jane. this for those that are powerful, whether it's politically powerful or financially super powerful. and then, of course, there's donald trump.

that earlier, and even in his fundraising notes this morning, he called judge merchan, acting judge marchando continue to see, i think, the sort of retribution, but it's going to be, i would imagine, stepped up. once he gets the levers of power. things like irs audits are going to be possible. other legal avenues that i would imagine that he's going to take. i think we're going to see a whole kind of just separate, almost apartment running about revenge. you know, he he always talks about how the deep state exists and how, you know, the democrats have used the justice department to go after and to weaponize it against him. and it's exactly what he's going to be doing, whether or not what he claims is true. they are going to be using it and they're going to be weaponizing it. i would expect it, and i'm kind of bracing for it. >> i mean, that is what makes this audio all the more extraordinary. these weren't people running around with 80. i mean, i hope they have all the security they they need and that the threat environment would justify. but these are people doing their jobs. and again, i'm

george marchand rejected that.hose issues have not been fully resolved in the new york courts as they will be, but because sentencing is coming up today, donald trump turned to the supreme court to try to get them to stop the sentencing while those issues get aired out. host: talk about how it is received by the court. justice sotomayor's name was mentioned in the decis, why her name? guest: each justice is assigned a part of the country, a circuit or state, and they handle emergency matters. they are the point of entry. in some cases, justice will decide on his or her own bigger matters, they refer to the court, but basically it was submitted to her, she referred it to the full court and they voted 5-4 to reject the request. host: talk about the 5-4 decision and the chief justice and amy coney barrett training with the three liberal justices. guest: those are the two most interesting because they were part of the majority back in july when the court said presidents have immunity. john roberts wrote that decision.