and marcus childress, tim parlatore, thank you both so much. look, no matter how this case actually ends up, and we don't know how it's going to -- we don't know what. all this is certainly perhaps not the way joe biden wants to. when so, how will it all play out in the race for the white house? i'm going to talk about it next. >> fatal legal blow or political adrenaline shot? while trump's 14th amendment appeal is going to have a very big consequences, both in the courtroom and, of course, on the campaign trail. going to talk about it all, former white house senior adviser now your hike nayerra haq and -- democratic strategist in particular, you don't want the assumption that you are winning only because trump is not on the ballot. you want to be able to say, i beat you, trump, fair and square, again. is this problematic politically for them to have all these removals? >> who is going to argue about the fair and square, if he does indeed win the electoral college and biden win the popular vote, like he did last time? the idea is democrats and

marcus childress, tim parlatore, thank you both so much. look, no matter how this case actually ends up, and we don't know how it's going to end up, we don't know at all, this is certainly not the way perhaps that joe biden wants to win. so how will it all play out in the race for the white house? we're going to talk about it next. >>> fatal legal blow or political adrenaline shot? donald trump's 14th amendment appeal is going to have very big consequences, both in the courtroom and of course on the campaign trail. here to talk about it all, former obama white house senior director naira huck and former republican congressman joe walsh. listen, you guys were hearing the last discussion. and we've obviously heard a lot about colorado. i would expect that if you're a democratic strategist in particular you don't want the assumption that you're winning only because trump's not on the ballot. you want to be able to say i beat you, trump, fair and square ag again. is this problematic politically for them to have all these removals? >> well, who'