joining me now are jamal simmons and margie omero. thank you both for coming on the show tonight.erent. the shutdown is killing the gop, isn't it? >> yes. listen, we saw this happen in the 1990s. the republicans tried this, it didn't work out very well for them. a lot of people weren't believers. they weren't around. they weren't paying attention. a lot of these people were doctors and insurance salesmen and lawyers and school teachers. whatever they were doing before they ran for congress, they don't really understand how politics works. at the end of the day you've got to be willing to cut a deal. the business people in the republican party feel like they're being left out and don't get to have a say. they know if we don't raise a debt limit, we're going to kill the national economy. >> but margie, we've seen they come back with a proposal to extend conversations to extend the debt limit as long as they're having conversations on the budget. yet keep the government shut down. i mean, they just don't get it, i do that i? >> no. they're in a fantasy world where what they're doing