she also had -- before the -- the debacle that was -- the insult to marianne anderson. eleanor invited her to the white house, she had stayed in the white house. eleanor had talked about her voice in the column and said singing, hearing marianne anderson singing is like sitting in the lap of god. and after the concert, eleanor went july 4, 1939 to richmond, the capital of the confederacy, where she give marianne anderson the spring arm medal and gives a speech on -- in non confrontational terms about the horror that unequal education inflicts on the united states. so in many ways to me, the back story of marianne anderson is how this extraordinary woman got the courage to come up and shift from being an artist to a symbol which she knew absolutely she was going to become, she was terrified of doing it, i talked with her before she died. and the courage s

. >> let's end with you giving us the back story to the iconic concert that marianne anderson gave at the lincoln memorial. >> well, i love eleanor roosevelt. i love franklin roosevelt. their pictures are in every room of my house. we have to give harold ickes a shoutout. he's the one that really got the lincoln memorial. we need to give both roosevelts credit for is eleanor's understanding of how to use her newspaper column, "my day," to turn this concert in from a local, i.e., regional washington, d.c., slap in the face, to turn it into a national civil rights event. when eleanor resigned from the d.a.r. in 1939 that column goes on the front page of 483 newspapers, and marianne anderson stays on the front page of 483 newspapers for seven weeks. and it's eleanor who goes to the radio programs to say, you -- you know, basically in polite eleanor language, which i will never in my life be accused of having, if you want me on the radio, you need to carry this. and so it's eleanor's pressure on the radio stations that make it the first live coast-to-coast nationally broadcast radio event