back now with sarah with the center for human rights, and mario papa paparozzi. is this living out the idea of why we find people in the first place if we basically turn them over to private companies to enter this sometimes permanent cycle 6 repayment and chasing a fine that never gets built down? >> what you heard that they don't have the hour o resources to collect fines, and that's why they're charged a fee, and that's absolutely ludicrous, and at the end of the day, nothing is being accomplished. if you put somebody on probation, and they continue to not pay their fine, and they go out and commit a heinous fine the public is going to say you were negligence for not putting them in jail for a $50 fine. it's a broken model. it doesn't serve the purpose of punishment or restitution, but all its doing is generating income for somebody on the back of somebody who can't afford to pay the fine. >> but it does support the purpose for paying for government services in a place where they don't want to collect taxes to pay for those services. there's something appealin