marks esper actually crunched numbers as a former defense secretary would. at is not the case. inflation adjusted terms it is still a cut. kind enough to join us now. mark, good to have you, the fact of the matter, everything is cut in inflation adjusted terms, even allowing for 2% increase with inflation running triple that, you're actually, you know, getting priced out here so that is a feature you don't like? >> yeah. look i think it's good we have a potential deal that would avoid default. that would not be good for the u.s. economy and by extension would not be good for the united states national security but on the other hand when i see built into it a cap on 3.3% for this year which is inadequate to begin with, that is proposed by joe biden because we're currently at 5% inflation. so you lose a couple points there. then by fy-2025 if the report something accurate it would only allow for a 1% increase. again we don't know what inflation will be. i have argued now for several years, when i was defense secretary, secretary of the army we should have three

coming up, sandra, mark esper, the former secretary of defense and the former el paso mayor dee margot will react. >> sandra: the verdict is in as we told you earlier, we know ed sheeran has been found not liable, john. this just in from that u.s. district courtroom a few moments ago, our producer said ed sheeran stood up and hugged his team, knowing that he had said before this and before this court hearing this week that had he lost, he would be quitting music, john. this is just in to us now, the verdict. >> john: and you know, you talk about what part of the song is like the chord structure is identical, d, and d and f sharp bass to a, and then d, f sharp minor, a, the chord structure and the tempo exactly the same, marvin gaye's was recorded a half step higher than ed sheeran's was. but the melody is completely different, and typically the melody that is -- what is at issue when we are talking about copyright infringement. >> he's been so upset his grandmother passed and he was not able to attend, his father told attendees he was too upset to do so as the court case was ongoing. l

but the notion that mark milley or mark esper or any of the people that sort of kept the guardrails ofe, laughable. instead, you would have people like jeff clark, who would happily have rubber stamped another -- and i guess i wonder, does no one in washington see a problem with that? >> oh, i think many, many people in washington, and presumably throughout america, would -- the first time -- this very, very sensitive positions, without any kind of senate oversight or confirmation. i mean, mike flynn, who is a national security adviser, for a few weeks at least -- that is a sensitive a job as you can have a white house. and he serves at the pleasure in the nomination of the president. he doesn't have to be confirmed. steve bannon was in the white house. jared kushner was in the white house. i mean, go down the list. so, you can put a lot of people there without getting any kind of consent and getting senate confirmation. so, yeah. we know at this point that he will try. he will try to go as far as he possibly can. and if there's one thing we have learned is that he will get away -- he

mark esper, former secretary of defense. mr. secretary, you heard what the general had to say there. w what's your opinion of the drone that coincidentally blew up when it flew by the flag. >> i think it was an attempt to embarrass the kremlin by knocking down the flag pole off the dome and the general offered one theory, two other theories are that ukrainians in russia, not associated with kyiv, the government in kyiv, who decided to take this action. or as has been said by former russian lawmaker, russians who oppose the putin regime who did the attack. so, clearly there are a lot of options here, it was not us, it wasn't zelenskyy's government and the russians trying to get something off of this, decide to try and rally the russian people around putin by suggesting somehow it was an assassination attempt. so we cannot believe that theory at all. >> john: you don't think it was a false flag event then? >> i actually don't think so. i think it's possible, but again, i think it was some other group out there that was trying to e

joining us former defense sec father mark esper, was fired days after the 2020 election by president i wonder what it must have been like to be you watching that -- those exchanges over ukraine and russia last night. >> well, for the entire evening in some ways it's always shocking but not surprising. on the specific issue though of ukraine, i was, obviously, disappointed. i think, you know, a clear majority of the american people support the ukrainians. i think the republican party a clear majority also support the ukrainians, at least congressional leadership do. it's the wrong message to send. it doesn't help the ukrainian cause. it emboldens putin in many ways and will affect disunity within the alliance. i am sure many of our nato partners are asking the question about trump's comments and what does it mean for the future and what's the possibility that he could become president again. >> that's actually what i want to get into a little bit if we could dig in on the tangible effect, right. people think these are just words or of course this is where he is going to land. what in

that question was from erica and her questioning of mark esper. just building on this and we want to move on to china with you, but it appears that, and this is how the new york describes it on the front page, the position that white house has held that any weapons provided to ukraine should not be used against russia, they both issued statements that the united states does not support strikes inside russia, quote, as a general matter, but nothing that marked nothing on tuesday marked the 17th time this month that russia struck kyiv, meaning they think that your language is hedge ago bit. is the white house's position changing at all? >> no, not at all. i apologize, erica, for the mess take there. not at all. look, we have been very consistent since the beginning of the war. we want to make sure that ukraine has everything to defend themselves as they get ready to go on the offensive here in the summertime, have everything they need to do that successfully. we don't want to see the war escalate beyond what it's already visited on the ukrainian peo

want that the pressure on turkey should increase after the elections, ex- us secretary of defense mark esperated in his article for fox muses. according to him, washington, his allies should demand from ankara immediate approval of sweden's entry into nato, president erdogan was given more than enough time to do the right thing if he does not budge from the ax to sharply increase pressure and take the necessary actions. which will give stockholm the green light, otherwise we risk sending a signal to moscow. the west has already seen how disunity is able to cope with such pressure, and erdogan has already seen in military matters, against objections , buying russian s-400s and in energy yes, in the green light of the qui nuclear power plant. from this, apparently, he received the status of a dictator about democracy overseas is seen differently. so they are betting on the key-yes corner, however, and speaking of rapprochement with nato, he does not forget to mention maintaining friendly relations with moscow's presidential candidates clearly and openly declare changes in relations with russia

about that pressure on turkey should intensify after the elections, ex-us secretary of defense mark espery stated in his article for fox muse according to him, washington, its allies should demand immediate approval of sweden's entry into nato from ankara, president erdogan was given more than enough time, to do the right thing, if he doesn't budge, drastically increase the pressure and take the necessary action that will give stockholm the green light, otherwise we risk sending moscow signal. the west has already seen how disunity is able to cope with such pressure and the erdogan has already seen in military matters, contrary to objections , buying russian s-400s and in energy yes, in the green light of a nuclear power plant , apparently, and received the status of a dictator from democracy overseas, they see to another. so they are betting on the key, yes, and he, speaking of rapprochement with nato, does not forget to mention the preservation of friendly relations with moscow, presidential candidates clearly and openly declare relations with russia changes not planned we cooperate on

mark esper. mark, good to have you.w so much a conversation which in the past would not be a big deal. in this environment it is deemed a big deal. is it? >> i think it is important both our countries talk. we have ongoing dialogue about any number of issues, both which we agree, those which seem to be the majority now which we disagree. we reached a low point last summer when nancy pelosi went to taiwan rightfully and then of course, another low point when we learned that chinese spy balloon was traversing the united states. so it is important that we talk. but look, also coming on that discussion between the foreign minister and our ambassador was the foreign minister's accusation that the poor relationship between the china, between china and the united states is all of america's fault because of decisions we've made and rhetoric that we've expressed. so they continue to blame this on us, when just the opposite is true. neil: you know, one of the things that we have been saying is that the chinese are going to secret

i think he got rid of mark esper as well.lling you there's no fraud, it really starts to swing the notion that you're deliberately pushing out a lie. >> you mentioned the doj. "the new york times" story that mentions this investigation says team seeking information about how white house officials approach ed the justice department, which mr. trump turned to after the election loss torks try to stay in power. people familiar with the question said including in that story that a steven miller ally, who they tried to place his liaison in the justice department who said just don't come here anymore. what are we looking a at? >> really extraordinary that the justice department said no when barr was such a loyalist. willing to spin the truth on his behalf. but even for barr, this was too much. the idea of just installing these obvious lackeys to come in and the effort to do that, again, goes to the intent and state of mind of trump that he doesn't really care what people are telling him. that if they don't tell him the right thing,

defense who served under both democratic and republican presidents, including people like sent mark esperta, bill cohen, bill perry, chuck haguele, down the line, they all wrote a letter to the senate leadership and said this hold on 200 general and flag officers is undermining national security and com bad readiness on a bipartisan basis, every former secretary of defense. and i think it is really telling that the republicans and other senators on capitol hill won't take this on. they won't move the military nominations forward. and it is undermining morale, undermining readiness. if a family can't move to another assignment, they can't choose schools for their kids in the fall, spouses can't get jobs. they can't figure out where they are going next. and this is really damaging to america's national security. >> you get the last word. >> he is radical, heis ridiculous, he is reckless, he is way out on a limb and he is happy to be there. he has become senator red neck. who is the person that will pick the ridiculous position that would piss off the world, undermine the military, the same

loyal to him played out over -- esper was tired of it because of the same dynamic, it played out over and over and over again. >> but it is a little bit convenient that markdocuments, i can't show them to you, but they prove that he is lying or was wrong. and i think that it speaks to the sort of trumpy logic where you tell a fanciful tale and try to cover for yourself. i remember this fight with milley and susan glasser writing about it, and it really did occupy a lot of trump's mental energy for a long time. so you could see how he might, you know, fan tab uhe liz about it. >> and again we have this subpoena for liv golf. we'll sneak in a break and then continue to discuss this reporting. n continue to discuss this reporting. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (water splashing) hey, dad... hum... what's the ocean like? ♪ are there animals living underwater? ♪ is the ocean warm? yeah, it can be very warm. ♪ you were made to remember some days forever. we were made to help y