>> these comments coming from mark esper on "state of the union" with jake yesterday and former attorneyeral bill barr, we will see that his poll numbers will go up with every indictment that he has gotten, so when you have mark esper and bill barr, i should say both of them basically had falling outs with the former president, the then president over and around january 6th, and so both of them have been critical of him since then, but nothing like they have said very publicly in the clips that you just played and much, much more, because they are focused right now not just on january 6th which we should mention that jack smith, the special counsel, still has the investigation going on this, but just about the notion of having the classified documents, and why he had the classified documents and the reason for that, and both for esper, and more specifically and more bluntly for bill barr, they are saying it is because he has a serious character flaw that they believe it should prohibit him from being president again. >> i want to turn to another former ally turned critic chris christie w

and joining us now is former secretary mark esper.> let's start with the indictment of your former boss. you have plenty of experience handling classified documents as secretary of defense and secretary of the army. what was your reaction when you learned from the indictment that trump had all of these documents pertaining to very sensitive topics, classified topics, just lying around mar-a-lago and in some instances, showing them to people without classified clearance, allegedly. do you think his actions put america's national security at risk? >> the revelations are very troubling, disturbing, and yes, i do. if the allegations are true that it contained information about our nation's security, about our vulnerabilities, about other items, it could be quite harmful to the nation. and look, no one is above the law. and so i think this process needs to play out. and people held to account. the president held to account. >> you work close with trump. i've heard two different theories as to why he had these documents. one from stephanie

and i think what mark esper said is really a dire warning if donald trump is reelected for a second termd was irresponsible and it put the lives of service members at risk. as you said, rahel, we also have heard some very strong criticism from former attorney general bill barr. he's repeatedly gone on the airwaves to talk about these charges and the seriousness of them and he said that the charges are damning and that donald trump is not a victim in this. let's listen to what he told cbs news yesterday. >> would he put the country at risk if he was in the white house again? >> he will always put his own interest and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else including the country's interests. there is no question about it. there is a perfect example of this. he is like a defiant 9-year-old kid always pushing the glass toward the edge of the table defying his parents to stop him from doing t it's a means of self-exertion and exerting his dominance over other people and he is a very petty individual who is always put his interests ahead of the country's. his personal gratification of

. >> that of course was donald trump's former secretary of defense mark esper suggesting trump could security risk if elected again. donald trump's indictment for allegedly miss handling classified documents continues to cast a shadow on the 2024 presidential race. and his rivals are fielding a barrage of questions about it over the weekend. one focus, whether they would pardon trump if he is convicted. >> you have been asked a few times whether you would pardon the former president if he was convicted and you were president. would you? >> i just think the question is premature. >> if you were president biden, would you pardon him right now? >> i just think this whole matter is incredibly divisive for the country. >> will you sign on to a pledge that our next guest is asking all gop candidates to sign on to that you would pardon donald trump if you became convicted? >> i won't deal with hypotheticals. but i will say that every american is innocent until approach guilty. >> ron brownstein is back with us. do you think the electorate will accept that ambiguity? >> the promise to pardon

defense secretary mark esper. mr.thanks very much for joining me here in "the situation room." i just want to get your quick reaction, first of all, to this latest deadly russian strike on this civilian area right in the city center of krematoris, killing, injuring a lot of people. no military targets nearby. just trying to create terror and havoc. >> it's horrible, going on for 16 months. in the early days of this conflict, putin was bombing maternity hospitals and daycare centers, executing people in the streets. there are war crimes that have been committed, continue to be committed. at some point in time, russians will be held accountable. >> putin putin personally? >> putin will be held accountable. >> for war crimes? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> what's going on right now, do you think this wagner mutiny, it's being called, is going to affect putin's war in ukraine? >> yes. at the tactical level, it has the impact of taking a very capable player off the battlefield of ukraine. over the past 16 months, it's been

thank you so much, mark esper, former secretary of defense, thank you, sir. so bret baier on the question from jacqui heinrich, surrounding the president's fitness to serve for another four years, interesting history on all of this. we will talk to bret baier in just a moment, and professor jonathan turley has a big meeting just took place a short time ago between the attorneys for former president trump and the doj with regard to the documents. my retirement funds allow me to enjoy what i love to do. as long as you can make an impact, why stop? we're traveling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. wh-who wants to talk about their heart! [honking] how's the heart? how's your heart? how's your heart? - it's good. - is it? aah, i don't know. it's okay. - it's okay! - yeah. - good. - you sure? i think so. how do you know? it doesn't come with a manual, and you like ooh, i got the 20,000-day checkup, right? let me show you something. put two fingers right on those pads. look at that! that's your heart! that is pretty awesome. with kardiamobile

those are damning comments from mark esper and bill barr there. >> and both being painted as traitors. >> brianna. >> a potential step in the right direction. tony blinken seen here after a quick stop in london to brief president biden after meetings with officials and including a meeting this morning with president xi. as tensions between the two nations continue to be at an all-time, both countries are touting some progress but key sticking points remain. >> very candid, very in depth and in places constructive. and in other places we have a lot more work to do. >> cnn national security correspondent kiley atwood is live in beijing on this. decipher that diplo speak for us. how did this go? >> well, listen, i think the biden administration is actually feeling pretty good coming out of these two days of meetings because what they got the chinese to agree to was the need to stabilize the relationship. and that was really the key motivation going into these two days of meetings for the secretary of state. can the u.s. and china get in the same room and really have a real honest dialogu

aimed at. >> you know, there's something disgustingly arrogant, though, david jolly, because before mark espern and took the job gates, secretary gates came out against him. the hubris -- and you can go on and on every agency is like that. literally all the republicans that were on tv sunday were preceded by people that had had their jobs before them telling them exactly what would happen if trump were the country's commander in chief in charge of our national security agencies and because they're some of the same arguments that were made by hillary clinton and democrats they were all discounted until republicans get the job, they see the frankenstein up close, they go holy -- bill barr's favorite word and they come out and get in front of a camera and say don't do this. then there's always another crop of republicans who go in and make all the same mistakes over and over again the ball wark has a great list of all the rensz who've broken with him pence, barr, mattis, esper, pompeo, tillerson, mulvaney, kelly, mcmaster, bolton, pottinger, spencer, alyssa air farrah griffin, stephanie grisham,

. >> we did hear earlier today here on cnn from the former defense secretary, mark esper, he was on cnn'sstate of the union" and he had this to say about the chinese relationship with the u.s. take a listen. >> you can see their actions since last fall have really picked up, whether it's confronting our aircraft in the skies above the south china sea, our ships in the taiwan strait, balloons over the united states, all of these things show an increased chinese kitt as try to gain dominance over the united states. look, it's important that we realize, this is the greatest strategic threat we're going to face in this century and esht be surprised by chinese actions. >> as for them calling china the greatest strategic threat, others call them the pacing adversary. do you think that the u.s. is keeping pace with china? >> no matter how you use the terminology, the sheer fact is that china's power rising mili militarily, diplomatically, in every way they can manage. no, the united states is not keeping pace. relatively, we're becoming less powerful, vis-a-vis china. that is only a problem if w

it comes as the 2024 front-runner is getting slammed by his former defense secretary mark esper who was asked on cnn whether mr. trump can be trusted with national secrets. take a listen to what he said. >> based on his actions, if proven true under the indictment by the special counsel, no it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at ricks. imagine if a foreign agent, another country were to discover documents that outline america's vulnerabilitys or the weaknesses of our military. these are very serious allegations and need to be taken seriously by everybody involved. >> joining us today, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian and nbc news correspondent halle berry on the campaign trail. also eugene daniels, tim miller, writer at large at the bulwark and former u.s. attorney, harry litman ken, what are the new instructions from the judge to trump and his lawyers? >> jose, this is a standard protective order that's present in almost every case it essentially -- it specifically says that the defendant, dona

. >> thank you both for helping us breakdown that tape, joining us now is mark esper who served as secretaryfense in the trump administration, secretary esper, thank you for joining us tonight. we wanted you to come on to talk about russia, and the monumental events that are happening there, we will get to that in a moment. but given this breaking news, and this stunning audio, i wonder what it's like for you to hear the audio of your former boss, the former commander in chief talking about what we are told is sensitive military documents in this manner? >> yes, it really is stunning caitlin, to hear it. it sounds familiar in some ways, now we talk a lot about these instances in my memoir, or i categorize how every few months ago we would come back to this issue about iran and what to do. i can, say mark milley worked for me for nearly 18, months which was most of trump's tenure that we were together, and he never advocated for attacking iran. if anything, chairman milley and i will wear the reluctant warriors in the cabinet urging caution, urging restraint. that kind of his what strikes me

and mark esper served as defense secretary. >> based on his actions, again, if proven true under the indictment by the special counsel, no. i mean it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk. you not have these documents floating around. they need to be secured. >> on face the nation, bill barr called the former president, "a flawed person who engages in reckless conduct." >> this was a case that entirely of his own making. he had no right to those documents. the government tried for over a year quietly and with respect to get them back, which was essential that they do. he jerked them around. he had no legal basis for keeping them. >> reporter: for his part, mr. trump has maintained his innocence and pleaded not guilty to 37 counts in federal court. still the cbs poll shows trump leading his gop rivals in the race to become the republican nominee. >>> and coming up. was it a sweep in l.a. where the dodgers were able to stop the giants? these are all questions that vern glenn is far more qualified to answer. we'll have

we're seeing former defense attorney mark esper saying the similar things.nd his former chief of staff said that he's the most flawed individual he's ever met. there's republicans that have worked with him closely coming out to critique him. thus far, no one that is contending him is willing to put their neck out saying that what trump did was wrong and we need to break away from him. >> i was going to ask you how the gop candidates tackle this. the silence is conspicuous. but it's so challenging. they want to retain the support of trump's base. it's unusual to have presidential candidates not expressing a defensive institutions and setting standards about presidential behavior. how do they negotiate that? >> they're in trouble. the republican party has become an authoritarian party. the party itself has shifted. it no longer has a lot of the elements that we'd see in a democracy, where there's checks and ball lances within the part. you're not blindly obeying what the leader of the party says. and going along with it no matter what. even if it comes to brea

the former defense secretary mark esper. you see preparations by ukraine. hear the military intelligence chief saying plans for the attack have been drafted and approved. these aren't general words. these are specific words. what does that make you think? how real is this threat? >> it's hard to tell. we have heard these threats, these possibilities for many, many months now about zaporizhzhia being bombed or sab sabotaged. i assume it would have a tactical affect if ukraine gained ground. i don't see how it benefits russia. whatever fallout radioactive from the plant destroyed, the reactors exposed, would drift across russia and the parts of ukraine that are being defended now by pro-russian ukrainians. i think it would be a terrible strategic impact for russia itself, let alone the rest of the world as that would blow around -- continue to blow eastward. >> you know, i know the foreign minister told me putin loves life and those around him love life more, which was the most significant part of his statement. you are at a point where putin's power may be u

mark esper is the latest ex- cabinet official to criticize the former president's handling of classified documents which has put him in legal jeopardy. >> based on his actions, if proven true under the indictment by the special counsel, no. it is irresponsible action that places service members at risk. you cannot have the documents floating around. >> meanwhile one of his predecessors at the pentagon agreed with his opinion. >> absolutely not, he has been incredibly reckless, irresponsible, careless in the way he has handled classified documents. he has behaved like a six-year- old trying to hide cookies from his mother. it is unexplainable why he would do what he did. just reading the indictment makes clear that this president definitely put our national security at risk. as a result of that, frankly he should not be trusted with classified documents. now or in the future. >> former president trump was indicted on 37 counts in connection with the classified documents he kept at his florida home after he left the white house. he has pleaded not guilty to the charges. >>> we are in the m

mark esper, thanks. >>> pay back is -- well, you know the fraez. a phrase. and kevin mccarthy is finding it out when conservatives revolt. >>> and then the investigation into the shooting death of a mom raising new questions about the stand your ground lieu. 're reing our network... for total confidence and complete control. ♪ ♪ fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. ♪ move it! ♪ how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost... just another word for not as good as mine. the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is now only $899 save $200. plus, 48-month financing on alleds. shop now only sleep number. - this is our premium platinum coverage map and this is consumer cellular's map. - i don't see the difference, do you? - well, that one's purple. - [announcer] get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carrier. starting at $20. consumer cellular. the subway series is getting an upgrade! the new #19 the pickleball club. who knew the subway series could get even better? me, i knew. m

his national security adviser, mark esper, his defense secretary.ompeo, is secretary of state saying this is unacceptable behavior. the other candidates running haven't been even willing to cite that testimony. much less reach that judgment themselves. especially in the anniversary of the race, chris and asa hutchison. given the deference to trump. he generally, the indications are that his lead is expanding. inside the republican coalition as this unfolds. >> and ron, mean time, president biden is lifting listing all his achievements on climate change. in what could prove to be a very close race. biden has doubled, quite literally, at times. how, will his waist be for him given the constant reminders of his age. and whether he's actually up to the task? >> first, i think today was a really good revealing day of what we're going to see from joe biden. between now, and of ember of 2024. in that, rosemary, he touted both sunday that went to california from the bipartisan infrastructure act. and hundreds of millions of dollars of funny that went to cal

trump's own senior, you know, officials, his attorney general bill barr, his defense secretary mark espertional security advisor john bolton. all have made the case this is very serious set of facts and it raises fundamental questions about whether he's fit to be president again. you really aren't hearing that from democrats and i think there is ambivalence whether they're letting the republican arguments go unanswered to too great an extent. >> well, there's time. we've got a few more months until that election. thanks so much to all of you. boris? >>> still to come, authorities estimate there are about 40 hours left of breathable air on that mismissing titanic submersible. getting salvage equipment the priority right now. we're going to be talking to a close friend of one of those onboard. >>> and china may be footprint across the florida strait, in cuba. how the secretary of state is responding to all this fresh off his trip to beijing. we'll be right back. and relentlessly work with you to make them real. ♪ my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike som

. >> mark esper says he should not be trusted with the nation's secrets again if the allegations are >> well, based on his actions, again, if proven true, under the indictment by the special counsel, no, i mean, it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk. places our nation's security at risk. you cannot have these documents floating around. they need to be secured. >>> and to another republican presidential hopeful, chris christie said sunday, it was a useless idea to force republican contenders to sign a pledge to back the party's ultimate nominee in order to participate in primary debates. >> the former new jersey governor who kicked off his presidential bid earlier this month said he expressed his views on the pledge directly to republican party officials. >> look, i think the pledge is just a useless idea, you know, we're republicans. and the idea you support the republican whether you won or whether you lost. you didn't have to ask somebody to sign something. it's only in the era of donald trump that you need somebody to sign something on a pledge. so

joining us the former secretary of defense mark esper. it's good to have you.ew name to many people waking up this morning. tell us about him and the significance of this reporting. >> sure. let's go back to the past weekend, right. so prigozhin launches his tirade against putin on friday, saturday he has troops moving towards moscow. i don't believe he started that on his own. i think he thought there was support within the russian military to include surovikin, as one of those supporters. by the time saturday plays itself out, he realizes that support does not materialize and thus he has to cut ta deal where he leaves for belarus. the important thing to understand all these men have known each other many years. prigozhin and surovikin go back to the syrian civil war where surovikin is credited for turning the tide in the regime's favor. surovikin is considered a brutal but competent commander. he is thrown into the fray last fall in ukraine and put in charge of all russian forces to stop the ukrainian counteroffensive. he is successful in doing so, but then,

50,000, over 180,000 wounded in action, russian husbands and boyfriend, now former defense secretary mark esperpoke earlier about the war with neil cavuto. >> it's a serious issue and ripples in multiple ways. it impacts the war in ukraine. if wagner leaves the battlefield you lose a tenacious and capable force. of course, there's this, what putin calls the armed rebellion against his rule. although it more about prigozhin versus the defense minister sergei shoigu. >> and vladimir putin 23 years of rule in russia, russia processes the largest stock pile of nuclear weapons and that's concerning here in langley and the pentagon. >> you mentioned so far 50,000 russians soldiers have been lost in this war effort and of course, it's no secret that they're suffering from low morale. we saw a couple of weeks ago a russian soldier pleading for his life from a drone from a ukrainian drone. is it possible that the leader of the wagner group prigozhin, is seizing on that low morale and counting on that? >> as you just heard from griff and the general, you know, these wagner troops, these mercenaries were

. >> brian: mark esper was on cnn yesterday what do you think about this audio came out. mark he is officer secretary of defense said i find it odd because it sounds like multiple pages one thing about the president, no matter what the briefing was, no matter what the topic was, one place, supposed to be a place mat presentation. i'm not sure if there is anything that we had given him that doesn't sound like anything we had given him. so, it's going to be interesting to see what is he actually holding up. and if it's just audio and not video. what we find amazing we never hear from robert herr's investigation. we always hear from donald trump's investigation. amazing it always goes to the "new york times" and cnn. >> steve: maybe trump's side is leaking. >> brian: trump's side is leaking audio? why would his side leaking audio. >> steve: maybe leaking a lot of stuff during the entire process. >> ainsley: trump was in new hampshire and so was ron desantis. those were the two leading republicans. even though trump, according to the latest nbc poll is winning by a lot. is he

leadership the earth has already passed the statement of another former defense minister, but the us mark espersponsoring ukraine if it does not achieve success in a large-scale offensive. let's listen. then other countries follow suit, but we hear from experts that for the west, this is the last decisive battle , everything is at stake, and they will never retreat on their own . the maximum that can be expected. it's freezing back conflicts telling who's the general, who's not the incumbent. once again yet since there is a probing, probing public opinion, such examples can be cited a lot, such conversations were, and when the taliban began active operations in afghanistan , they were exactly the same, then vilely and cowardly fled from this afghanistan, leaving there those people who worked for the americans, and so on again i want to say that in the united states absolutely do not care about zelensky in ukraine, his entourage and the ukrainian people. generally. they have their own strategic goal to weaken europe there . practically destroy it, what is now to this yes, depriving them of the c

it was bill barr saying he's toast but you also had defense secretary mark esper and former national security adviser john bolton those are the clips you showed but it's also vice president pence who has come out against him on this indictment, his former secretary of state, mike pom p p p pompeo >> as you say, so much of this draws on the evidence of what he did and then when you get into mixed claims, as we call them of law and fact, bill barr, as i've mentioned, he's given legal analysis and given beyond it of what may motivate donald trump, his view of why donald trump doesn't ever care about the public interest. you're getting that picture filled in. here's a little bit more of the bill barr. >> the legal theory by which he gets to take battle plans and sensitive national security information as his personal papers is absurd it's just as whacky as the legal doctrine they came up with for having the vice president unilaterally determine who won the election >> one, what do you think of that analysis and, two, as someone who has worked in the same justice department and had your p

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i've mentioned before mark esper, mike pompeo, robert o'brien all still travel with full-time security details after the strike, because they're still targeting him on u.s. soil. this is an adversary nation. to have war plans sitting at a country club is so incredibly dangerous. >> john, in your opinion, this conversation has been accurately described by sources. does this add to the likelihood that jack smith, special counsel could see a charge of destruction. >> the conversation that is on tape apparently does certainly show intent, and does certainly show a rather reckless disregard for standards if he was indeed putting out a good bit of information from what was in this apparent classified memo, but yet not letting people actually see it as a very fine line. so i think it does show his very loose attitude toward complying with the regulations that govern and the laws that govern national security information. >> john dean, kaitlan collins, alyssa farah griffin, thank you. >>> joining us is olivia troye, who served homeland adviser to vice president pence. in your mind, what is the

and joining us now, mark esper.company at risk. thank you mr. secretary for being with us. first big question here, is this a successful trip if the goal is to open lines of communication and to set a floor, has this administration done it? >> if that is the aim, yes, i think it was successful. i'm a little concerned about the events leading up to it. we seemed a little too anxious to have this meeting happen which plays in to the chinese narrative. and i'll want to make sure that we don't take our foot off the gas when it comes to important policy issues that need to be pursued as we compete against china and in some places confront them. >> so in terms of the important policy issues being raised, we heard about a number being raised from secretary blinken. is there something that you think was missed? >> well, i don't think opening more commercial flights are anything that important. the things such as taiwan, the war in ukraine, china stealing our intellectual property, those are fundamental differences between o

mark esper, former defense secretary, spoke with cnn earlier today about whether trump should be trusted with national security secrets if these charges are proven true. let's listen to that. we'll talk about it. >> well, based on his actions, again, if proven true, under the indictment by the special counsel, no. i mean it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk. you cannot have these documents floating around. they need to be secured. >> should donald trump ever have access again to classified documents, top-secret documents of the united states? >> absolutely not. he's been incredibly reckless, irresponsible, careless in the way he's handled classified documents. you know, he's behaved like a 6-year-old trying to hide cookies from his mother. i mean it's just -- it's just unexplainable why he would do what he did. just reading the indictment makes clear that with 37 counts, that this president definitely put our national security at risk. and as a result of that, frankly he should not be trusted with classified document

mark esper told my colleague jake tapper, watch out. >> do you think trump can be trusted with the nation's proven true, under the indictment by the special counsel, no. i mean, it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk. >> and trump's former attorney general bill barr warned trump is a child. >> he is a consummate narcissist. he will always put his own interests and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else. there's no question about it. this is a perfect example of that. he's like a defiant 9-year-old kid always pushing the glass towards the edge of the table defying his parents to stop him from doing it. it's a means of self-exertion and exerting dominance over people. >> subtle. >> can you try to figure out what he actually means, phil mattingly? particularly as parents, he knows, everybody can relate to that, who has had a kid. do you think that any of that is going to penetrate with the republican voting electorate? >> look, i think the hard part here, is we think of it like a monolithic election. there's a perce

mark esper. kind enough to join us.p happening. wore grateful if we get a handshake with a chinese official. it just seems lopsided and weird. >> yeah, neil, it's not new as jennifer said. when i was secretary of the army in 2018, i visited our sites in alaska and told stories of similar incidents where chinese tourists were found outside the gates of our military installation. this has been going on for years. as i was said, the finn opens up a espionage investigation every 12 hours. >> neil: what were the tourists doing this and how did they explain they were there? >> it was not explainable. i didn't go into that much detail at the time. they were taking pictures and said that they got lost. how you get lost in the middle of alaska, you know, when you're talking about single roads. it's astounding. >> neil: this brazen activity is not new. we can talk about the balloons, fresh activity going on as we speak. this very provocative action on the chinese fighter jet over the south china sea with an american plane. more a

. >> i thought it was interesting, kaitlyn did an interesting interview with mark esper who expressedcern about he said, we were generally concerned about the handling of classified material within the white house writ large. interesting to get behind the scenes and know top people were worried then let alone after the president left. >> one of the things i get concerned about, yes, what trump can reveal and all that, up until donald trump, there was also this feeling republican and democrat, that we don't reveal classified information. this is about as holy as you can get in a secular government. now you have half of the country talking about -- everybody is talking about overclassification. this isn't a big deal, stuff like that. that's a concern to me what the damage is long-term to classified. >> overclassification is a concern, but this does not fall into that. this is a military plan about invading iraq put together by the national defense op rat us of this country. iran. excuse me. it doesn't get any more serious than that. this isn't some marginal document that was maybe class

. >> and here's trump's former defense secretary mark esper, also just hours ago this morning. >> the are very troubling, disturbing. >> do you think trump can be trusted with the nation's secrets ever again? >> based on his actions, again, if proven true, under the indictment by the special counsel, no. it is just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk. >> so, why are former members of trump's cabinet speaking out so strongly? because our national security secrets, including intelligence assessments about military capabilities and nuclear capacities of other countries is something that for decades, democrats and republicans have largely protected. they have done this through presidential transitions, through major disagreements about how to wage the record, how to approach nuclear capabilities, or how to withdraw from afghanistan, just to name a few. because by protecting those secrets, they protected the men and women serving in the military, those representing the united states overseas, and of course our human intelligenc

including former defense sect mark esper this morning here on cnn.e said trump cannot be trusted with the nation's secrets. >> based on his actions, if proven true, no, it is just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, it places our nation's security at risk. >> so let's discuss all of this and more with toluse olorunnipa, and leigh ann caldwell from the post and alayna treene and amy walter. thanks for spending your father's day morning with us. let's talk about how these candidates are trying to deal with the trump indictment or not deal with it or try to ignore it. amy, what do you think is the strategy for how these candidates should deal with it? should they take it head on and step aside from it. w what is the effective way to do that. >> one person that knows what he wants to do is chris christie which is come right at it consistently. chris christie is also the least liked republican in the field among republicans. so, his strategy, while it may be effective at hurting donald trump, it is probably not going to be helpfu

but there's no evidence quite yet that republicans are ready to listen to bill barr and mark esper overstening to trump tonight on the fox news interview that we played a clip of, it's quite troubling. and he clearly doesn't have an answer for this. he's scrambling. i would be very concerned if i were part of his legal team that he was out commenting on this publicly now that he's under indictment. but it does underscore the fact that, for trump, the political argument is really what matters most today because i think they're betting they can push off a trial until after the election. and if they can get him elected president, then they can make it go away. so the campaign is the defense basically. >> yeah, the former president as defensive as ever and not showing any remorse. thank you to all of you for your expertise. >>> and, just ahead, the latest on a holiday weekend that has turned violent with shootings and communities all across the country. we hope you like your work. (♪ ♪) before... and bath fitter. before... and bath fitter. if you have a “fore” bath, now's the time to call b

bill barr, john bolton, mark esper. these are not litberals or moderates.onservative republicans. i think bill barr and john bolton are certainly more conservative than donald trump ever was in terms of policy and ideology what they saw when they were in the white house, what they're seeing in this indictment, which confirms what their observations were when they worked for president trump, is somebody who can't be trusted, someone who is not, in fact, in their view, fit for the oval office. when we wrote "the divider" last year, my wife and i, susan glasser, the worst and most damning testimony coming out for donald trump were from people who worked for him they were people who he picked to put in senior government roles. they were people who hoped to help him be a good president and came out feeling very disaffected and disturbed by what they saw. this indictment is being treated by a lot of republicans, even people who were allies of his, differently than the alvin bragg indictment and different than some of the allegations of the past because it involve

he said mark esper was weak, totally ineffective.nything i wanted. >> secretary, you've been so fantastic in so many ways. transportation, it's moving along. you've done a fantastic job for me and for the country. i appreciate all that you do. >> in his post on truth social, trump said, mcconnell, quote, has a death wish and must immediately seek help and advice from his china-loving wife. >> by the way -- >> i can't. >> -- we go through the other things. when he puts "death wish" in all caps, he's calling out to his supporters to kill mitch mcconnell. >> jonathan lemire and elise jordan are still with us. joining us, mara gaye of the editorial board for "the new york times." and msnbc political analyst and former senator claire mccaskill joins us. in the interview on fox news last night, host bret baier pressed donald trump about that long list of staffers who no longer support him and several more who trump himself has attacked and called names. >> we put people in that were great, and we put people in that weren't. i now know wash

yes, mark esper, in my opinion, spoke yesterday on one channel, the former us secretary of defense ando europe and he realized that if, uh, let's say ukrainian contraception is not going to be incorrectly effective, then financial support , military support, it will subside. that's what, in principle, it was rational to show him yesterday. yes, and here it’s just, if we return to the canoe, which now says that it’s all the same, well, it’s scary to imagine what will happen if we don’t help ukraine, so the byte drove this tunnel on itself. yes, because he tied his future political and election more precisely, the election company directly with the question. here is the success or not of zelensky's success, and therefore, it seems to me, this was perfectly understood in kiev. and she tries to play, well, quite simple, but it seems to me, well, to some extent, she can even work with schemes on the principle that this ukrainian tail begins to wag this american dog. and for some time to receive, here and military assistance and financial then and aircraft will go further there and well, the

. >> two former trump cabinet officials, bill barr and mark es esper, criticizing his handling of --> they took criticism for doing things that seemed like they were protecting him. so it's remarkable of the cry i'm you're getting from both. bill barr was criticized for the way he ran the justice department. listen to their comments over the weekend. >> do you think trump can be trusted with the nation's secrets ever again? >> well, based on his actions, again if proven true under the indictment by the special counsel, no. it's irresponsible action that places our service members at risk and our nation's security at risks. >> he will always put his own interests and gratifying his own ego above the country's interests, no question about it. >> you hear how stark that criticism is. again, these are people who worked very closely with the former president. >> especially bill barr. he's not backing him up on this at all. evan, thank you. jim? >>> some progress in the midst of serious tensions. the u.s. and china take steps, beijing still not budging on key issues. what secretary blinken

he said mark esper was weak, totally ineffective.ansportation, it's just moving along, and you have done a fantastic job for me, and for the country, and i appreciate all that you do. >> in his post on truth, trump said mcconnell quote, has a death wish, and must immediately seek health and advice from his china loving wife coco chao. >> by the way, we got through all these other things, but when he puts a death wish in all caps, he's calling out to his supporters to kill mitch mcconnell. >> so in the interview on fox news last night, host brett bare pressed donald trump about that long list of staffers who no longer support him. and several more who trump himself has attacked, and called names. >> we put people in that were great, and we put people in that weren't. i now know washington probably better than anybody. i know the good ones, and the bad ones, we will have really great, strong people. i already know who they are, but we will have really great strong people. >> okay, in 2016 you said that. i'm gonna surround myself with o

margins it will when you have people like bill barr, when you have the former secretary of defense mark esper this administration, all of them now saying in public or many of them now saying in public what they've been saying in private, you do create that collective moment where maybe others will have the courage to do what miles did and come out and speak in public. if anything is going to break donald trump's hold on the republican party it will be the trusted voices from within his own administration, from within the republican party that say this is awful, this man cannot be trusted, we can never put him back in the oval office again. >> kim, you get the last word. >> yeah, i agree with most of what was just said. i don't know given that donald trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016 that suddenly these revelations from these republicans are going to push away independents or republicans who may be wavering, i think that's such a tiny percent of the electorate. what did happen in 2020 is that others, democrats, young people, independents, people who had never voted before were s

trump secretary of defense mike jett mark esper said the former president handling of misinformation service members lives international security at risk. trump handpicked attorney general bill barr with whom i agree on very little hit the nail on the head when he described the former presents legal troubles as quote entirely of his own making. no right to these documents. the government tried for over a year quietly with respect to get them back he jerked them around. we face a subpoena he did not raise any legal arguments. he engaged in deceitful conduct is a clear crime those allegations are true". the former president could have it any time simply return the documents and avoidede prosecution. house republicans do not want to t that.ut any of they seem incapable of assigning any agency responsibility to donald trump problems that are trumps and trumpst alone. instead republicans have planned this hearing and constructed an entire post narrative around the work of special counsel jerome in an effort to distract the former president's legal troubles and mislead the american public.

well let's hear mark esper who was the secretary of defense in the past administration.ll continue. if not, then it may weaken, and other countries will follow suit. so this is very important and i think that ukraine understands this not only militarily, but also politically, so that their counter-offensive is successful, it shows people the return on their investment in ukrainian the army can be trusted with this statement that this funding will still depend on the results. you know, i think so, because if, uh, the ukrainians don't succeed, which i have absolutely no doubt, moreover, if we go on the counteroffensive and start, uh, liberating, so to speak. uh, new territories, then, of course, even in america, the administration is thinking, despite the fact that there is something completely. it's clear. and with a smile to all questions, even those not related to this topic , he answers that we are not leaving, we will continue to support ukraine i think congress. maybe, so to speak, to meet, uh , not to go, because too much money has been pumped in. uh, too uh, it’s e

don't just take my word for, it trump secretary of defense, mark esper, said that the former president's handling of this information but u.s. service men's lives and our national security risk. trump's handpicked attorney general, bill barr, with whom i agree and very little, hit the nail on the head when he describes the former presidents legal troubles as, quote, entirely of his own making. he had no right to these documents. the government tried for over a year, quietly, and with respect to get them back. he jerked them around. when he faced a subpoena, he didn't raise any legal arguments. he engaged in a course of deceitful conduct. that was a clear crime if those allegations are true, close quote. the former president could have, at anytime, for months, simply returned the documents and avoid prosecution. house republicans do not want to talk about any of that. they seem incapable of assigning any agency or responsibility to donald trump for problems that are trumps and trump's alone. instead, republicans have planned this hearing and constructed an entire false narrative around th

that kind of treatment, i've joined a great list of americans like rex tillotson and jim mattis, mark espercountry smaller and it makes us lesser. during the revolutionary war, abigail adams asked her husband john if they were going to win the war. john said was i can't guarantee success in the war but i can guarantee something better, that we deserve it. ladies and gentlemen, you never know what will come across the desk of the president, it's not a litmus test of boxes checked. you need to know what is in here. we need to once again as people of faith put character first. if i am president of the united states i will put character first. i love each and every one of you for what you contribute to the country, that you are people of faith. i am too. let's make america a country that cares once again about character and faith. thank you all very much. ♪♪ >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back chairman of the iowa faith and freedom coalition. ♪♪ >> good morning again. i am proud and honored to introduce senator joni ernst who was elected to the u.s. senate replacing a 30 year far left

don't just take my word for, it trump secretary of defense, mark esper, said that the former president's handling of this information but u.s. service men's lives and our national security risk. trump's handpicked attorney general, bill barr, with whom i agree and very little, hit the nail on the head when he describes the former presidents legal troubles as, quote, entirely of his own making. he had no right to these documents. the government tried for over a year, quietly, and with respect to get them back. he jerked them around. when he faced a subpoena, he didn't raise any legal arguments. he engaged in a course of deceitful conduct. that was a clear crime if those allegations are true, close quote. the former president could have, at anytime, for months, simply returned the documents and avoid prosecution. house republicans do not want to talk about any of that. they seem incapable of assigning any agency or responsibility to donald trump for problems that are trumps and trump's alone. instead, republicans have planned this hearing and constructed an entire false narrative around th

actions of a very few people that we're not in a much worse situation, people like mark milley and secretary of defense esperhan we're in. and if he's re-elected, there is no end of sycophants to make sure that those people are not in place to act out of principle. it will be quite a dire situation. just to relate it to your interview with sue gordon, one thing i think you're seeing with the to intelligence community is one of the reasons i think you see some forward leaning on the tons of documents that were approved for use in this prosecution is because the intelligence community understands the risk that he poses not to them but to the nation. the last time i saw this was in connection with the two rupgs indictments brought by a different team, part of the mueller investigation, where the intelligence community again was forward leaning because they understood how much this -- that he put us at risk, and they needed to weigh that differently than they might traditionally do, and then a normal criminal case. >> you know, mary, what's interesting to me about covering the trump story is how little of it has