consider that considering the conversation we had with mark esper.steve kornacki. steve, explain the numbers. >> katy, really interesting. donald trump with this massive lead over ron desantis and nobody else in double digits. this sort of the backdrop for the next republican debate which also looks like donald trump won't be participating in. trump's republican critics, his republican opponents they thought, they hoped, many said by skipping that first presidential debate trump would alienate some republican voters and he would be giving an opportunity to his opponents to move up in the polls, but trump didn't lose any ground. in the summer he was barely at 50%. now he's at 60%. ron desantis' his support earlier was over 30%, it's been cut in half to 16%. everybody else in single digits. if this is the direction republicans are going, if they nominate donald trump for the rematch, this is what our poll shows. trump and biden tied in a potential rematch for 2024. one piece of context that's interesting on this. we polled -- i found 11 nbc polls from

secretary mark esper will join me in moments.the trump campaign, forcing the former president bought a gun, then correcting themselves after an uproar of course member trump is under four felony indictments. can you can legally purchase a firearm? that's next. >> general mark milley tonight facing an onslaught of violent rhetoric just days before he is set to retire as the nation's top military officer. on friday, former president donald trump basically accused the party in joint chief chairman of treason. quote an act so egregious that in times gone by, punishment would have been death. republican congressman paul gosar than suggested in a newsletter rant on sunday night that merely be hanged along with other disgusting remarks that do not bear repeating and therefore will not be repeated here tonight. both trump and the congressman while piling on milley to his response to the january 6th attack including phone calls milley had made to allies into government officials in china. reassuring them of that time that the u.s. was sti

. >> joining me tonight, former defense secretary under former president donald trump, mark esper, who of course worked alongside general milley in the administration and wrote about his experience in "a sacred oath," his book. secretary esper, how dangerous do you believe this post from donald trump is? >> look, it's very dangerous, kaitlan. it's wrong. it's disgusting. it's despicable. and it's not just an assault on one person, mark milley, who has served his country nobly, and who now has to fear somebody may act on such remarks. but it's also attack on institution of the military professionalism and their sworn oath to defend the constitution of the united states. i see this on multiple levels and either way you look at it, it's despicable. >> one thing that, kind of, stands out when trump says something like this that is obviously so egregious and you typically never hear a president, a former president, attacking the person he put in as the joint chiefs chairman, is kind of how muted their response to it. certainly from republican leaders on capitol hill, do you believe it's imp

you heard poppy talking with mark esper about this guy, tommy tubervillle.e talked about heading into the summer recess. it's still there. what does that mean? it means there is no confirmed army chief of staff. chief of naval operations. general mark milley, he's still technically in his position. that will end soon. his nominee has moved through the senate committee process, waiting for confirmation. right now that hold still stands. will it clear? it's an open question along with, i don't know, just about everything else over the course of the next month. poppy? >> we have new exclusive cnn reporting that shows the widening scope of the federal investigation into attempts to overturn the 2020 election. former president trump was charged a month ago with four criminal counts for orchestrating a broad conspiracy to hold on to power. special counsel jack smith still digging according to new reporting from multiple sources familiar with the investigation. it also raises the possibility that others could still face legal peril. jack smith is following the mone

mark esper, the former u.s. defense secretary, kind enough to join us.tary, he does raise a good point there, the hypocrisy in terms of who we allow and don't allow into that body. but on this deal, you're worried about what it could spark, that it might solve one hostage set of swaps but encourage, right? >> well, good morning, neil, first of all. but, look, you're right. it is a, it is not just a swap, it is a ransom payment. if you look up the definition of a ransom payment, it's demand for compensation or payment in exchange for release of a person. so that is exactly what this is. and you've got to get out of the mess, if you want, of trying to discuss the definition of what this is. but any reasonable person would conclude that tehran is going to learn from this lesson that there's incentive to taking more americans wrongfully and using that to get payments, to get relief from sanctions, to get people who were legally charged here in the united states returned to iran. so in a sense, all the a wrong hinges and that's why it's the bad -- things and

i think we should be concerned. >> secretary, mark esper.military promotions. yes, the senate got around that and put in a few positions in the last week or so that the vast majority of these posts have gone unfilled because of his hold. tell us about the impacts, as you know, it has on the military and frankly what you think should be done about this? >> as you know i joined the other predecessors and we wrote a letter saying that this should be stopped. it's unwarranted and unprecedented in many ways in overtime would affect our readiness. turberville has a legitimate policy concern and that's fine, but don't drag the military into it. it politicizes them in the institution. this should be taken up with civilian appointees. on the other hand i have called publicly for senator schumer to move the nominees because i think there was some politics being played on that side as well. i'm glad to see that he has done that and we are moving people through but we have to resolve the bigger issue. >> i agree and we talked about it on the air. schume

i want to begin with comments from president trump's former secretary of defense mark esper. he had this to say in response to this very bill's cut of the state and foreign operations allocation. i quote, when we don't leave we create a vacuum that will be filled by china. he continued, america's leadership means more than military capability. diplomacy and foreign assistance are part of it, too. his proposed -- this proposed budget would upend that relationship by gutting our civilian tool kit and depriving america of the diplomatic leadership whose benefits i have seen last a lifetime. end his quote. also, the global health council together with 70 other organizations, catholic relief service, united states global leadership coalition, the american jewish committee, interaction, the one campaign, the christian connection for international health, and care u.s.a. have expressed serious national security concerns with the house republicans' funding plan. mr. chair, i plan to submit a compilation of these concerns for the record. we are told that this 2024 state and foreign op

mark esper said millie's concerns are a legitimate fear and he would throw his political emies in jail if elected again. underscoring the danger of re-electing a mob boss, a georgia judge has ordered the name of jurors in the case against trump be kept secret until the trial ends. all very serious. about the danger he poses to democracy and to individual americans. and that someone who saw it firsthand. the january 6th committee's star witness, former white house aide, cassidy hutchison in her first live interview with rachel maddow. >> this year has helped me open my eyes to the dangers that trump imposes on people. i'm not the only one. i wish i could say i'd be the last person but unfortunately i won't. that's what he does to people that he thinks speak out against, or that detract from him. it's one of the more dangerous things about donald trump, too. we've seen time and time again. it shouldn't have to be like this. >> hush is son said she belongs to a different party than the current gang led by trump and called for more republicans to join her in speaking out ahead of the next

he added that the man he picked to be defense secretary, mark esper, called him a, quote, woke fool. obviously this is after what you referenced there. trump implied that general milley should be executed for treason. are those comments beyond the pale in your view? >> as i said, his earlier comments regarding general milley were inexcusable. and really have no place in the public debate. but i think it's one of the reasons why, despite what some of the national polls may show, i think republican primary voters know that we need new leadership, not just in the white house, but in the republican party. and that's why i'll be back in iowa first thing in the morning, and we're going to continue to take our case of a commitment of that broad-based conservative agenda that's defined our movement for years. but also, you know, i was inspire bid ronald reagan to become a republican and it was his conservative agenda. it was his optimism, and it was his civility, i think, that made it possible for him to lead an administration that revived the country. >> you talk about civility -- >> change

the activities of the men dispatched by trump to lead the pentagon including defense secretary mark esper, who was fired, a man who milley and others were suspected interested in using the military to advance trump's efforts to remain present. and jeffrey goldberg, author of that profile and editor-in-chief of the atlantic joins me now. jeffrey, i think the first word on everybody's mind was, wow. we lived in that moment, we saw what happened on january 6th. we had a little bit of inclination, but i think this profile gives us the most in-depth, accurate description of what mark milley did, and i want to read a part of what you wrote. you said in the period before and after the 2020 election, milley did as much or more than any other american to defend the constitutional order to prevent the military from being deployed against the american people and force all the interruption of wars. i guess everyone's question this morning is what happens if this guy comes back? what happens if donald trump is re-elected sfd. >> yeah, that's the question there's no good answer to because the feeling i

. >>> now this, former trump defense secretary mark esper issuing a stern warning if trump gets reelectedhinks concerns about former president trump seeking retaliation on officials such as outgoing chairman of the joint chiefs, general mark milley, are legitimate. >> if you recall if my memoir that you mentioned at the top, i cite a circumstance where the president, egged on by his close advisers, when the call -- want to call back to active duty general mcchrystal for things they allegedly said in the public domain. milley and i had to talk the president out of doing that. >> reporter: trump making comments last week accusing milley of a treasonous act to give them a heads occupy on the thinking of the president of the united states, end quote. the former president's remarks seem to -- reassurances at the end of rump's term. interesting comments there. david: remember, trump did not go after hillary even though a lot of people said he would. todd, thank you very much. let's check futures, and they are in the green right now. the cow is up 12 -- the dow is up 122, nasdaq up about 5 a 5.

he said it to mark esper, and you know, these officials, senior officials in the government are like,merican citizens in the leg legs when we can avoid that, and we don't want to use the insurrection act because all of them are not burning down. and so it was a constant tug of war between -- and this is the strange part historically, it was a tug of war between the military leadership that wanted the civilian leadership, the military reports to the civilians, they wanted the civilian leadership to calm down and honor the constitution >> the possibility that a president would try to foment or provoke a coup to remain in office in the american citizen, it's the voters, courts and congress that are going to serve as checks on a president's behavior, not the general's, so, milley, in fact, after january 6th with other members of the national security team got together and informally agreed that they would prevent any reckless national security agreements, even though the commander in chief is supposed to have unilateral ability to do that. >> to be fair, what they said, you know, they nev

on th activities of the me dispatched by trump to lead th pentagon, including defens secretary mark esper interested in using the military to advanc trump's efforts to remai president. jeffrey goldberg, author o that profile, and editor i chief of the atlantic, joins m now. jeffrey, i think the first wor everybody was thinking was wow. everybody live in that moment, we saw we saw what happened on january 6th. we had a little bit of inclination, i think thi profile gives us the mos in-depth accurate descriptio of what mark milley did. i want to read pt of wha you wrote. you said, in the chaotic perio before and after the 202 election, milley d as much as, or more than, any othe american to defend the constitutional order, to prevent the military for being deployed against the america people into force stole the eruptio of americas wars with nuclea armed adversaries. along the way, really deflecte trump's exhaustion's to have u.s. military ignore, and even indication, commit war crimes. i guess everyone's questio this morning is, what happen of this guy comes back what happens if donald tru

trump's secretary defense, mark esper, said that the former president's handling of this information risk u.s. service lives and put our national security at risk. trump handpicked attorney general, bill barr, with whom i agree very little, hit the nail on the head when he described the former presidents legal troubles as quote, entirely of his own making. he had no right to those documents. the government tried for over a year quietly, with respect to get them back. and he jerked them around. when he faced a subpoena, he didn't raise any legal arguments, he engaged in the course of deceitful conduct. there was a clear crime. the former president could have, at any time, for months, simply return the documents, and avoid prosecution. the house republicans did not want to talk about any of that. they seem incapable of assigning any agency or responsibility to donald trump for problems that are trumps, and trump alone. you may hear today about a man named stephen dantuono, former agent responsible for the washington field office. last month, committee republicans brought him in for an

for any moves made by trump and his coup-plotting allies, quote, shortly after defense secretary mark esper was fired, milley told both cash patel and ezra cohen watnick, another trump loyalistsect to the pentagon, that he would make sure they would see the world from behind bars if they did anything illegal to prevent joe biden for taking the oath of office on january 20th both men have denied being warned in this manner. in the plot to overturn the 2020 election erupted into violence on january 6th, milley played a critical role in the response. in his testimony to the january 6th select committee he underscored trump's dereliction of duties. watch. >> yeah. you're the commander in chief. you got an assault going on the capitol of the united states of america. ing there nothing -- no call, nothing, zero. >> zero. and in the tense period after the insurrection as concerns about the country's stability spiked here at home and abroad, milley, according to this reporting in "the atlantic," quote, gathered the pentagon's top nuclear officers for an emergency meeting. according to meeting parti

let me begin with some comments that were made by president trump's former secretary of defense mark esper. he had this to say in response to this bill's proposed cut of the state and foreign operations allocation by nearly one third. and i quote. when we don't lead, we create a vacuum that will be filled instead by china. he continues, america's leadership means more than just military capability, diplomacy and foreign assistance are part of this too. this proposed budget would upend that relationship by gutting our civilian tool kit and depriving america of the diplomatic leadership whose benefits i have seen last a lifetime. end quote. i have further, quote, from admiral james staridis from the united states global leadership coalition, the american jewish committee, christian connections for international health, care, and president of the one campaign of -- of all who come out in opposition to this bill. so i would like to submit this compilation of letters along with my written testimony. mr. cole: without objection. ms. delauro: thank you. we will be told that, and we are told, that

joining us now, former secretary of defense under the trump administration, mark esper.t do you make of the wall street journal's warning, and we get that ten more to that, because a lot of people say actually you are supposed to take what donald trump says seriously. he has proved time and time again that he means what he says. >> look, i think he should take a certain statements seriously, not just because he will act on them, but he draws people around him who are trying to act on them themselves. that was my experience of course running the pentagon during his tenure. and look, these remarks about general mark milley are reprehensible, they're horrible. and then that one american would say it against another american, let alone a former president. a former chief executive. saying to the chairman, a joint chief of staff, a man who served this country honorably for 40 plus years. it's just reprehensible. >> you know mister secretary, it was -- i heard you talking about this supposed, what donald trump and supporters say was a supposed crime committed by general milley,

don't just take my word for, it trump secretary of defense, mark esper, said that the former president's handling of this information but u.s. service men's lives and our national security risk. trump's handpicked attorney general, bill barr, with whom i agree and very little, hit the nail on the head when he describes the former presidents legal troubles as, quote, entirely of his own making. he had no right to these documents. the government tried for over a year, quietly, and with respect to get them back. he jerked them around. when he faced a subpoena, he didn't raise any legal arguments. he engaged in a course of deceitful conduct. that was a clear crime if those allegations are true, close quote. the former president could have, at anytime, for months, simply returned the documents and avoid prosecution. house republicans do not want to talk about any of that. they seem incapable of assigning any agency or responsibility to donald trump for problems that are trumps and trump's alone. instead, republicans have planned this hearing and constructed an entire false narrative around th

. >> to your point about mark milley, donald trump's former defense secretary, mark esper, now defendingiefs of staff general mark milley after former president trump suggested milley is a traitor who, in the good old days, he said, would have been put to death. he attacked the general on social media of going behind his back by making phone calls to chinese counterparts in the final months of trump's administration. trump was reacting to a profile in "the atlantic" where milley revealed he felt the need to protect the constitution from donald trump, to talk to other countries and assure them the nuclear arsenal was secure. here's what former defense secretary esper said yesterday. >> first of all, that statement by the president is horrible. it's intolerable. it should be condemned by everybody, right, left, republican, democrat, right? mark milley served his country well, did it professionally, and we owe him a great deal of gratitude. i do, as well. and so part of this is a lot of misinformation. i think in some case, inaccuracies or incomplete stories that came out of some of the boo

he and mark esper, secretary of defense at the time, were convinced they were duped into walking intozation of the military the way trump wanted to use the military so much of what milley wound up doing five, six, seven months after that situation at lafayette square, that was because he was on heightened alert against the manipulation that trump was trying to do with the military so trump planted the seeds of that forceful response from milley to all of the shenanigans around the election, he planted that june 1st when he tried to get milley to look as though he was on the side of those who wanted to, quote, shoot the demonstrators in the leg it was a pivot that milley made. >> your piece filled with extensive reporting, much time spent with talking with the general, general milley, and it includes a period of time when john kelly, then the president's chief of staff, jim mattis, then the president's secretary of defense, had an agreement. one would not leave washington without the other being in washington. >> yeah. >> because of the level of danger they perceived this donald j. tru

i want to begin with comments from president trump's former secretary of defense mark esper. he had this to say in response to this very bill's cut of the state and foreign operations allocation. and i quote, when we don't leave we create a vacuum that will be filled by china. he continued, america's leadership means more than military capability. diplomacy and foreign assistance are part of it, too. his proposed -- this proposed budget would upend that relationship by gutting our civilian tool kit and depriving america of the diplomatic leadership whose benefits i have seen last a lifetime. end his quote. also, the global health council together with 70 other organizations, catholic relief service, united states global leadership coalition, the american jewish committee, interaction, the one campaign, the christian connection for international health, and care u.s.a. have expressed serious national security concerns with the house republicans' funding plan. mr. chair, i plan to submit a compilation of these concerns for the record. we are told that this 2024 state and foreig