and they have not categorized mark fogle's came in the same way. we don't know why for sure. they haven't explained it. when you ask them, they say we can't discuss individual cases because under the process, he is not officially, wrongfully detained as i understand it. they don't tend to discuss why they don't declare somebody that. but his case looks awfully familiar. it looks awfully similar to hers. maybe he did do something wrong, in the russian context, in the legal context, but it seems so out of proportion at least in what the american legal system would consider for a small amount and the president of the united states just this wall called on americans who were being locked up for ms. misdemeanors, small marijuana possession charges, in effect what mark fogle is being held under, on a pretty miserable russian prison for years is the equivalent it seems like. >> just to be clear, there is a lot of joy across the country for brittney griner coming home. everyone believes that she was unfairly targeted. and that what they were doing to her was politically motivated and

mark fogle an american teacher also caught with medical marijuana. like griner the u.s.t? our next guest wrote an op-ed asking if fogle was simply not woke enough for the president to step. in congressman guy rashida tlaib then stuller joins us now. not many people are talking about fobleg what happened with him he had a very small amount of medical marijuana, which is legal in the state of pennsylvania. we're talking a few ounces of this. and he was detained he was convicted of drug smuggling and drug trafficking. i have made the argument that he should be declared that's the many status of someone he would overseas and makes them eligible for a prisoner swap. brittney griner was put on wrongfully detained status within weeks. fobleg, who has been in custody longer than griner was, he was detained in august of 2021 still 2021 isnot on wrongfully detaind status. >> brian: what makes you think he is woke or not woke. >> is he a teacher from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. the d.c. elite view that as flyover country. i don't know mark fobleg's political association this administ

. >> you have reported on another american mark fogle in detention. for the children of diplomats and for really the global elite who lived in moscow. very tralkic situation where he was returning to moscow for a tenth and final year of teaching at that school a city he really, really loved. he was caught at the airport with about half an ounce of medical marijuana that he was using for chronic pain. he was eventually sentenced to 14 years in russian prison, which is just a staggering number when you think about it. >> and what's his situation? what's his situation today? >> dire, i would say because they had hoped, his family had hoped and several pretty high profile and former ambassadors, including the babs to russia have been trying to the get him included in a prisoner swap. but from all indications, they haven't been able to get any traction on that. i will say that i spoke with jayne fogle yesterday after the brittney griner news. jean and she assured me that the state department has been in contact. they have told her that her husband is on the

one of them is mark fogle.ke to his attorney. >> we're frustrated with the system. >> he's been detained since august of last year after medical cannabis was found in his luggage at a moscow airport. >> are there negotiations taking place, and if so, can you tell us about them? >> we don't know what's going on. obviously that's all done behind closed doors for reasons of confidentiality. the u.s. government has assured us that it is doing what it can. >> mark fogle has not been declared wrongfully detained by the u.s. government. paul whelan has. whelan, the best known american detainee, has been held in russia for almost four years, serving a 16 year sentence for es espionage acknowledge, charges the government says are bogus. >> in these conditions, who knows how i'll come back or if i'll come back. what i don't understand is why nothing has happened to this point. >> reporter: the biden administration consistently says it's doing everything it can to bring whelan and the other americans home. several america

two other americans, paul whelan, and mark fogle remain.t's an incentive for other despots to essentially grab an american, use them as a bargaining chip, so it's hard. and i'm so impressed with the whelan and fogle families for their gratitude one american is free. but we need to continue working and i know the biden administration is to release others. in terms of putin he gets the arms dealer back. he also knows he can royal the american body politic by picking one to send back to the united states and leaving others in custody in russia. he knows just what that will stir in the united states of america. so this is calculated on his part. but, look, for russian citizens watching this i don't think they're particularly thrilled to get an arms dealer back, and what they're most concerned right now is they're being used as canon fodder for ukraine. so this is an effort to just roil america. >> vladimir putin did say more swaps are possible, which of course raises hope for paul whelan, but as you just said you believe this trade does incenti

this as paul whelan is still in a russian prison after nearly 4 years as is american teacher mark fogleh hasnie is lye on the north lawn. >> reporter: hey there, alicia. the white house still defending its decision here saying that hay did try, they made the efforts to try to get paul out, but really they said there was no avenue to get him out of russia and here back home. they say that russia was never open to handing him over in prisoner swap because of the espionage charges against him. the 52-year-old veteran is serving a sentence until 2036. paul's brother david, who supports griner's release, was on fox this morning, and he is pushing for more afelts to get -- attempts to get his brother home. >> he's, i think, pretty shattered. he was getting his hopes up, i think we all had our hopes up that he'd be going home. he's lost his apartment in the states in the last four years, and he was thinking about that future and i think not being able to think about it as concrete hi is going to be hard. >> reporter: democrats say presidents from both parties have had to authorize tough trades

mark fogle 60 years old, he is serving a 14-year sentence, different situations.get home as well. here is congressman mike waltz on all of. this dictatorships never works in the interest of the united states. and the whole reason that regimes like russia, north korea, iran, the taliban, and others participate in hostage diplomacy is in the end we always cave. >> ben, your thoughts? >> brittney griner is only being the other end of this trade for reasons that i think we all must acknowledge. she was a cause celeb among athletes and those on twit his or her seem to guide so much of the activity of this biden white house because of her race, her sexual orientation, her role within the wnba, et cetera. and that was something that made her case more prominent. i'm not unhappy that she is coming back home, but i am unhappy at the terms of this deal. once again, joe biden has shown himself to be a terrible negotiator, something that has marked his entire career both when he was a vice president and when he was in the senate and working on foreign relations. this is a one

nwba star released thursday in exchange for notorious russian star viktor bout and paul whelan and mark foglehas more. >> administration officials steam believe they've had a great week on the other hand republicans continue to criticize this administration for what they call a bad deal. a dangerous deal for americans. so republicans are saying that the biden white house has given up one of the most dangerous men in the world. nicknamed merchant of death and they're worried that this trade sengdz sends the wrong signal to our adversaries. a pattern where we're willing to accept the bad deal and sending a signal that it is a good idea if you're a rogue regime to get leverage over america to take americans hostage. now administration says that they conducted a national security assessment of bout and stand by decision to release him to russia and also say russia was never willing to negotiate a swap with paul because of the espionage charges against him. in all of this back and forth, of course, no one is more disappointed than paul whelan himself and phone call to cnn he said this, i'm grately

. >> but, ambassador, what happens if you don't -- if you're not a wnba star, if you're mark fogle, a teacher, after being sentenced to 14 years bringing cannabis cartridges in the country. what happens if you don't have access to 24/7 coverage, if you don't have the wnba behind you and your agents, et cetera? are you out of luck? >> we represent the families. go public. don't hide things. put a little pressure on the government. get your name out. go on shows. our government will say the opposite. they will say, no, no, don't rattle things. i don't work for our government. you have to work very closely. yes, there's cases very high profile like brittany that get the attention. but at the same time we are able to get and release others that are not so high profile. it has happened. and it's going to continue to happen. i've been doing this for 20 years. and you do have some successes. it's just been a different modality. but paul whelan deserves to come home. he's a veteran, military guy, wrongfully detained. four years. his family has been very diplomatic and gracious. so that has to

i don't want people to forget mark fogle who is wrongfully detained for the same alleged crime as brittney griner. mark was a teacher for us at the angelo american school. he taught our diplomats. he a patriot wrongfully detained. he should not be forgotten as well. >> we are not forgetting him as well. you are absolutely right. admiral, what concerns do you have about viktor bout being a free man? >> i have quite a few concerns, to be honest with you. i recall vividly talking with a good friend, mike braun, head of operations for the dea, on the day they caught him. boy, let me tell you, this is a dangerous man. by all accounts, he has maintained a lot of connective tissue. i would not be surprised if we see him conducting operations, being part of the espionage services as ambassador mcfaul said. not a good day to see that guy go free. on the other hand, you balance it with the real joy you heard in the voice of brittney griner's wife. you balance it with the extremely classy response from the whelan family saying they are joyful that brittney griner got out. now they want to see the sam

leave paul whelan behind, very little has been reported about another american in a russian jail, mark fogleren of diplomats in moscow and was arrested a year ago and sentenced for 14 years. joining me now is his sister and former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul who is a friend. he taught your children. i know you know him well. first of all, we have been speaking and talking to mike for months about your brother. tell me about your reaction to brittney griner's release. >> of course, i'm delighted that she got home. of course, i wish that mark had been on the plane, too, as well. it seemed like he should have been on the plane for who they got in exchange. >> have you heard anything from the biden administration, you or his wife, other family members? >> no. we did talk to jake sullivan in october as well as wendy sherman. >> what did they tell you about why -- why your brother has not been considered wrongfully detained. i don't understand that. i've been trying to get answers. >> we don't understand it either. they have not given a lot of satisfying answers. there's a quota on h

of course, we would rush for all americans, paul whelan, mark fogle to be part of this deal.r criminal, but that wasn't a deal on the table. i think those are very hall hard call but they made the right decision. >> the timing of this is lost on no one, you least of all, griner was arrested weeks before russia invaded ukraine and i wonder how that then complicated all of this? >> it's a great question, i don't know the answer to that, i know -- i sense, i should be careful here, i haven't talked to vladimir putin about this but i sense that when they picked her up, they knew they had an asset and that is the way they think about these things that might be trade-able for viktor bout. the other trades that were made they didn't think that they could have viktor bout, and i think it is important for people to understand that they have been focused on getting bout out for nearly a decade and because of her high profile, because we live in a democracy so there was lobbying an effort to try to get her out, they knew that they might have had somebody that they could trade for viktor

it's tragic, by the way, mark fogle, somebody i know personally, is also sitting in jail unjustly in russia. he was a teacher at our high school when i was the ambassador. he taught my kids. he taught the kids of diplomats and soldiers in moscow. he's in jail too. that is tragic. but we can have those same two thoughts at the same time, right? we should celebrate this win and also encourage the administration to get these other americans out of jail. >> and so, ambassador, what does that look like from here? the president of the united states said yesterday, admiral kirby said to us this morning, of course we're still working on paul whelan's case, of course we're working to get these other people out of prison, but they gave up maybe the biggest chip they have to the russians in viktor bout. is there still a chance that paul whelan gets out? is there something this president can give to vladimir putin to make that deal? >> well, first, i want to remind everybody that diplomacy is really hard generally speaking to get deals done. it's especially hard with the russians and vladimir pu

we have an american back on american soil, and lament the fact that we didn't get paul whelan or mark fogleegotiated with the russians, i know what it's like. they are tough negotiators and you get to the end on some issue, and then you have to decide i'm i going to take the deal that is being offered, or am i going to walk away? sometimes you need to walk away, by the way. sometimes we have as a government. democrats and republicans. this time they chose to take the deal. i think was the right decision. and all americans should celebrate that american today is free. >> paul whelan's own brother, david, responded to donald trump's post in which paul says, former president trump appears to have mentioned my brother paul whelan's wrongful detentions more in the last 24 hours than he did in the last two years of his presidency in which paul was held hostage by russia, and in parenthesis he says, zero. i don't he's suggest that more than he did then, also in parenthesis zero. the way than families and even into this. but what the former president to say, donald trump, it's just not helpful in t

mark fogle. i know him personally.was a teacher at the high school that my kids went to when i was a u.s. ambassador. he was wrongly -- and i think, arrested for similar charges like brittney griner. i hope that he also will get consideration if indeed there is a way to begin a process of negotiations to get these americans back. >> secretary of state antony blinken did say paul whelan and all other americans who we believe are wrongly detained. there is a list. monica was talking about john kirby saying we're going to stay vigilant of viktor bout. he's known as the merchant of death. how much more dangerous is our world with viktor bout back in it and no longer behind bars? >> he's a real criminal. he's a -- he was arrested when i worked at the white house. it was a fantastic operation that we got him in jail. and he did really horrible things all over the world. that said, the idea that he's going to go back now and do those things again, i think we need to wait and see. tragically, there's a lot of really other real

mark global, don't forget mark fogle, another american sitting in jail in russia for the same alleged crime that brittney griner, mark is a high school teacher that used to teach my son was i was the ambassador. there is a deeply intimately involved with our diplomatic community. but, you know, three innocent americans for one criminal would have been a good deal. but you get to the end of negotiations with the russians, i have been there many, many times. then you have to decide, do i take the deal in hand? or do i walk away? sometimes, we have to walk away. this was not the right time to walk away. i think they made the right decision to kick this deal now. >> you make this three for one wish, you wish it would've happened. why do you think vladimir putin was so intent on getting viktor bout back to russia. moscow is running out of weapons, for example, for the war on ukraine. what comes to mind? could he help putin pure killer weapons that he needs? can he do things that putin can't? can he become the threats of the u.s. again on other fronts? >> you know, maybe, but i doubt it. re

has millions of people who care about her, and to work for people like paul whelan, and i hope mark fogley grateful she's doing it. >> and what can we deduce about griner from the exchange? >> i do believe there's a certain extent in enhancing these own vulnerabilities to these kidnappings by having them dealt with at the highest level. i've been in and out of places like columbia where kidnapping is a major industry. and in putin's case, it's a political act. he's carrying out. but to echo ambassador mcfaul, it's obviously a good news that bill richardson and the state department were able to get griner out. others will remain hostage. but we shouldn't tee this up as driving u.s. policy. now, having said that -- >> because it endangers americans -- >> it just makes us all more vulnerable. if you go to columbia or ecuador or peru, people buy ransom insurance before they go down there. so we want to try to keep this out of the public discussion. ambassador mcfaul knows all about this. i think the other thing you have to realize is that putin is so desperate on the war in ukraine, that his

of mark vogel, pennsylvania teacher currently serving a 14 year sentence in a russian penal colony for similar charges of bringing medical marijuana into the country. unlike griner, whelan, the -- fogleined. ben rhodes served as a deputy national security adviser under president barack obama and he joins me now. ben, i'm curious your perspective. i know that while you were in the white house you were involved some negotiations that happened, i believe in cuba. how this looks from inside the white house? this is the kind of thing that really only presidents can do. it is incredibly dicey and difficult and fraught. how does this work inside of the white house. trying to get to wrongfully imprisoned americans back home? >> yeah, it is incredibly difficult. and usually it has to be done from the white house, because that is really have the authority to execute a swath. it is also usually a lot of secrecy around the diplomacy and negotiations. but also, because anytime you have a swab like this, no side gets anything they want. so i'm sure the u.s. coming into this desperately wanted to get bring griner home, as well as paul wieland. probably did not want to start with viktor bout. there'