c-span: you called mark shields and john mclaughlin, the two radio -- i mean, the television talk show hosts, loudmouths on television. >> guest: well, i did at one time. you know, if you watch john, john doesn`t give much credence to any other person`s opinion, and shields is just in your face all the time. so if you have those interviews, you don`t get much time to express. you maybe get banged on, but you never really get to express your opinion or your opinion is never really taken into focus. c-span: you give us an insider`s view of what happened around newt gingrich and the attempted coup. start that story. >> guest: well, i was whipping. i was chief deputy whip. we had an appropriations bill on the house floor, and i couldn`t find tom, tom delay, anywhere, because we had a problem. we had the coal folks that wanted to keep coal gasification funds in place, and we -- there was an amendment out there for -- to do away with the fire roads into the national forests environmentalists tried to do that. the people who were -- montana and the western folks that needed to keep their fore