and there's some back and forth with the lawyer who's there with mark sandy, this omb official. but eventually sandy comes back to the point and says this. he says, quote, the individual who resigned from the legal office at omb did note a disagreement on this topic. question, and this topic being the hold on ukraine security assistance? answer, correct. question, okay, just to be clear, what was the disagreement with? was the disagreement with the fact that omb was implementing the hold? was the disagreement with how the general counsel's office was handling it? what was the disagreement? answer, i think the best way to characterize it would be a dissenting opinion vis-a-vis the impoundment control act provisions. meaning a dissenting opinion over whether what the president had ordered here was illegal or not. and impoundment control act is not something that, you know, rolls trippingly off the tongue, it's not something we talk about here. but it's a basic idea. congress appropriated these military funds for ukraine. that meant the white house was legally obligated to disburse

but this testimony by mark sandy goes a long way in doing that. >> stand by.n the breaking news coming up. also kim jong-un is staging a show of force near the contentious border with south korea. is the north korean dictator sending a message to president trump? wayfair's biggest black friday blowout ever is now on. yes! score unbelievable savings. like living room up to 70% off. storage solutions from $9.99. and area rugs up to 80% off. plus, tons of limited-time mystery flash deals. and free shipping on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday. and we're just getting warmed up. our black friday blowout is happening now through december first. shop the event of the season, only at wayfair.com. >>> tonight, experts say kim jong-un could be sending a rather ominous message to president trump with a new round of military drills. brian todd is on the story. what are you learning? >> by every indication, he's dproeing more frustrated by the day over the stalled nuclear weapons talks and frustration on the r part of the dictator often transl

and if not, what are the expectations from mark sandy? >> reporter: well, sandy just got under way about 10:00 this morning. he's expected to go late into the afternoon. we have not heard a word out of him. and in fact, we were told by his attorney that he did not prepare an opening statement. so, it may be a little while before we get into the meat of what sandy is able to tell investigators, but we know why they want him here. you know, it's washington scandal 101 to try to follow the money. and sandy is the first witness who could potentially let democrats do that. he is a top official at the office of management and budget. it would be across his desk that the paperwork would have to move to get that military aid to ukraine or to hold it up, and he represents the first person from that office who has agreed to come testify. he's here pursuant to a subpoena. several other officials from omb have refused to come and talk. so, he's an important missing piece for democrats as they've tried to circle this entire impeachment inquiry. he, you

but mark sandy is a career official at the omb.the agency that handles disbursing this nearly $400 million in military aid that was supposed to go to ukraine. we know that was delayed until september 11th even though republicans and democrats on capitol hill had agreed o release that money. what democrats want to hear? they want to understand how this process was supposed to work and what might have gone off the rails, what was happening behind the scenes, and why was this money so delayed? remember, republicans and democrats, everyone was asking questions on capitol hill because no one could figure out this

mark sandy i am not going to characterize his testimony except to say that he is the first witness from the office of management and budget to come forward. we have asked other individuals like the acting director mick mulvaney as well as others around the white house. we have seen issues that are pertinent to this testimony today who have refused to come in. it is with gratitude that we want to thank him for coming in today and providing useful testimony. always, when witnesses come and we learn more and today we learned more because he honored his duty to cooperate in our investigation. >> [indiscernible] mr. sandy's testimony relates that the administration placed on security assistance to ukraine. i will not go into what he testified to. this investigation is most importantly about $391 million in taxpayer money that was leveraged to ask the ukraine's to look into the president's political opponent. this was authorized by congress, signed into law by the president by wheny day that went that money was not given to the ukrainians, the ukrainians were dying. by when [indiscernible] >>

this is mark sandy. he is a senior official at the office of management and budget, the agency that controls the flow of u.s. dollars. he's there now under subpoena, meaning he was required by law to show up. other omb officials have so far refused to answer questions under oath even though they were invited to. but the past 30 hours or so revealed a series of major developments one after another, each one seemingly more damning to president trump than the last. testimony from two highly respected diplomats, one of whoem described how donald trump's personal attorney was operating outside normal channels at the president's direction to dig up dirt on the rivals back home. we heard from an aide who said he heard the president's own voice on a cell phone call talking to another u.s. ambassador about how ukraine's government was going along with the president's desire to investigate joe biden and his son. if that wasn't enough bad news for president trump yesterday, his longtime political adviser was found

it is not from mark sandy, the testimony that was released. the transcript that we have is of tim morrison and jennifer williams and back to you on this, scott. why are these two particular individuals who gave testimony important or not important in the scope of things? morrison and williams. that is the transcript we just got in, jennifer williams and timothy morrison. >> i have not yet seen that testimony. i will say after a bombshell week of testimony in the public setting we saw from the three foreign service officers, dedicated foreign service officers, next week will be a lightning round. because you have eight officials that testified behind closed doors who will be testifying over the course of three days tuesday, wednesday, thursday, including alexander vindman the lieutenant colonel who was on that july 25th phone call and the two individuals you just mentioned including tim morrison. >> okay. so a lot of moving parts here. we'll just take them in and turn them up and spit them out the best way we can here. if we go to the first ful

>> mark sandy is a senior official at the office of management and budget. she a career official, and he worked for republicans and democrats. whether or not trup and his allied eld funds back from ukraine to get dirt on a political rival. that is the part of the white house responsible for either releasing that aide or with holding that aide and sandy is the first person to come and testify. they have tried to talk to several several officials. sandy did show up today. essentially you're hearing or looking at once we see this transcript wes about whether or not it raised red flags. and it follows a night of what democrats are calling critical testimony that happened behind closed doors, and the testimony of david homes at the embassy in ukraine is critical because they think it advances the impeachment inquiry. here is why. homes said that he overheard a conversation between the ambassador to the european union gordon sondland and president trump talking about those investigations. according to a transcript, holmes was at lunch with sondland and two other s

right now the white house office of management an budget official, mark sandy, is testifying behind closed hill. arriving about an hour ago for a rare saturday deposition, sandy is expected to detail what he knows about the president's decision to hold up aid to ukraine. his testimony comes after another witness gave a firsthand account of overhearing president trump demanding ukraine investigate the bi

tell us more about what likely is being asked. >> reporter: well, fred, this is mark sandy. as you mentioned, he is a senior official at the office of management and budget. i kind of want to take a step back as to why this department within the white house is so important right now. when we think about the impeachment inquiry as a whole, we have to remember that all of this stemmed from one thing. did president trump and his allies withhold aid from ukraine in an effort to get dirt on a political rival of president trump's? now, when you think about the office of management and budget that is exactly what they do. they would either be the ones who released the aid to ukraine or the ones who withheld it. that's why sandy is so important. and again, a career official, this is not somebody who was appointed by the president as we've seen before in the office of management and budget. this is somebody who has worked for both democrats and republicans. and despite the fact that these investigators have tried to get information as to what this process looked like when the aid was

one of them from omb, mark sandy, a top official and national security. the other, phil reeker, the acting assistant. he barely told lawmakers in the sworn deposition that he was not given any reason why the nearly $400 million in authorized aid to ukraine was frozen until september so how concerning is that lack of transparency? >> it's very concerning. it sadly meets all the evidence we heard in the open hearings. of course of two weeks. what else i saw and i was only able to read some of the top line releases on that deposition. were that once he questioned why this aid was being withheld, he learned number one it was the president directly who upheld the aid. he learned that through mick mulvaney's office but then he was removed from authorization of foreign aid. he was taken off those duties. you know, he also said he was gravely concerned about the legality of withholding that aid. what we know is there was an attempt to extort a foreign democracy, brand-new president, in change for dirt on a political opponent. the president tried to self-deal. tri

what are we going to learn from mark sandy today? >> sandy is interesting.at omb. it's washington scandal 101 to follow the money. that's the one piece of this that democrats have not been able to do thus far. if you look at the witnesses that have come forth so far, you've had state department officials, a surprising number of officials connected to the national security council, but you have not had people come forward who have had their hands on this money at some point in the process. sandy is the first of those. so he could potentially tell democrat as great deal about where the money was going, why it was held up, and the concerns in the building, whether it was done so illegally or not. we know that from one of the defense department officials there was some concern it was slim illegal to hold up this money in the way the president asked for. sandy could shed light on all of that. notably the attorney said he did not come with an opening statement. but, zbe, it's one more piece of the puzzle for democrats and a critical one when you get back to the co

according to mark sandy, the withholding of that -- of that money was part of the reason why two omb officials resigned. including one official from the omb's legal department. sandy also provided even more revealing context to the timeline of the aid and then there's this. he testified that the white house chief of staff, mick mulvaney, notified him that trump had directed the administration officials freeze ukraine's military aid. for more on this, i want to bring in the man who's been poring over the transcripts for us. nbc national political reporter. josh letterman. josh, mark sandy was one of the officials who testified behind closed doors about the role that the office of management and budget played in this $391 million. and he said some interesting things about why they did it, when they did it, and who was involved in the actual mechanics of holding back this aid. >> that's right. and let's back up to monday, ali. that's when the white house budget office, which we all omb, put out a statement saying everything that happened with this ukraine suspension of aid was done with

this is mark sandy. the office of management and budget, the agency that controls the flow of u.s. dollars. he's there now under subpoena, meaning he was required by law to show up. other omb officials have so far refused to answer questions under oath even though they were invited to. but the past 30 hours or so revealed a series of major developments one after another, each one seemingly more damning to president trump than the last. testimony from two highly respected diplomats,

let's release all the remaining transcripts including mark sandy, david holmes because mark sandy answerd day and for those who are pushing the impeachment. >> you say what you heard yesterday is going to blow away the adam schiff narrative? >> yeah, they had the quid pro quo narrative and that reached the dead in and then they changed excursion last sunday and during the week they changed to the bribery and stopped using quid pro quo and extortion. so there was a hole in the facts, we are to have the whole but this is a deeper bigger hole because this is mark sandy who is a political appointee and a career employee who has been in the government for decades and his answer was candid, genuine, believable and he asked why there was a hold on to ukraine and it does not fit the narrative of adam schiff. >> you want these transcript were free ask questions or going to the public hearings next week. congressman, you've had such courage and leadership since you took the job in congress. you are also one of two who have voted against the inquiry to begin with, why? >> i just think we keep going

"the post" reports that mark sandy was among the career staffers who raised questions about the hold up on the aid. and speaker pelosi kicked her rhetoric up a notch today using the word bribery to describe trump's actions towards ukraine going further than she ever has before. >> the devastating testimony corroborated evidence of bribery uncovered in the inquiry and that the president abused power and violated his oath by threatening to withhold military aid in a white house meeting in exchange for an investigation into his political rival. the bribe is to grant or with hold military assistance in return for a public statement of a fake investigation into the elections. that's bribery. >> that's bribery. pelosi's remarks come just days after house intelligence committee chairman adam schiff told npr that trump's potentially impeachable offenses include bribery. and notably the u.s. constitution explicitly names two impeachable offenses, treason and bribery. and as "the new york times" writes pelosi's use of the word bribery is significant because it's suggested that democrats are in

mark sandy is saying he's going to testify. and he given his job would appear to be super important to the story because he appears to be the nonpartisan technocrattic expert career official who did noilgsally sign-off on holding up this aid to ukraine on the president's orders and we believe expressing what the president orders was illegal, he appears to be the guy they had to push out, who they had to replace with the former executive director of the wisconsin republican party, the guy who would be happy to sign-off on keeping ukraine from getting its military assistance even if the career expert staff thought that was illegal to do so. now the acareer expert staff guy has agreed to testify. his lawyer telling "the washington post" tonight, quote, if he is subpoenaed he will appear. quote, mr. sandy was among the career staffers who raised questions about the hold up on the aid, and his role gave him responsibility for signing the documents required to hold it up. sandy's signature appears on at least one of these so-called a

well obviously they're stepping up to build upon, including the testimony from mark sandy. abigail, your take on that? >> here's a career official, similar to george kent, bill taylor and marie yovanovitch. he's one of the individuals who actually signed one of the appropriation documents about the hold on this military aid. and interestingly, over you know last week, on wednesday evening democrats had a closed-door meeting where they went over some polling. what they found was that the american public sort of understands what is going on in the impeachment inquiry in broad terms. but they don't quite understand this military aid portion of it. so what democrats need to do is make that more salient. make them understand it and show them mark sandy who had this up-close relationship to the information and the hold to make that point and try to get that out into the public discourse around impeachment. >> okay, guys i want to go through a second headline we have. that being the take-aways from marie yovanovitch's testimony. among them were the consistent gop effort to counter

well, mark sandy's deposition gives us more color about what was happening behind the scenes at omb.testified he told omb lawyers and leadership the order which came without explanation may very well have violated the law. and two staffers left after expressing frustrations about the hold on ukrainian aid. he spent it last several hours combing through these transcripts. josh, i think there were 400 pages -- speed-reader. what did you learn? what was the most important detail? >> a lot of reading to go through tonight, katey, but it was worth it because we had new information we did not have before. the new information being we now know there was not one but two officials within the white house budget office who resigned at least in part because they were so concerned about what was happening with the suspension in ukraine aid. and i want to she you exactly what mark sandy said about one of those people who resigned, a legal advisor, someone who was an attorney in the white house budget office. and he was asked in his deposition are you aware of any individual in the legal division r

let's release all the remaining transcripts including mark sandy, david holmes because mark sandy answeredhat he gave yesterday to the question made for a very bad day for those who are pushing impeachment. >> the view is that sandy said duffy one to go through the appropriation that's why this was held on. >> that's the difficulty that he outlined, some officials are testifying and they have not seen what other people have said such as gordon sondland, they find themselves having a little bit of trouble, gordon sondland had to go back and amend his testimony reflecting he did recall certain details that he earlier said that he did not have any knowledge of. without those transcripts, people could be getting that the lawmakers already know the answer to that will happen behind closed doors but the person being asked does not kn know. >> witnesses this coming week gordon sondland basic with a big star of the whole week. wilson see what happens. >> be sure to stick around after our newscast, "fox news sunday" will be on, chris wallace has an exclusive interview and will sit down with house m

the first letter withholding of funds was signed by mark sandy. by july 30th, five days later, sandy says his boss took over responsibilities for allocating that aid. duffy, his boss is not a career official like sandy. duffy is a political appointee. sandy testified all throughout the month s of july and august, why aid was being withheld. and it was not until the time the hold on aid was lifted in early september that mark sandy heard for the first time, the rational for the home that you are familiar with. the president was concerned about other countries not providing as much aid to ukraine as the u.s. does. finally, two budget staffers at the office of management and budget expressed frustration about the unexplainable on this ukrainian aid. one official told sandy there were legal agency at least in part because of their concerns over the whole. >> joining us now our leig leigh ann caldwell and jill wine-banks. welcome both of you. jill, i want to start with the newest information we have. the reporting that the president was being looked at

withholding the aid and that's the subject of all the other depositions and inquiry. >> back to mark sandy who you brought up in that deposition transcript. it was released for him. he was a career white house budget staffer. sandy said two staffers who left their jobs at omb expressed frustration over this money being withheld. omb denies that. it's my understanding you know mark sandy. michael, can you tell me about him? >> sure. yeah. i mean, mark -- i've worked -- we didn't overlap at omb but he came right over and i've worked with mark. she a dedicated career official. one of the highest level career officials at omb. you have to understand they're 92%, 93% career. look, he was trying to do the right thing. i think there are questions about -- it's odd that he was asked to execute this portion or this hold on the ukraine aid but not given any explanation of why. >> hmm. >> and, look. i think that's -- that is -- you know, it raises questions about the whole process. >> sure. sure. and you know, looking at your resume, you have crazy extensive experience when it comes to congressional

>> mark sandy is as career official at the office of management and budget. he's not as political appointee of president trump. he decided to defy the order, trying to present all of these lawyers testifying. it was the omb that was involved and stopping the $400 million aid from flowing into ukraine. the aid went to ukraine but there was a delay, it was ordered according to reporting by the president, sets forth by mulvaney and the omb director and mr. sandy should shed much more light and details in the process inside. and what the system was for documenting that. >> we should repeat these witnesses that have come forward are about to appear in these hearings. they are not limited in their testimony to what's on the deposition indeed, mr. taylor, gave us new details we did not know. what is yovanovitch likely able to add to the story tomorrow? >> well, what she does not know a lot about is what happened after she left. so she does not have a lot of visibility on july 5th phone call. she knows a lot about what happens leading up to her firing and the campaig

a career official sandy mark sandy raises concerns with a senior omb official in the middle of july about, can we do this. july 30th, 12 days after sandy raised some concerns, a political aide michael duffy takes over the process. duffy signs documents holding up the aid. the white house will say nothing wrong here, we just decided to have michael duffy take over. but if you track what happened with ambassador yovanovitch and the career people being shoved aside in the earlier dispute, here's another case where somebody raises his hand, says i think this is wrong and a political person comes in and does what the president wants. >> and this new revelation by the "new york times" that the president was actually aware of the whistleblower complaint, which begs the question would they have released the aid had the president not known? was this something that made them concerned and prompted them to release the aid? this is very important to answer. >> it's the democrats' argument that they got caught. the president has a chance to counter that. he won't let any of these people testify, so if

up next, mark sandy testifying behind closed doors. what we know about his testimony and how it could affect the impeachment hearing. office of management and budget will join us next. will join us next. ♪ exxonmobil is growing algae for biofuels. that could one day power planes, propel ships, and fuel trucks... and cut their greenhouse gas emissions in half. algae. its potential just keeps growing. ♪ (groans) hmph... (food grunting menacingly) when the food you love doesn't love you back, stay smooth and fight heartburn fast with tums smoothies. ♪ tum tum-tum tum tums high protein. low sugar. tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good! high protein. low sugar. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein. the best combination for every fitness routine. (honk!) i hear you sister. that's why i'm partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual check-up, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel - physically and emotionally. but now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. just find a period of time

mark sandy's appearance followed that explosive day of testimony that saw top u.s. diplomats support accusations that the president not only knew about but orchestrated communications with others in another country to hurt his political rivals. the former ambassador to ukraine testified. something happened during the former ambassador's testimony yesterday, something unprecedented. president trump tweeted a personal and professional attack on the ambassador while she was speaking to the house intelligence committee. the proceedings were interrupted to address this attack, which ambassador marie yovanovitch described as intimidating. the president later said he was just exercising his right to free speech. lauren fox joins us now from capitol hill. lauren, let's talk more about what happened there today. mark sandy, he was there to talk about what he knows about that $400 million aid package to ukraine that was frozen over the summer. what did he say? what do you know about his testimony? >> well, it's a busy day on capitol hill, a saturday, ana. what mark sandy told

four hours so far, hearing from mark sandy. last they had another deposition, hearing from david holmes, a di pr blow matt who da diplomat who was at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. he indicated he overheard a telephone call between gordon sondland and president trump talking about, quote, investigations. that is key. they'll have gordon sondland in next week. i talked to debbie wasserman schultz last night. she was in the deposition. she wouldn't tell us what was said but it was, quote, disturbing and significant. republicans continue to say that democrats are not laying a glove on president trump. here's republican ohio congressman jim jordan. >> they can keep having secret depositions down here in the basement of the capitol but i think the american people see through this whole thing. >> what do you think of yesterday's deposition and testimony there about the phone call? >> some guy overheard a phone call. we'll have him in an open hearing. we'll get a chance to he question him there. >> reporter: the yovanovitch hearing from

so mark sandy a very important witness for democrats today. ana? >> okay, lauren fox on capitol hill for us. thank you. joining us with more on where we go as we plow forward in the impeachment process, cnn political commentator se cupp and keith boykin, former aide to the clinton white house. so breaking news, these new transcripts just released today. we're hearing from two more people on the actual phone call on july 25th, expressing concern. they will be testifying publicly this week. doesn't this sort of poke holes in the primary defense we've heard from republicans, which is all this is hearsay? >> yeah, hearsay because no one actually heard donald trump say what he's alleged to have said. and it does fall apart. it falls apart because now we have david holmes. we have other people who were on the call who are going to testify as to what they heard. i've been saying this, though, for weeks. donald trump himself said it. donald trump himself said it to cameras. >> look at the white house memorandum. >> he said look at the transcript. but more

that's why democrats wanted mark sandy up here on the hill a top budget official. they hope he can show them something, some piece of evidence that no other witness could. tonight, another crack in the white house impeachment firewall, with career budget official mark sandy defying the white house, spending more than five hours behind closed doors with house investigators. >> we want to know exactly how the president translated his political objective to shake down the ukrainian government for the favors he wanted, translated into the budget process. >> reporter: sandy on the hill to offer insight into the decision to delay military aid to ukraine. aid that included weapons like this, anti-armor systems and mor tars, and u.s. military trainers which were eventually delivered but democrats allege the $400 million of military aid was held up by the president who tried to use it as leverage to pressure ukraine to investigate former vice president joe biden and his son, hunter. republicans today digging in in defense of the president. >> you know, that's a thing about

. >> a closed door deposition with omb official mark sandy just finishing. new transcripts just coming out at the top of the hour about 20 minutes ago, that of testimony given by timothy morrison, that's one we have, as well as jennifer williams. we are looking at about 20 pages that we are going through right now. >> according to congressman adam schiff, the testimony shows that president trump's july 25th phone call with ukrainian president zelensky immediately set off alarm bells throughout the white house. >> democrats are now gearing up for a busy week of public hearings of what could be pivotal testimony from eight witnesses. >>> so our reporters and analysts they are ready to go through all the new developments in this impeachment inquiry. so the first big headline to address this hour, brand-new transcripts released of closed-door testimony from jennifer williams an aide to vice president mike pence and tim morrison the former national security council's russia and europe director. williams telling investigators that the call was, quote, unusual and

his name is mark sandy. he's expected to talk about the holdup, brief holdup of military aid to ukraine. our senior capitol producer is on the hill. chad you've been working around the clock and now a rare time on saturday they're working behind closed doors. what do we know how it's playing out. >> that tells you a lot just the fact that you'd have someone come up on a saturday morning for a deposition underscores the importance of this official. central to the democrats' argument about impeachment here is there's a reason why aid to ukraine was held up. this whole idea of trying to investigate the bidens, there's a reason why they want to hear from mark sandy today. keep in mind they've been trying to get other omb officials in the door including the actor director, and the acting director of omb, mick mulvaney, he was subpoenaed, so far no dice on that, ed. ed: interesting. late last night after everything, we'll talk in a moment about what happened in public yesterday. in private, after the hearing ended

president pence's aide, jennifer williams and minutes ago investigators finished the deposition of mark sandyhe was expected to talk about the holdup of military aid to ukraine. meantime, reaction coming in from both sides of the aisle, showing the growing split on impeachment. >> you had one thing in mind, he wanted to shake down president zelensky for his participation in the be president's political scheme. >> they've got this problem, they lost, they had to flip the narrative. they've tried quid pro quo. they're trying bribery. we'll see if they ever get around to taking a vote. eric: we have team fox news coverage today. allison better i barber is at te house. let's begin with chad pilgrim, he's live on the hill. he's been all over this story on this saturday. >> reporter: we're told that omb official mark sand econ clouded his deposition. he was here for about six hours. he has not left the building yet as far as we know. just about two minutes before we came on the air, fox obtained a transcript here from jennifer williams, the nsc official who delivered a deposition a couple weeks ago

that official is named mark sandy, and he spoke with impeachment investigators. why? all right. we'll get into that in just a bit. but the time line is what matters. tonight the "times" is reporting that in late august, before it was known to the public -- that's key -- white house lawyers told the president about the whistle-blower complaint. now, we had heard that there had been communication interagency about the whistle-blower and what to do and what they had, but not this far, that the president himself knew. they didn't yet know what the information would come to, whether it would go to congress or not. it wasn't until september 9th when congress launched the investigation. that same day, trump's million dollar donor turned eu pa ambassador called the president. reeve this? >> i believe i just asked him an open ended question. what do you want from ukraine? i keep hearing all these different ideas and theories and this and that. what do you want? it was a very short, abrupt conversation. he was not in a good mood. he said, i want nothing. i want nothing. i want no quid pro

. >>> and the latest transcript released by democrats mark sandy, the only omb official to testify told impeachment investigators that staffers were frustrated by the inexplicable hold on the ukraine aid, so much so that two people quit. he also told lawmakers that re-asked repeatedly why the aid was being with held and warned omb lawyers and leadership that doing so could be against the law. >>> with the president's defenses crumbling, you might wonder when he may look to unload it all on someone else, perhaps his personal attorney who has been at the center of it all? >> no. i didn't direct him, but he -- he is a warrior. rudy is a warrior. >> what was rudy giuliani doing in ukraine on your behalf? >> well, you have to ask that to rudy, but i don't know -- i know he was going to go to ukraine and i think he cancelled the trip. but you know, rudy has other clients other than me. i'm one person. >> you didn't direct him to go there on your behalf? >> no. no. but you have to understand, rudy is a great corruption fighter. >> so the problem with that is the president's attempt to publicly

mark sandy. that of course is one the offices that mulvaney runs along with being acting chief of staff. he said he had never before seen an official do that. and he raised questions about whether that violated the control act of of 1974. >> you know the sad thing is this is supposed to be delivered. wh why wasn't it delivered? i think rank and file officials are wondering what is the hold up? this is not a normal process. er it wasn't delivered and apparently for domestic political reasons. the president wanted some leverage over ukraine to get dirt on joe biden. >> that point is an important one. because part of the argument to justify the hold is that'ser the natural part opolicy, which isn't persuasive at all. it was signed into law by the president. dotting the i's, crossing the t's and cutting the check. >> that's why mulvaney to get back the original question. because he is the act omb director. and this is the kujal. the leverage trump had to extract what he wanted from the president off

investigators released transcripts from the testimony of the acting assistant secretary of state and mark sandy. sandy was involved in implementing the president's hold back of security aid to ukraine last summer, and he's the only budget official to testify in the house inquiry. he testified he received the order to freeze aid to ukraine by e-mail, noting the e-mail did not mention any other country nor any other aid package. it targeted just ukraine. he testified that throughout all of july and august he could get no explanation for why the hold was put in place. it wasn't until early september that sandy received an e-mail that attributed the hold to the president's concern about other countries not contributing more to ukraine. his testimony appears consistent with the reporting from "the washington post" that the white house had engaged in extensive efforts to generate an after the fact justification for the decision to freeze that money to ukraine. sandy also testified he's aware of the two former staffers who left the omb at least in part from concerns related to that aid freezing in ukr

. >> take a look at the private deposition yesterday from mark sandy, and you were at, and he is the first omb official to testify, and this what congressman lee zelden said after. >> in order to put out a new shiny object with the moving goalpost, and the speaker started to use bribery, because extortion fizzled out, and quid pro quo fizzled out before that, and the answer today, and the answers given today as it relates to that only further drives a bigger hole into that argument. this is a great day for our country, and i mean, it is a bad day for democrats. >> i am going to guess that you disagree with that. and can you tell me the impact that sandy's testimony had on the democrat's arguments? >> well, we have been asked not to specifically cite exchanges and questions and answers in depositions until such time as the depositions are released. as evidenced by our behavior, the depositions are being produced and as timely a fashion as possibly, and made available to the public as was the case yesterday and that is the case with mr. sandy's deposition as well. i would however in a

office of management and budget official mark sandy just arriving to testify behind those closed doorsas said, we are told u.s. withholding aid to the ukraine. we shall see. good morning, everyone. happy to see all of you. i'm neil cavuto and yo you are watching cavuto live chad pergram on capitol hill where the deposition is about to go down. >> mark sandy arrived been b. 17, 18 minutes ago on capitol hill for this rare saturday deposition. again, they were holding a late night deposition last night that went until about 10:00 after that lengthy hearing with the former ambassador to ukraine, maria yovanovitch. they started a little late. and that's why the deposition went so late last night. now, the witness today, mark sandy, he started to raise some questions about why they were holding up the aid to ukraine. you know, and people are going back and recalibrating that hearing yesterday with maria yovanovitch. republicans are struggling somewhat to kind of curate their own narrative. it went haywire after the president sent that tweet blasting maria yovanovitch yesterday morning. i as

. >> and a few hours from now, white house budget first mark sandy is expected to testify. he's expected to talk about what he knows about the decision to hold up ukraine. >>> and roger stone found guilty on seven counts including lying, witness tampering, and obstruction. >> and the lawyers are taking a matter to the supreme court asking to block riis returns on two cases now. >>> covering the impeachment from all angles now. our reporters are spread out across washington. good to see you. we warrant to start out with kristen holmes out on capitol hill. david holmes' testimony, talk about what we've learned, and good morning. >> good morning, christi. we talked to a lot of democrats who think this testimony is critical. let's take a step back and look at who david holmes is. he's a staffer at the ukrainian embassy and earlier this week he overheard a conversation between president trump and the ambassador to ukraine gordon sondland about the investigations. i want to set the scene. he says he was at a meal with sondland and two other staffers when sondland placed a call to

is regarding that hold on aid and not be able to reference at all the deposition transcript of mark sandy from the office of management and budget is intentionally withholding key information from the american public. the transcript should have been released before this morning's hearing even kicked off. >> and he said that there was a -- >> the house intelligence committee breaking for 30 minutes after four hours of testimony this morning from the u.s. ambassador to the european union's gordon sondland. when they come back the chair, adam schiff, says they'll begin the five-minute rounds with the members of the committee. there are 22 lawmakers on that committee. we are looking at another hour and a half, two hours of testimony with the u.s. ambassador to the e.u. we want to get your reaction to what you have heard so far. numbers are on the screen. we'll get your calls in just a minute. first here's president trump earlier today with his reaction to mr. sondland's testimony. president trump: just quick comments on what's going on in terms of testimony with ambassador sondland. i just no

who exactly is mark sandy and why is his testimony considered to be so key right now? >> reporter: kendis, he's a career official at the budget office. the way one democrat explained, nos providing sexy testimony but the person that can take a political plot by donald trump to withhold this money from ukraine and translate it through the bureaucracy in actual action. someone whose desk the paperwork would have had to pass to send the $400 million, a portion of it to ukraine or stop it. explaining the government machinery behind the scenes that put this plot into action. it speaks to the importance we're standing here on a saturday and that now having already started the public phase of the inquire, a step back making sure they get information from all potential witnesses behind closed doors first. >> sandy is testifying after receiving a subpoena. right? from congress? >> reporter: this has become commonplace here even for witnesses who probably would have come without them, but, yes. sandy received a subpoena overnight. remember, the administration put up a firewall a

he is mark sandy, a veteran of the white house budget office. a source familiar with his testimony says sandy told lawmakers he was confused, didn't know why the 400 million in military funds to ukraine were suddenly frozen, but sandy did provide a possible clue. he said a political appointee, michael duffy, insisted on taking over the ukraine account and signed some documents putting that security assistance on holiday. sandy toughed that duffy's actions were an unusual departure from the normal budget process. here's cnn's lauren fox with details of those deposition transcripts that just dropped. >> reporter: on saturday, we got new details about timors morris who testified last month that he came to understand that eu ambassador gordon sondland was getting direction from trump. morrison testified behind closed doors that he believed that sondland and president trump had spoken approximately five times between july 25th, the date of that phone call between president zelinsky and president trump and september 11th, when nearly $400 million in u

mark sandy told lawmakers that two officials at the office of management and budget had left jobs and both had concerns that military aid to ukraine was held up. back with jeffrey gergen appear jeffrey koob toobin a devastated urban process. it's not a big deal says the. but when two government officials quit over concerns that's kind of a big deal. >> again it's a cumulative set of facts. this alone doesn't prove anything. but it's yet another fact that shows how out of the ordinary in was, how improper it was, and how the people responsible to actually follow the law were upset about it. >> and mick mulvaney gave the famous news conference mot just acting chief of staff but still has authority over omb. he told the country we should all get over it. but people within his agency, omb they clearly weren't getting over it, kirsten. >> no, and i mean it's not, the fact that you had multiple people quit over this i think is important information. but there was also a lot of concerns, a memo written, you know concerns that this violates the law, that the -- there was pretty much nobody ot

mark sandy. an attorney for the omb says that he'll testify behind closed doors on saturday if he is subpoenaed. breaking ranks with the acting director and two others who have refused to testify. this is all new information. and this is a big deal. let me tell you why, because omb is responsible for releasing that $400 million in aid for ukraine. aid that multiple officials say was held up to pressure ukraine into giving the president investigations that would benefit him politically here at home. that as he is holding a rally in alabama tonight. you can almost set your watch by it. he feels threatened then he holds a rallied. the president's republican defenders grasping at some pretty flimsy straws right now. they would have you believe that there is no there, there. there's senator lindsey graham who in a previous life was clinton impeachment manager, but now says the whole thing is over and done with for him after just one day of hearings. >> i'm really over with this. this whole thing is a