involvement was going back to at least december of '18 when he told me that one of his investigators, mark schwartz corruption in ukraine and certain people that were associated with it. giuliani asked m e to meet with that individual which i did and vetted a little bit. then lindsey back in january when we did the shokin interview, giuliani didn't trust the fbi or anybody he could take it to. the only person he said he trusts is lindsey graham, and that's who he would take it to. so it was understood that even at early stages, that lindsey graham was involved and aware of what was going on. now, what he did, that's what we have a trial for, and if the witnesses come out, you know, we would hear more and see if he took any action on certain things that i could testify and certain dates that giuliani told me. >> and in your new letter you say you would have testified to a conversation that you say you heard between giuliani and rick perry, who was then running the energy department and, quote, you said a quid pro quo was conveyed by mr. perry to zelensky. what can you tell us about that? >> absolute