of it because, of course, i mean, in some way in the book she's portrayed a little bit like marlene dietrich, this mysterious woman who won't talk to anyone, who won't see anyone. and in some ways your story is about finding her, meeting her and also trying to capture who she is. so is it a long process of being in touch with her? >> it was almost like to courtship, honestly. i tried to -- first, i tried to really impress her and seem very businesslike and smart, but she just put me in my place immediately, you know? because i was young and naive, and what could i possibly know? >> this is on the phone, right? >> this is all on the phone, exactly. so the first time that madam nhu called me, i wasn't expecting her to call. i'd been writing her letters for months, i had been -- you know, i had knocked oner door that day, i had done everything except for see her, and she called me out of the blue. so she dictated very early on the terms of our relationship; when she would call, who she would leave messages with, how i should address her. very specific things. and, in fact, in that first convers

church with a roster of perspective celebrities that included people like bob hope, walt disney, marlene dietrich, howard hughes, the most famous people in the world. those are the kinds of people they sought to use as pitch men for their new religion. celebrities did come to the church. they built a celebrity center. celebrities would feel at home. in some of the early people that came into the church, rock hudson passed through, apparently he got very upset when he was in the middle of an auditing session and needed to put some more money in the parking meter and they wouldn't let him out of the room. he stormed out and never came back. gloria swanson, sort of the faded movie star of silent movies, later people like leonard cohen and even elvis presley made a stop. he didn't stay in the church but his widow and daughter are still prominent members. the idea was celebrities are useful. they become megaphones for advertising the church and its benefit and if you look at the people who have been their spokespeople, like john travolta and tom cruise, each of these guys was at one time the number on