martin van buren said, look, we've got to forget about those guys back there. they were aristocrats. we're living in a democratic world. van buren is the first man to become president who had no credentials whatsoever. that's not to say he had never won a battle, never been a great political figure, he hadn't written any great document. he was a master politician. he organized the best political party in the state of new york that catapulted it into the white house. van buren represented a whole new generation that disparaged the founders because they were aristocrats. it's lincoln who -- when people -- prior to the civil war when people talk about founders, they didn't mean washington and jefferson, they meant john winthrop, william bradford, john smith. the founders of the colonial, 17th century founders. after the civil war, and i think largely as a result of lincoln's foundation, the founders become the men that we celebrate. i think it's an interesting transformation. >> you've written this -- on this point, and i'll get back to your writing style, but you'

family that was afamous democratic politician in his day and he became vice president under martin van buren. he had a long-term relationship with an african-american woman who was also the slave and in some ways that relationship is reminiscent between sally hemmings many of you are probably familiar with that story. it provided a property for them, so it's a firestorm of controversy about race and place in antebellum america and at the school i mentioned is the academy that's famous in its d day. it is a voluntary school. so one of the question questiony our native people interested in education in the early period what do they want to get out of this, and it wasn't an extremely popular school, so eventually over the course of the school come 1845, 1848, about 700 students attended from all over the continent, different tribes that were different as bison hunters from the plane to the churcchurch readers to the great lakes. so it is a diverse place. and i wanted to tell the story because usually it focuses on those that turn west to conquer the continent. how did they try to meet americans

jeffrey, martin van buren? anti-nepotism law was put on the books in the 1960s. of course -- >> by lyndon johnson who was -- bobby kennedy. >> wait a minute. it is known as the bobby kennedy law and when i worked in the white house and my republican predecessors, we were bound by that law and we had to send family members away. i don't think it's proper to have jared and ivanka there. wafr the law says, there's arguments of the law. it makes no sense from a policy perspective. when we are -- please let me finish, jeffrey. when we are in a crisis, we want to know that the official advisers have the first loyalty to the united states, not to the man in the oval office whose their father or father-in-law? it's very dangerous for the country. it doesn't look right. a you will of them keeping the businesses and all of them are exploiting the office. i can't believe what's happening. >> norman, when you get to -- >> we need to leave it there, gentleman gentlemen. >> all right. >> finish your sentence, jeffrey. and then we'll run. >> critical of politicians for doing th

. >> mika is upset that -- >> you cannot bring up martin van buren, french and indian war or -- >> shades>> exactly. and my question is, here we have someone who prides himself on dealing with his pragmatism? if he wanted to master the new york media and new york tabloid world he hired roy cohn. >> jared's never been down to washington, ivanka hasn't been down to washington. they don't know washington just like i don't know development in new york city. >> if you want to do a panel they're great. >> i can tell you this. if i were going to build a 90-story skyscraper, i would get the smartest people, the best lobbyists, the best architects, the best builders and i would bring them in and say i need to build a -- i know nothing about this. you guys are the experts. >> talk to me. >> what's the first thing i need to do? >> not his management style. those three or four guys he has surrounded himself with on foreign policy -- >> he has done it on foreign policy. >> and take that into domestic policy. >> bob costa, why can't he do that in domestic policy? >> i think there are influential names