marty dempsey just retired as the chair of the joint chiefs. he spoke. joined with the nba "taps," a group called tragedy assistant protective for survivors. the families who have lost a brother, sister, mother or father. and each of the cities that we have played exhibitions, when we did the national anthem, a taps kid was with us. and in chicago, we had a ceremony in practice privately, where about 70 of them were there. and a number of them lined up at half court. and coachingm staff did and they had buttons , with a picture of the person who was killed. and they gave us their buttons. charlie: both of you have experienced failure. in terms of you having injury and with your back and going through a rough patch. the same thing for you. tell me about that. what are the lessons to be learned from that struggle? and the sense of recognizing that you are not all powerful. michael: yes. for me to become the person who i am today, i found myself in the darkest possible place that any human being could go. and that was the worst three or four days of my life

marty dempsey who just retired as chair of the joint chiefs, a good friend, he spoke, and we actuallyjoined with the n.b.a. to help a group called taps -- tragedy assistance protection for survivors -- it's not funded by the government, but families who have lost a brother, sister, mother, a father, and in each of the cities we played exhibitions, when we did the national anthem, a taps kid was with us. in chicago, we had a ceremony in practice privately where about 70 of them were there, and a number of them lined up at half court, and then our whole team and coaching staff did, and they had buttons with a picture of the person who was killed, and they gave us their buttons. >> rose: both of you have experienced failure in terms of you having injury in your back and going through a very rough patch. the same thing for you. tell me about that. what are the lessons to be learned from that struggle? and the sense of recognizing that you are not all powerful? >> for me, to become the person who i am today, i found myself in the darkest possible place that any human being could go, and th