in ice two, it's hip-hop, rap, marvin gay, that's very deliberate to telegraph that the movement changedrom being a church-base movement to being a much more secular movement. henry hated rap and couldn't stand it. he hated hip-hop, he never came around to it. where am i going? it has to be done differently by each new generation, i don't know if that answers the question or not. >> in the civil rights leaders and top activists putting these things together, did you ever pick up a feeling from these leaders, church, et cetera, that they think they thought break the back of jim crowe starts in the 50's? was there ever a sense that they thought this could be done relatively quickly like apartheid in africa. all the experts thought it would never go that fast. >> that's an interesting question. i was not aware that any of the people in the movement, either that i knew in the south or that we interviewed wherever seriously troubled by doubt that this was achievable. it was so -- so right, you know, we were talking with orlando bag well yesterday and he said you can't be confused about whethe