you can see next to jack is horace busby and next to him, marvin watson. what role did those two play? >> i'll start with watson who just passed away recently. he was a sort of loner on the staff in the sense that he was a very conservative business executive and political operative from texas who johnson brought in to basically replace valeti at some point as appointment secretary, they're there on the same page they overlap some. watson was there for really the second half ojohnson's tenure. very conservative, very tough. he was sort of the guy who said no. wasn't involved deeply in policy. was not at his heart, in his heart a kind of great society or new frontier liberal. he, you know , he kind of touched the other staff members sometimes a bit rough. >> let me inject this from your page 2 where you talk about horace busby. i'm going to read it, in johnson's house and senate offices busby served as minister without portfolio. his principal mandate was to generate ideas. quote, the most successful politicians, l.b.j. told buzzby -- did this come from buzz

after the white house, what did marvin watson do?oshua: she went back to texas -- he went back to texas. brian: lobbying? we talked about jack. we talked about bill moyers. i do not know a lot about sorenson's career. healy stayed around for a couple weeks or months. he was just great stricken by kennedy's assassination. stricken by kennedy's assassination. brian: you have 80% of your stuff in there. days later, captain graham said -- katharine graham said to show sorenson a little love. he was marvelous but also a little hurt. we all have to just imagine how he feels in that he is a man who, instead of crying did this really naughty trick of being cantankerous and hurt. days afterse are the the assassination. he barely came into the office at that point. he helped write johnson's first speech before congress, the one where he calls for a civil rights act. he had a line in there to the effect of a company who cannot -- effect of, who cannot fill his shoes -- they struck that line from the speech. he thought unnecessarily with t unnec

after the white house, what did marvin watson do? he went back to texas. >> califano -- >> we talked about bill moyers, ed sorenson, we haven't -- ted sorensen, we have not mentioned. >> i don't know a great deal about his career after he left the white house. >> how long did he stay around? >> not very long, just for a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months. he was just grief-stricken by president kennedy's assassination. >> got to read this because you took this quote from graham who owned the "washington post." >> who called johnson and said, you've got 80% of your stuff in there, he insisted, days later, the publisher of the "washington post" advised to show sorenson a little love. he was "marvelous" but also very hurt, and i know the mood he was in and i don't forgive him for that but we all have to just imagine how he feels in that he's a man who instead of crying, did this really naughty trick of being cantankerous and hurt. what is she doing telling johnson this? >> this is in the days right after the assassination. sorens

mini press conference, he asked me to get george christian who was then the press secretary and marvin watson who had been my predecessor as appointment secretary but who was now running the punitive campaign for reelection, asked the three of us to come in for a drink in the little office off the oval office. and at that point, we again talked about whether he should or should not run. at the end, he said what do you fellows think? and we split 2-1. two of us thought he should run, one, george christian, thought he should not run. and we had no decisions at that point. so we continued to work on the speech, on saturday, it was at the white house. we went through several revisions of the speech. sunday morning he called me at my apartment in southwest washington and asked me to come down to the white house, that he and lucy were going to go to church that morning at st. dominic's church over in southwest washington. he asked me to go with him. so while we're in church, he said -- asked the secret service to get the i will not run part off his night table and bring are it to him and then also

he asked me to get journal christian and marvin watson, who had been my predecessor who was now running the punitive campaign for re-election. he asked the three of us to come in for a drink off the office of the oval office. at that point, we again talked about whether he should or should not run. at the end, he said what do you fellows think? and we split 2-1. two of us thought he should run, george christian thought he should not run, and we had no decisions at that point. so we continued to work on the speech, on saturday, it was at the white house. we went through several revisions of the speech. sunday morning, he called to my apartment in southwest washington and asked me to come down to the white house, that he and lucy were going to go to church that morning in southwest washington. he asked me to go with him. so while we're in church, he said, ask to get the iteration that i will not run part off of his night table, and bring it to him. and then also call hubert humphrey, who was the vice president, and ask him to delay his departure to mexico city that day because he wanted t

was a militant guard to the door of the oval office, and lyndon johnson had an ex-marine named marvin watson was even tougher. those two presidents would be astounded to hear that they were acting as their own chief of staff. >> a massachusetts irishman for kennedy and a texan for lyndon johnson. can you imagine a functioning west wing with, as bannon said, five or six direct reports, a very loosey-goosey style like trump tower, a much smaller family business than running the united states? >> it would be completely chaotic. to use the johnson example, look at the summer of 1965. johnson was simultaneously making world-shattering decisions about vietnam and civil rights and education, medicare, the great society. you can't do that with a president deciding who's going to come into the oval office, and especially these scenes we've heard about in the early trump presidency when there was a fairly weak chief of staff reince priebus but these stories of people flooding in and milling around and handing the president pieces of paper with the news from sources from god knows where. >> there are t