he was replacing a legend in the office, mary jo white jesse:. came the security and exchange -- mary jo white. a lot of characters in my book have cameos and then reemerged in the trump years. he says i'm going to give you a speech, but before i do, how many of you guys have never lost a case? a bunch of hands shoot up. these are the best of the best of the best. they have gone to the best law schools, think of themselves as the best trial lawyers in the country. they are very proud of their records. he says me and my buddies have -- have a name for you guys. you are the chicken bleep club. william: what did he mean by that? jesse: you can't be just about winning. your ambition is to do justice. you have to take on the most powerful people you can, and that is how you do justice in america. william: and so, did these people take this message to heart? did they change their behavior as a result? this is a book about fail you to prosecute. -- failure to secure. they don't unfortunately the department of justice writ club.comes the chicken-s now i a

that's not the lesson amazingly enough that mary jo white, lanny brewer and eric holder learns. >> cohan: lanny brewer being eric holder's righthand man. >> yes, the head of the criminal division in the justice department under obama and eric holder under covington and burlington, both leave a big firm to go under obvious and return to covington and burlington. >> cohan: and lanny caught on tape in the documentary where he's espousing the holder doctrine, if you will. >> exactly. so they internalized a different message from anderson. they internalized that this is a terrible thing, that we can't put people out of work, it's too disruptive, and when the financial crisis happens, they're very trepidacious about prosecuting a bank because the markets are so fragile. my argument, if you are worried about systemic consequences of prosecutor companies, focus on individuals. instead, they don't. i think it is a skill set issue. they don't put the resources or time in. they say they have every incentive to do it but they don't have the incentives to do it and that has to do with the revolving d

and as a second question, at the tail end of mary jo white's tenure she talked about some of the rules she felt could have been finished but there was not a quorum. she mentioned some of the title 7 rules. what's the fate of title 7 at this point? is the commission ever going to adopt some of those rules that were apparently ready at the end of her time? >> there is -- yeah, so title 7, for those of you who aren't familiar with it, it part of dodd/frank, deals with over-the-counter derivatives. the jurisdiction is split between the ftc and cftc. they're revisiting some of the rules, looking at the implementation burdens. i believe the acting chairman has announced they'll start revisiting some of those. the s.e.c., we have not gone as far on a number of rules since we have the opportunity to move forward on some of those. at the same time, we need to make sure that we work with the cftc to make sure that our rules are harmonized within the -- they have jurisdiction over swaps. we have security based swap. a number of participants, whether on the dealer or customer said, aide are in bot