professor of women's gender and sexuality studies at a higher state university from minneapolis, mary moria. he a former chief public defender for minneapolis last year from las vegas, diane goldstein, a retired police left canons and also executive director of the law enforcement action partnership. that's an organization of law enforcement officers who want to reform the criminal justice system. thank you all for joining us today. mary. i want to start with you because you were the format chief public defender hennepin county where this trial actually took place and you've been a public defender now for 31 years. did derek show the sentence, surprise you at all? not at all. i think most of us thought he was going to get a sentence in the range of 20 to 25 years so that that was pretty much what we thought. right, and terms of reaction, i'm curious, this is the longest sentence, i believe for a police officer in minnesota. i see george boyd's brother rodney called us a slap on the wrist. but other observers, including members of the trans, massive movement have said that they've been reall