back with us is mary schiavo, also chief ramsey and pete muntean. um, mary, what happens now? i mean, obviously police on the ground, firefighters on the ground putting out flames, trying to find victims, trying to find anybody injured that they can transport to, to hospitals. and in terms of the actual investigation of the aircraft that that's already underway, they're going to try to get there as quickly as possible. >> they're going to try to get there as quickly as possible. they're undoubtedly gathering records, fueling records. they will be gathering records on any maintenance on the plane. all the other stops of the plane. they are gathering those records, but they won't be able to get on site until the firefighters and

i do now want to bring in mary schiavo, former inspector general of the u.s. epartment of transportation. mary, i just want to step back for a moment because, again, seeing a plane on its not right side, not wheels. it's on the top. it's on the ceiling or the roof here. how does this happen? explain kind of the mechanics of something like this. >> well, if happen in a couple of ways and accidents that i've worked on in the past, one, it hits something upon landing and then did not do a stabilized landing. it lost its gear. this i'm talking about asiana in california, probably about ten or so years ago. and then that, uh, you know, came in, tipped one wing and it cartwheeled, um, you know, another one where if you came in and you exited the runway at toronto, pearson, while it's nice, long and flat, there are berms. there is a highway, there are other there's other equipment. and this does appear to have exited the runway. and in that case, if you lost your landing gear, and most particularly if you had a hefty. crosswind. now on the rj 900, the crosswind limits

here with me in the studio, cnn aviation analyst mary schiavo, who is a former inspector general forepartment of transportation. also here, former faa administrator billy nolan. i'm trying to wrap my mind around what an investigation would look like now. an explosion. how do you try to understand or figure out what happened? >> well, the ntsb is already gathering data. it's looking for the maintenance records. it's looking for the fueling records. it's going to be important. you know, were the manifests and what was loaded on that plane. so already there in the paper gathering process, because they can't access the site, there's no burning materials and fuel and contamination and, and people to, to take care of. but when they then go to the site, obviously they will collect all of these parts that people have said are all over and they will construct a debris field. they will actually map out where they pick up the various parts, and they will do their best to get them all. surprisingly, you know, when you work accident investigations and you go in later to do the private part for th

cnn transportation analyst and former inspector general for the department of transportation, mary schiavo. mary, good to see you this morning. so, i mean, it's stunning and shocking to see this this massive fireball light up the sky there in this busy business district. as jason carroll described. so it happened shortly after takeoff. and it the plane made a sharp dive. i mean, what do you make of what you're seeing and what could potentially have caused this? >> well, that sharp dive is very dramatic. and as you can see in that video, it is almost coming straight down. but the plane does do a slight roll on its way down. you know, in other you know, i can't say what happened here, but in other accidents i've worked where they had a a loss of control and that's a total loss of control situation. you know, aircraft have lost part of the tail. for example, the rudder, part of the rudder, the horizontal stabilizer, key control surfaces where they are unable to control the plane. and then in that case often it will roll and dive. also this looks like a very, um, you know, a very complete stal

let's bring in cnn transportation analyst mary schiavo. mary, based on the footage and what we know so far, have you been able to draw any conclusions about what could have happened here? >> well, yes, the footage and then also the air traffic control communications and the weather alerts. uh, meteorological, uh, warnings that are specific to the airport. and so the plane was coming in. they did have warnings that the winds were, uh, 23 to 37 knots, which is pretty tough on a canadair regional jet 900. um, then they had cross wind warnings of maybe 30 to 40 knots, which, depending upon the conditions at the airport, can exceed actually the recommended performance for the canadair regional jet. they were coming down. uh, there was some variation according to publicly available radar in the ground speed and the sink rate. so that means they were getting gusts of wind as they were coming down, and they smacked down pretty hard. according to the eyewitness or the ear witness reports, and those people on the plane right at the end of the thresho

mary schiavo, thank you so much for speaking with us. >> thank you. >> all right. we have breaking news right now in gaza city. we're waiting for hamas to release an israeli american man. he has been held hostage since the october 7th attacks. we're looking at live pictures right now of what's taking place in gaza city. we see the red cross there. they're expected to take signal from hamas and take him to israeli officials now. a short time ago, hamas handed two other hostages to the red cross. israel says calderon and the other released hostage, yarden bibas, are now back in israel. so as we look at these live pictures of what we're expecting momentarily to be the release of keith siegel. i want to go now to cnn correspondent jomana karadsheh, who's watching from amman, jordan. again, the contrast with this scene that we're seeing right now compared to what we saw thursday, is absolutely striking. take us through what you're seeing. >> well, as you mentioned there, kim, what we're seeing now appears to be a preparations for the imminent handover of american israel

. >> okay, we go live now to cnn transportation analyst mary schiavo in washington. the former inspector general of the u.s. department of transportation. so we are speaking to the right woman to take a real analysis. look at this video and try to figure some things out. of course, the ntsb will be on the ground doing an extensive investigation. mary, thank you for joining us. when you saw those videos of the plane going down, what stood out to you? >> well, the first thing that i mean, it's just alarming and shocking, but the plane coming down was coming down literally straight down, almost a vertical descent. i think it was 11,000ft in a minute. and it's, you know, that's that was the rate and it wasn't that high in the sky, but that was the rate of descent. that is an unbelievably fast descent. it is, to use an old saying, literally dropping like a rock. and that means that that plane was totally uncontrollable and totally out of control. the problem is going to be for the investigators is to figure out why. because, as the other pictures show, there is very littl

thank you. >> thank you guys. >> have a good night. >> back with me, billy nolan, maria mary schiavo. excuse me. seeing bodies on the ground. they've described, um, unspeakable. they described it as being engraved in their minds as well. the timing of this, billy, this was 40s into takeoff. they had not even reached, what, 1600 feet? just give a reference point for people. you've got the sears tower, about 1700 feet. the empire state building, about 1400. it's not even at a level where people would clear those buildings. what does this indicate to you? >> well, when i think about it, having been a training captain in a past life, during my airline career, um, takeoff is one of the most critical phases of flight, right? and so it's one that pilots are trained to handle. uh, you know, it would be. i wouldn't want to speculate in this particular case. right. so we will see once the ntsb arrives, along with the faa and others, uh, to be able to get the flight data recorder and we'll get a good sense of what actually happened. did they lose power? um, this is indicative to me of a loss of

mary schiavo, for us this morning. thank you, mary, really appreciate it. thank you. all right. coming up here on cnn this morning, thousands of fbi agents ordered by the justice department to answer questions about their role in the january 6th investigations. plus, beyonce winning big last night at the grammys. >> this ain't texas. >> ain't no. >> hold on. >> hey lay your. cards down i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. >> those who. >> tried me felt more. >> energy in just two weeks. >> here, i'll take that. >> ensure. max protein, 30g. >> protein. one gram of sugar. >> and a. >> protein blend to feed muscles up to seven hours. >> so i got you a little. >> something. warming for him, tingling for her. >> should we. >> experience the thrill of bringing them together? >> say more. >> than i love you. say i want you with me, yours and mine. >> climb. inspector has five doctor lawyers, the most of any law firm in america. and maybe that's why the new york times calls klein inspector a powerhouse law firm. so if wrongful conduct caused a catastrophic injury or deat

. >> cnn transportation analyst and former transportation department inspector general mary schiavo is here with us now. mary, i do want to play that video again. this new video of the plane crashing we see on approach. to the untrained eye, it looks pretty normal. but we can see here that very hard landing that those passengers described it quickly turning over on its side, the wings coming off as it rolls onto its back, and a lot of smoke. tell us what you are seeing there. >> are you seeing this? >> well, i'm seeing what you're seeing, but it does. >> provide a. >> lot of clues. >> and i'm also seeing out of the. >> corner of that. >> shot a lot. >> of blowing snow. >> so the. >> aircraft was coming in. >> very fast. >> faster than recommended. >> according to. >> some other reports that we've seen. and it's coming in. >> you know, at. >> such a speed. >> and at such an. >> angle that. >> well, in. >> flight, as we call it, kind of pancaking, you literally just smack down on the runway. whereas if you come in. >> you know, with a regular controlled descent. >> the the. >> back wheel

let me bring in now cnn analyst peter goelz, former ntsb managing director, and mary schiavo, former department of transportation inspector general. mary, i want to talk to you first. you heard the survivor of the crash say the plane hit very hard as it landed. it skidded on its side, then flipped over. what kind of clues does that give you as to the potential? and i know we are a long way off from getting a preliminary cause, but a potential cause of this accident. >> well, and there are lots of clues already. i mean, starting with the air traffic control. the air traffic control gave the weather. there was also weather and winds given before. and they did give some warnings of the strength of the winds. then the air traffic control said something that seems somewhat odd to me. it says, you know, beware of a bump prior flight. did that mean the prior flight reported that it was very bumpy, or were they concerned about any kind of wake turbulence? and then when they hit on the end of the runway, i mean, they were right at the end of the runway, not a ways down. that suggests that they

and mary schiavo, former inspector general at the u.s. department of transportation. ary, you've seen this. we just obtained this video, and it shows the inside of the plane as passengers were hanging upside down from their seats. talk us through the dangers of this situation in these first moments after the crash. >> well, there are many. >> dangers. >> and not. >> the least of. which are. >> probably the. >> ones. >> we don't see. >> one problem. >> with seat belts., and there's one. good thing is. >> everybody does. >> seem to be hanging. >> so they followed. >> the captain and the flight attendants rules. the flight attendants went through the cabin probably twice to make sure everybody's belt was fastened. but for small people, very thin people, little children, often they fall from the belts. and so we didn't hear a lot of that. there still may be some of that we don't know about, but that's what's supposed to happen. they're supposed to be secured in those belts. but the problem is getting down. and that's when a lot of head injuries happen. if they just release

mary schiavo, cnn aviation analyst, former inspector general at the department of transportation. the black box from the helicopter. mary, what do you think the key data from that will be? >> yeah, a. >> hugely important development. so the black box from the helicopter will have both. >> as in commercial planes. >> they're separate. but the black box from the helicopter will both have verbal communications like a cockpit voice recorder and flight data information. and most particularly it will have on the flight data side, it will have altitude, engine settings, positional settings. what was it? where was it headed, what's the pitch, et cetera. and what's the responsiveness of various parameters of that helicopter? an incredibly important development for the ntsb. >> and when we're talking about altitude, one of the things that i think is most mysterious and needs to be evaluated right now is the altitude of these two aircrafts. number one, the black box from the plane found it to be at about 300, 325ft. a reading from the tower. the tower said that the helicopter was at 200ft. th

let's bring in mary schiavo, cnn transportation analyst and former inspector general for the department of transportation. mary, always good to see you. these these crashes certainly have, especially the one in washington, d.c., have really rattled people. is it is it any less safe to fly than it was years ago? should people be worried? >> well, it depends. >> how many years ago we're talking. >> if we're. >> talking the last 20 years. yes. >> any major accident. dramatically affects the. >> safety statistics. and just one accident of 67 people. would probably. >> you. >> know. increase the accident. >> rates by, you know, 4 to. >> 10. >> ten times. >> because we have gone. >> so long without a major. accident that any one accident. >> really skews. >> the statistics. >> so statistically. >> yes. >> we are less safe. >> but of course. >> what can happen. >> is the. >> investigation and the. >> recommendations. what to do to turn this around can make all the difference. >> in the world. >> so yes. >> we are a statistically. >> in a lull right. >> now for us. >> aviation safety. >> but th

. >> and david, we're joined also by mary schiavo, who is cnn transportation analyst. mary, tell us what you're seeing. we should also note, for folks who are unaware, this is canada's busiest airport, isn't it? >> right. >> it is toronto pearson. >> and i've worked some other accidents there. some other cases. and in in prior. and i'm not saying what happened here, but in prior accidents that i've worked on where the plane has gone upside down, just as david said, usually it meant they have left the runway. sometimes they hit an embankment, and the embankment then causes it to be unstable. there was a very famous one where it went upside down in san francisco. oh boy, almost a decade ago. and it hit the seawall coming in and cartwheeled. same thing in sioux city, iowa. it it cartwheeled upon landing or not? i haven't even had time to check all the weather yet. if there was a tremendous cross wind gust, and that this is a big if. but. and you can tell this from the weather radar, if there was some weather at the very last minute with gusting combination with the gear pr

mary schiavo is also joining us, former inspector general of the department of transportation. mary, you hear danny and pete, who are both so familiar with this airport. pete has flown into it as a pilot. the airport that this small plane was near, small plane airport, single engine aircraft. you just heard pete mentioned two casualties on board. we don't know about casualties on the ground. um, you just don't know. you see these fires raging? you know, it's a crowded area, but we just don't know what we don't know right now. nonetheless, it is pretty stunning to see these images. and as you can see right now that common foods. right. it's just to give the point, this is a busy commercial area. >> it is. and it's also a reminder, you know, we've been talking about for the last two days that commercial aviation passenger service, aviation had reached a very safe level, probably the safest, you know, the last, you know, ten, 15 years is very safe. but but while all that is true, general aviation, on demand, aviation, there are still many accidents, many casualties every year, many

the national association of air traffic controllers, nick daniels and cnn transportation analyst mary schiavo. mary, also the former former inspector general at the department of transportation. it is great to have both of you here with us. nick, i want to start first with you. we have seen these two incredibly tragic accidents. within 48 hours. walk people through. there's a lot of attention on air traffic controllers now. walk people through what they're. how are they? what role do they play in helping prevent incidents? obviously the one in philadelphia very different, but especially with the one in d.c. but what what are air traffic controllers doing to prevent incidents like this? what is their job? >> well, thanks. >> jessica, for having us. >> first of. >> all, it's very sad. >> it's under these conditions, the. >> controllers around. >> the country are devastated. the aviation community devastated to. >> deal with this. but when. >> aircraft go airborne, they're usually talking to an air traffic controller. >> we are responsible for every passenger on every plane and. ensuring their s

aviation accident attorney and pilot mary schiavo, a former inspector general of the u.s.ent of transportation, which oversees the federal aviation administration, explains it this way. >> this plane was coming extremely fast, or, as they like to say in the biz, high, and it landed very close to the end of the runway. it came in very fast, and it just pancaked down on that runway. >> much of the fire came from the wing. >> the commercial aircraft or wet wings, that's you know, that's where the fuel is. that's where the fuel is kept. >> many modern aircraft. >> professor michael mccormick, who teaches at embry-riddle aeronautical university in florida, says as the wing broke off the jet, which then rolled over, the wing did what it was designed to do. >> if the forces on the wings are enough to break the wing off because it's frangible, then that fuel source will actually not be a part of the fuselage. and that way you won't have the fuel in and around the fuselage and then cause additional risk to the passengers. >> in extreme circumstances. wing and tail structures are de

mary schiavo, our transportation analyst and former inspector general of the u.s. department of transportation is here with us. doctor hassan shideh shahidi is the president and ceo of flight safety foundation. thank you both for being here. mary. i want to start first with you. um, you sat through and listened to all of that. brian noting the information about that slight increase in pitch, what that might have meant. walk us through what you heard. right. well, that. slight indication in. pitch is that the pilots pulled back. they pulled the plane to. >> an increase., and an increase in pitch means they're putting the nose up towards the sky and trying to climb. >> but it. >> came literally. >> within, you know. >> a second. >> at the time of the impact. so that tells us. that they did not see the helicopter until just, you know, a second at impact. but they had that one second to try to pull up, which is not i mean. >> a. >> crash couldn't climb out of there. it's that fast, right? i mean, a military fighter jet couldn't climb that fast. and the other. >> thing.

aviation accident attorney and pilot mary schiavo, a former inspector general of the u.s. department of transportation, which oversees the federal aviation administration, explains it this way. >> this plane was coming extremely fast, or, as they like to say in the biz, hot. and it landed very close to the end of the runway. it came in very fast, and it just pancaked down on that runway. >> much of the fire came from the wing. >> of the commercial aircraft or wet wings. that's, you know, that's where the fuel is. that's where the fuel is kept. >> many modern aircraft. >> professor michael mccormick, who teaches at embry-riddle aeronautical university in florida, says as the wing broke off the jet, which then rolled over, the wing did what it was designed to do. >> if the forces on the wings are enough to break the wing off because it's frangible, then that fuel source will actually not be a part of the fuselage. and that way you won't have the fuel in and around the fuselage and then cause additional risk to the passengers. >> in extreme circumstances. wing and tail struct

aviation accident attorney and pilot mary schiavo, a former inspector general of the u.s.hich oversees the federal aviation administration, explains it this way. >> this plane was coming extremely fast, or, as they like to say in the biz, hot. and it landed very close to the end of the runway. it came in very fast, and it just pancaked down on that runway. >> much of the fire came from the wing. >> the commercial aircraft are wet wings. that's, you know, that's where the fuel is. that's where the fuel is kept. >> many modern aircraft. >> professor michael mccormick, who teaches at embry-riddle aeronautical university in florida, says as the wing broke off the jet, which then rolled over, the wing did what it was designed to do. >> if the forces on the wings are enough to break the wing off because it's frangible, then that fuel source will actually not be a part of the fuselage. and that way you won't have the fuel in and around the fuselage and then cause additional risk to the passengers. >> in extreme circumstances. wing and tail structures are designed to separate from

aviation accident attorney and pilot mary schiavo, a former inspector general of the u.s.of transportation, which oversees the federal aviation administration, explains it this way. >> this plane was coming extremely fast, or, as they like to say in the biz, hot. and it landed very close to the end of the runway. it came in very fast, and it just pancaked down on that runway. >> much of the fire came from the wing. >> the commercial aircraft are wet wings. that's, you know, that's where the fuel is. that's where the fuel is kept. >> many modern aircraft. >> professor michael mccormick, who teaches at embry-riddle aeronautical university in florida, says as the wing broke off the jet, which then rolled over, the wing did what it was designed to do. >> if the forces on the wings are enough to break the wing off because it's frangible, then that fuel source will actually not be a part of the fuselage. and that way you won't have the fuel in and around the fuselage and then cause additional risk to the passengers. >> in extreme circumstances. wing and tail structures are desig

aviation accident attorney and pilot mary schiavo, a former inspector general of the u.s. department of transportation, which oversees the federal aviation administration, explains it this way. >> this plane was coming extremely fast, or, as they like to say in the biz, high, and it landed very close to the end of the runway. it came in very fast, and it just pancaked down on that runway. >> much of the fire came from the wing. >> of the aircraft are wet wings. that's, you know, that's where the fuel is. that's where the fuel is kept. >> many modern aircraft. >> professor michael mccormick, who teaches at embry-riddle aeronautical university in florida, says as the wing broke off the jet, which then rolled over, the wing did what it was designed to do. >> if the forces on the wings are enough to break the wing off because it's frangible, then that fuel source will actually not be a part of the fuselage. and that way you won't have the fuel in and around the fuselage and then cause additional risk to the passengers. >> in extreme circumstances. wing and tail structures are

we have mary schiavo, former inspector general at the u.s. department of transportation. and david soucie is a former faa safety inspector with us. i do want to draw our attention to the fact, mary, and correct me if i'm wrong here, because we were just catching some of the details there at the top. it sounds like they're saying there were no critical injuries. we had believed that there were in this case earlier, but it's sounding better than we could have hoped. it sounds like. what do you think? >> yeah, that's what it sounds like. i mean, the earlier reports that we had gotten that that there were, i think, 18 injuries and several critical, including a child who was the worst injured. but this is certainly good news. i mean, i worry very much about the children because small people can slide out of that safety belt. and of course, we don't know if this was a baby, a child under two that was being held in the arms of a of a parent or caregiver. so this is indeed good news. and the passenger that we just heard from also gave some some very useful news about how the plane

cnn aviation analyst mary schiavo is also here with us. and, mary, it's great to to have you. you heard pete there kind of laying out what it could have been that gone went wrong here from your initial assessment. what are you looking at in terms of how this plane ended up upside down and on fire on this runway? >> well, pete hit the main points right on as usual. so we had a conflict on the wind. and i'm glad he mentioned the fire chief said, oh, no, it was calm and clear. well, we have meteorological airdrome reports. they're called stars. and it said the wind was 28 to 35 knots. air traffic control reported 23 to 37 and a 30 to 40 degree cross wind. as pete mentioned. so what i'm going to look at and they have this data. it's on the cockpit. it's on the flight data recorder. and it's also on radar tapes. i mean, i could actually access on publicly available sites. you're going to look at the role. how was the plane rolling back and forth like this. you're going to look at the vertical speed. because if you're hitting all kinds of gusts, your vertical speed as you bounce up

back with us is mary schiavo, also chief ramsey and pete muntean. um, mary, what happens now? i mean, obviously police on the ground, firefighters on the ground putting out flames, trying to find victims, trying to find anybody injured that they can transport to, to hospitals. and in terms of the actual investigation of the aircraft that that's already underway, they're going to try to get there as quickly as possible. >> they're going to try to get there as quickly as possible. they're undoubtedly gathering records, fueling records. they will be gathering records on any maintenance on the plane. all the other stops of the plane. they are gathering those records, but they won't be able to get on site until the firefighters and now. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> even as we are still searching for answers tonight about the deadly plane crash over the potomac in northern virginia, we start with breaking news. this hour of a medevac jet with a child on board crashing near the roosevelt mall in northeast philadelphia. the moment was caught on a ring doorbell camera. i do want to

and cnn transportation analyst, former inspector general for the department of transportation, mary schiavo. thank you so much for getting up this morning for us. miles, what are what are your questions this morning about this? >> well, i have a series. >> of them, kate, as i look at the video of this aircraft as. it landed. it appears it it. >> didn't flare. >> this is what happens as you get closer to the ground and the. >> pilots pull. >> back on the wheel or the yoke to slow down the rate of descent, that aircraft would be descending at about 7 or 800ft per minute. and as you get closer to the ground, anybody who. flown up and say pull back ever so slightly to reduce that rate of descent to make for a smooth landing that appeared not to happen here. now. why was that? was there some sort of what we call wind. >> shear. >> which is a sudden change, an abrupt change in the wind speed, which could have dramatically reduced the. was there some other factor? but even. >> even with. >> that. >> it's extraordinary to see the collapse of that landing gear. that must have indicated a lot of impa

former inspector general at the department of transportation mary schiavo, talking earlier today aboutve happened. listen to this. they were getting gusts of wind as they were. coming down, and they smacked down pretty hard. according to the eye. witness or the ear witness reports, and those people on the plane right at the end of the threshold of the runway. and at that point, what looks like might have happened from very grainy videotape from other cameras is the landing gear. the rear gear might have snapped off at that point, along with the right wing, which with the left wing still on the plane, lifts the plane, causing a plane to roll. and tonight we're hearing a new account from a passenger who describes just how harrowing the crash was. >> you could see. >> kind of row by row or area by area. people were checking one another out, making decisions about whether we would help one another with their straps, or if by doing that, would they be landing on somebody else. and then we looked over and the windows were just there was just liquid pouring over the, the, you know, the small

. >> an earlier cnn's anderson cooper spoke with mary schiavo, a former inspector general at the u.s. transportation department, and she sent video similar to the ones we've been seeing. they speak volumes about the incident. >> this is a. >> very complicated situation right now. >> right. and i think the biggest clue came in that video footage that we've seen where the plane came literally straight down out of the sky. there would be no way to control that plane descending totally out of loss of control. and it had a slight spin on it. and that would indicate. >> this is the video that you're talking about. >> yes, that is a plane. >> totally. it's going straight. straight down, straight down. >> they could not have maintained any control. they would have had no ability to direct it away from people, from traffic, or even attempted emergency landing on a on a road. there's just no way that is a plane completely out of control. >> i just want to play that ring camera again with just the sound. when us not talking over it so our viewers can hear those who are just joining right. have y

. >> mary schiavo, have you ever seen a plane upside down on the runway like this? what do you think may have happened? >> well, not exactly like this, but similar. and as peter said, in those cases, in those other accidents, one was asiana in san francisco, one was a united airlines in sioux city, and then a couple smaller planes. what happened is they came in on asiana, they clipped the seawall, and then they didn't come in straight and level. and one wingtip hit the runway. and then the plane cartwheeled same thing in sioux city. they they had a gust of wind right as they came in. it was a long explanation leading up to that. but the wingtip hit and then they flipped. and then in some other accidents, that was the same thing. and others, it's where they have exited the runway and encountered something such as an embankment or other equipment that then caused them to become inverted. but in a scene like this, it is where a wingtip has hit. in many cases, it breaks the wing off, the wingtip is hit, and the plane rolls. um, and fortunately here no fire in those othe