all right let's talk about that i'm joined tonight by professor mary ziegler she's a legal historian and a professor of law at florida state university professor it's good to have you back on the date this week president trump he could be impeached again or he could be on his way out saying stukas vice president and the 25th amendment what do you say it's going to be impeachment isn't it. yeah i think you teach and it's much more likely a place president senses me pretty clear that he doesn't want to interrupt the 25th amendment and i think there's there's been a kind of balancing act here between republicans who i think understand its threat to democracy that's at issue here and understands her ways trying to spin a threat to their personal safety that's especially true but who also want to redeem some kind of loyalty or it's toleration on the part of transporters of the 25th amendment option to put responsibility for child sex it squarely on tests shoulders and you might not want that well i mean why not the faster route here why not invoke the 25th amendment and strip trump of his

well let's pick this off with mary ziegler who is a legal historian and professor of law at florida state university welcome to b.w. that call lasted about an hour as far as you can tell has president trump done anything illegal in trying to pressure brad ruffins brother in this way are you believe yes there are i think 4 laws to little bones federal and state that trump are hugely violated whether a prosecutor can prove that beyond exclusion of any reasonable doubt is a different question simply because laws require that trump intended to invalidate the election knowing that he would be overturning the democratic result rather than buying into the conspiracy theories he's been trafficking on u.s. airwaves but i certainly think there's a pretty strong case to be need that president from violated federal laws and charges state law in trying to overturn the election in this way and so if that case was made what sort of consequences would he face. well these are for the most part these are felony statutes and they would involve prison time of course how much prison time would depend in part

adjourned 2 now i am tomorrow all right let's talk about that i'm joined tonight by professor mary ziegler she's a legal historian and a professor of law at florida state university professor it's good to have you back on the day this week president trump he could be impeached again or he could be on his way out thanks to his vice president and the 25th amendment what do you say it's going to be impeachment isn't. yeah i think you kitchen is much more likely a place president senses me pretty clear that he doesn't want to in tokyo 25th amendment and i think there's there's been a kind of balancing act here between republicans who i think understand its threat to democracy that's at issue here and understands who was trying to spin a threat to their personal safety that's especially true but who also want to redeem some kind of loyalty or at least toleration on the part of trump supporters and the 25th amendment option to put responsibility for chumps exit squarely on tests shoulders and might not want well i mean why not the faster route here why not invoke the 25th amendment in strip trum

phil: let's pick this up with mary ziegler, a legal historian and professor of law at florida state university. welcome to dw. the call lasted about an hour. as far as you can tell, has president trump done anything illegal in trying to pressure brad raffensperger in this way? mary: arguably yes. i think there are four laws, total, both federal and state that trump arguably violated. whether a prosecutor could prove that beyond the exclusion of any reasonable doubt is a different question because some of the laws require that trump intended to invalidate the election, knowing that he would be overturning a democratic result rather than buying into some of the conspiracy three c has been trafficking on us airways. i certainly think there is a strong case to be made that president trump violated both federal law and georgia state law in trying to overturn the election in this way. phil: if that case was made, what sort of consequences when he face? mary: these are, for the most part, federally statutes -- federal statutes. they would involve prison time and that would depend on what a jury would

now mary ziegler is a professor of law at florida state university and she joins us now mary 1st of all just give us your take on what's been happening in washington today it's really on thinkable i missed the story even like me you know american history this is sort of an unfashionable sickening feeling for preaching age for most of us watching this i think if anything positive could come out of it it's just extend to which what from history wrought in the united states and i think. to some republicans in ways that it might not have helped things are. we've seen every lead a division in in america recent how can this conveyed this division be can this divide be bridged. i think so i think a lot of the divide in the united states is driven by their people are getting their information people have been consuming for example fox news and other outlets that at times have been broadcasting the president's speeches claims about election fraud and these are viewers who are not in contact with people or have really any interest in or access to other information so i think hopefully more people

it can happen anywhere professor mary ziegler legal historian a professor of law at florida state university professor as always we appreciate your time in your insights tonight thank you. but we haven't heard much from the outgoing u.s. presidents in the past few days have his accounts on social media platforms especially twitter and facebook they've been suspended permanently trunk's reaction he calls the site's radical left wing propaganda tools to limit free speech but today the president found a very unexpected ally of sorts right here in german chancellor angela merkel says that the suspension of trump's accounts is problematic here's merkel's spokesman stephens i to school of the basic right to freedom of speech is a fundamental importance it is possible to infringe on that right but only in accordance with the law and within the framework defined by the legislature not by the management of social media platforms on the dot aspect the chancellor considers it problematic that the accounts of the us president have now been permanently blocked. all right i want to bring in now matthew fe

mr president determines that you have is the data you have this woke let's pick this off with mary ziegler who's a legal historian professor of law at florida state university welcome to b.w. that call lasted about an hour as far as you can tell has president trump done anything illegal and trying to pressure brad ruffins better in this way are usually yes there are i think sure laws total been several states that trump are hugely violated whether a prosecutor could prove that beyond expression of any reasonable doubt is a different question simply because the laws require that trump intended to invalidate the election knowing that he would be overturning the democratic result rather than buying into the conspiracy theories he's been trafficking on us airwaves but i certainly think there's a pretty strong case to be meet that president from violated federal laws and charges state law in trying to overturn the election in this way and so if that case was made what sort of consequences would he face well these are for the most part these are felony statutes so they would invoke prison time o

it can happen anywhere professor mary ziegler legal story and professor of law at florida state university professor as always we appreciate your time in your insights tonight thank you. but we haven't heard much from the outgoing u.s. presidents in the past few days have his accounts on social media platforms especially twitter and facebook they've been suspended permanently trunk's reaction he calls the site's radical left wing propaganda tools to limit free speech today the president found a very unexpected ally of sorts right here in germany chancellor angela merkel says that the suspension of trump's accounts is problematic here's merkel's spokesman stephens i to school of the basic right to freedom of speech is a fundamental importance it is possible to infringe on that right but only in accordance with the law and within the framework defined by the legislature not by the management of social media platforms on the dot aspect the chancellor considers it problematic that the accounts of the u.s. president have now been permanently blocked. or i don't want to bring in now matthew feen