>> i want to bring in mary ziegler from the university of carolina. and also -- welcome back.e four female justices are the ones that pushed back hardest on this ban. that is still not enough for a majority. from what you observed, how do you expect the justices to rule? >> i think idaho is going to win. john robertson and brett kavanaugh also asked some challenging questions. maybe whenever moses up for grabs, but we know that the supreme court let idaho's law go into effect back in january, which signals at least at the time, the court was prepared to side with idaho. there is nothing eye-opening in the oral argument that convinces me they changed their minds, that they're going to win this case. what is interesting is how idaho will win this case. there was not really a cohesive theory that the other conservative justices had settled on. i think the substance of the opinion, how big they are going to go, i think we may need to wait until june to find out. >> okay, let's get into one of the major points for the conservative justices with that concept of fetal personhood. dep

joining us now, nbc news who's correspondent, monica alba, and author of "dollars for life," mary zieglerm arizona voters, women, who are talking about this ruling. let's listen. >> i can't imagine women who are going to be in situations and can't get the care they need. >> i'm 69, so we got a lot of rights during my lifetime. the government tried to step in and change things too. the 1800s is on the surface ridiculous, but it's very hurtful to a lot of people. >> yeah, i mean, the state wasn't a state back then, and there was a grand total in the population of 9,000 people at best, potentially just 6,000 people. monica, the white house is obviously using abortion as a major campaign issue. what are they saying about this? >> reporter: exactly, katy. they view abortion as the issue that will be the most mobilizing and the most motivating for voters in november, and that's because of what they've seen from special elections, special ballot measures, the 2022 midterm elections, and you see the reaction to something like what happened on tuesday with the civil war era ruling, the biden campa

mary ziegler, dahlia lithwick, thank you very much for joining us. >>> lawmakers are voting again on whether to repeal the civil war era abortion ban. we are going to go live to arizona with the state senator next to get an update. >>> plus, in less than 24 hours, the supreme court will hear oral arguments on donald trump's claims of absolute immunity. what will the justices ask and what will that tell us about which way the court will lean on the issue of january 6th? >>> also, protests at universities across the country over the war between israel and hamas. we'll take you to one of them. don't go anywhere. don't go anyw. oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ in theaters now. (♪♪) i'm getting vaccinated with pfizer's pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine.

back then a risk to a woman's life excluded excessive vomiting according to mary ziegler, citing leslieuld be life-threatening to be sure. but physicians were left with real discretion about when a patient's life was at risk. unlike today. joining us now, arizona state senator anna hernandez. thank you very much for joining us and i appreciate your patient as we were following the breaking news in the senate in washington. let me ask you about what is happening in arizona today. state house republicans have blocked the attempt, and this is going to a senate -- what going to happen? you tell me. >> thank you so much for having me. for the third time the house republicans have blocked representative's bill that is a repeal on the abortion ban to be brought to a vote. so what that means is that i'm ready and the senate democrats are ready to put forward a motion to make this path happen for a clean repeal on that abortion ban. >> and what do you expect to happen. >> and that is -- you know, i expect any republican colleagues to keep to their word and especially for the members that have be

authors of dollars for life, the anti-abortion movement in the fall of the republican establishment, mary zieglerod to have you. so the effort to overturn roe v. wade, to decrease support of it among the american electorate took decades. it was a concerted conservative effort to convince people that it was morally wrong. how would that look for ivf? >> i think there's a similar idea that there would be a death of a thousand cuts beginning with evangelical religious leaders, beginning at the level of local churches kind of moving from their state legislatures, again, movement leaders in the antiabortion movement recognizing that voters just aren't there yet, that congress just isn't there yet. and so starting with these smaller wins is the plan with the hope of, then, building to something larger. setting the precedent that it's okay to say you don't support ivf. it's okay to say ivf is immoral. that kind of strategy that anti-abortion leaders called incremental that we're seeing reemerge with respect to ivf. in looking at the way things are going right now, the other week i had on the lawyer, eri

i'm joined by mary ziegler, an expert on the law, history, and politics of this

ziegler. she's a professor of law at the university of california davis, mary thanking you so much for being with us. what are your thoughts on the arguments that we've heard thus far? and if there is a ruling, ultimately by the supreme court that protects emtala across the country. the state law that says if hospitals are receiving federal funding, you have to provide a medical emergency medical care in that includes abortions as well. might that re-establish some abortion protections nationwide? what are your thoughts? >> well, i think it's really hard to get a read on what's happening so far because of course we know the supreme court has a conservative supermajority and we've heard almost nothing from any of the conservative justices, right? so i don't know if that's because they're agreeing with their liberal colleagues or if they're just holding their fire and waiting until blizzard, or general elizabeth prelogar is going to take her turn in terms of what would happen if the government is to win in this case, that two is complicated. we had reporting from the associated press just last week