. >> mattie ba. >> trevor: m matiba. what's the first thing you remember? a black man who was an attorney. >> we were not allowed! >> trevor: wow. >> nothing. >> nothing. teaching, policemen for a black man. that's all. it was a wonder even for matiba. >> trevor: for young people, it's hard to understand how scary it was to be a black person living in south africa at the time. everyone was afraid of the police. >> firing squads. they knock at 3:00 a.m. >> trevor: dress up, let's go. >> yeah. >> they were so tall, all of them. >> trevor: when you see white guys like that, do they remind you of the police? >> yeah. >> trevor: that's what you remind my grandmother. i hope you're happy, bringing membermembers of the firing squo my house. some people say because some people don't have jobs and it's tough in south africa it would be better to go back to apartheid. >> no, no thank you. it wouldn't be better. >> trevor: why not? >> oh, no, trevor. >> trevor: do you know what it's like to dig for potatoes p your hands? >> on the farms, no pay. and these people worki

. >> at the end of the day, general jim mattis who won every ba finally hit a hill he could not concur and that was the president of the united states. >> reportedrawr: finrom syria his cabinet after talking to president erdogan. with mattis leaving, who will stand up to the president? critics say the remaining top advisers are mostly yes men. and who would want the defense job now? serving a commander in chief that has a candidate says i know more than the generals. andrea mitchell, nbc news, washington. >>> i'm richard engel. as troops in syria are ordered to leave, tonight several current and former military officials tell nbc news many american commanders are outraged as russia's vladimir putin sees an opening. >> they don't care about bashar al assad. they care about expanding their influence into africa and into the mediterranean. by the way, i think you're doing the wrong thing when vladimir putin says you're doing the right thing. that's dangerous. >> reporter: and some say immoral. for u.s. t's es ctly what many feel they have been told to do. abandoning kurdish forces who fou

ba dana? >> barbara, thanks. and aaron, i want to to ask you about the specifics, the reasons why both mattis and mcgurk resignedinsistence that u.s. troops are going to leave syria. what are you hearing from your diplomatic friends and colleagues in the region and around the world about that decision? >> i think you know the answer to that, dana. there's almost no souls in washington who believe this is anything other than a complete and utter catastrophe. some people are predicting the apocalypse. there's no question that the way in which was handled, no consultations with congress or allies, no conditions, no effort to even negotiate with the turks or russians to determine whether or not the kurds could somehow find a niche in a post-american scenario. but i have to say, on balance, there's a certain reality here. 2,000 american forces and a dozen sfos in syria competing with the russians, the turks, and the irans are not going to be able to accomplish what the administration's inflated goals seem to allow. we're not going to push the iranians out, we can't constrain the russians, and we're not going to be ab