in relation to max baucus, a new poll came out showing that the democrats in montana, quite a small statemely unhappy with baucus on the issue of health care and baucus who said he strongly supports a public option, but has subsequently -- you're seeing a lot of movement there. >> in fact, let's put up a poll, it's from the liberal blog, 34% of montana democrats approve of senator max baucus's actions on health care. 55% disapprove and again, max baucus has been leading the effort to try to negotiate some sort of bipartisan compromise with republicans despite no evidence that the republicans are giving the democrats anything in return. does max baucus does he read into this that he's signaling the democrats in montana if the democrats don't come along, yes the public option will be there and what we try to get through? >> i take a more cynical view, i think he's saying something to local folks that he's not saying to national folks and negotiators, and this is a typical max baucus thing. he says one thing at home and goes back to washington and says something else. the question will be at

all the mentions of max baucus. it's very, very likely it's going to have to be a partisan bill on that senate finance committee, particularly with a lot of things that chuck grassley, the republican from iowa, has said on health care. if it's going to be a partisan bill, president obama needs the support from max baucus, and we saw a lot of cover and a lot of love from that senator. the other takeaway, just the back and forth. randy, then ra pers-- the nra p but also the vilification of the insurance industry. >> mark, great stuff as always. make sure to check out first read first thing every morning. check back often. just logon to firstread.msnbc.com. tamron, what's the name of our facebook page? >> david -- tamron hall and david shuster. >> there we go. >> that would be our names. that does it for tamron hall as my name is. >> and i'm david shuster. "hardball" starts right now. >>> going west to save health care reform. let's play "hardball." >>> good evening. i'm lawrence o'donnell in new york in for chris matt

that's max baucus. it was interested what he was noting, their job is to be like the television show "myth death bust teres. we need to try and refute it. the question is, how directly will the president of the united states refute this information? it's expected that he might be a little more blunt than he has been in the past. now, let's listen in and see what happened. let's go ahead and go back to this. i will be here incase we lose the signal once again. >> i had chemotherapy, two kinds of radiation and five major surgeries. i was lucky enough to survive. i was also lucky to have excellent health insurance through my employer at the time, hewlett-packard. >> i don't know what to say. we are trying our darndest to make sure the signal is straightened out. that's a cancer survivor who was just introduced by max baucus who we believe is going to introduce the president. we are following this thing. it might be the most important town hall meeting that the president has given yet. supposedly, he may be

michael duffy, barack obama is gambling on max baucus' ability to get him a bill that he can sign. how does that look as of today? >> well, you have to imagine, lawrence, that at some point the president and senator baucus did have a conversation about whether they do this in a bipartisan fashion here in the next 30 to 60 days or whether at some point they have to do it just with democrats. i suspect that conversation happened somewhere or is happening now, and that's a decision they don't have to make yet. i think everyone in that committee of two, which you just said was the most important, would like to do it with republicans. it's not clear they will be able to, and it looks like they're probably prepared to go it alone if they have to. >> well, obama must have asked max baucus today what do you make of these things chuck grassley has been saying in the town hall meetings? i think the most important thing grassley said, forget about the death panels reference, but what he said about having kept his finger in the dike, preventing legislation from going forward, and, therefore, al

the president mentioned max baucus eight different times in this town hall. he wanted to talk about max this and max that so that was striking. that was striking because of the role max baucus plays. the other thing is the president seemed to go out of his way to try to debunk some of the myths that the white house says is out there, and so, for example, here is one of them. watch. >> when you start hearing people saying we're trying to get socialized medicine and we're trying to have government bureaucrats meddle in your decisionmaking between you and your doctor, that's just not true. >> now, that was in response to a question about medicare, and he wasn't even asked, tamron, the myth there. >> but, david, we know the objectives for the white house, and they've said it, what they've been fighting for the last couple days are the myths, the misinformation out there. the president has been criticized for not being specific, for not drawing that line in the sand. so quite naturally going in today he probably anticipated not getting any hardline questions. he's

. >> max baucus, our senator, has been locked up in a dark room for months now, trying to come up with money to pay for these programs. >> right. >> we keep getting the bull, that's all we get is bull. you can't tell us how you're going to pay for this. you're saving here. you're saving over there. you will take a little money here, take a little money, if there, but you have no money. the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. max baucus doesn't. >> i'm happy to answer the question. >> thank you. >> look, you are absolutely right that i can't cover another 46 million people for free. >> chuck, what was the -- you talked to the guy who asked that question what was his dissatisfaction with the answer which went on for quite awhile. >> essentially, he doesn't necessarily believe when government says they will save money on a program that there will really be money saved from a program. so, look at the history of government over the last 10, 12 years, maybe you do understand why there might -- some people might think that. they see a lot of h

that is what max baucus is working on. two, insurance companies will be prohibited from denies coverage. a report found that more than 12 million americans were discriminated against because of a preexisting condition. no one holds these companies accountable for these practices, but we will and insurance companies will no longer be able to place an arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you receive in a given year or lifetime and that will help -- 3700 households in montana. we'll place a limit on how much you can be charged for out of pocket expenses as well because no one in america should be broke when they get sick. and -- finally, finally, we'll require insurance companies to cover routine check-ups because that saves money and lives. so that's what health care reform is all about. right now, we've got a system that works better for insurance companies than the american people. we want to change that. now, if you are one of nearly 46 million people who don't have health insurance, you'll finally have quality, afford

appears to me that a lot of liberals are backing off the president, they're frustrated right now. >> max baucusn incredibly dedicated to getting chuck grassley on board with this. chuck grassley would never have supported a public option. thus baucus needed to go in this direction. one thing i'd gently press you on is i think they're putting a lot of this on the president. >> i am. >> the election involves congress, right? he's sort of as clinton was before him and all the presidents who have tried to help reform have been really subject to the whims of the committee chairmen here. i don't think anybody wanted max baucus to retreat in the gang of six but it happened. we're seeing a diminishment of the cut stiff on this. this really is in the hands of congress now. i think everybody's sort of outside of the process. no matter how much power they seemed to have a couple of months ago, has been a bit sidelined by max baucus' ability to sort of do what he wants. >> i have to throw this in. when lyndon johnson was president, he wanted medicare, dammit, he went across to the hill and he made sure tha

max baucus is an interesting guy right now. he is on the hot seat.he is trying to lead the bipartisan group that has the last hope that there will be a deal. a lot of democrats are very unhappy with him. they are afraid he has been making too many concessions to the republicans. they are afraid he has dragged this out and they're ready to have this wrapped up so that they can push forward with perhaps a democrats only bill. gwen: peter -- go ahead. i was going to ask you whether the white house is able to maintain the kind of arms length they said it will on these lobbying issues. >> that's a very good question. the president is meeting in the oval office today with tom dash shal who was the former senate majority leader, someone he wanted to make his secretary of health and human services until a tax flap knocked that nomination out. he is a very smart person when it comes to health care. has written a book about it. at the same time he is working or advising the industry at the same time. multiple entanglements with different players. is he an advi

there's a rumor going around that president obama went to montana to play up to senior senator max baucus the chairman of the very powerful senate finance committee which at the end of the day is going to have a lot more influrns than any other committee. baucus has said no government insurance plan. he wants in exchange some kind of cooperative exchange and that's what the rumor is. is the government insurance plan dead? maybe that's why private insurance companies have done so well in the stock market. >> no, the public option is not dead, larry. i think what you're seeing is max baucus wanted to work with chuck grassley across the aisle to come with the bill. but chuck grassley is off the reservation with this death panel nonsense like jerry boyer. i think where we are is a place we're going to move forward. there will be a bill. i wouldn't bet against this if i were you, larry. what deroy said a moment ago about people coming out, americans coming out by the thousands. well, yeah, they are coming out by the thousands. we had 100 million more people who voted in the last election and t

what do you think max baucus' chances? are you tried. senator dodd tried. senator kennedy tried and they failed. can max baucus bring something to make mike enzi come up with a deal that you guys couldn't come up with? >> it's hard for me to figure out. mike enzi represents a state of 600,000 or 700,000 people. >> he represents a state of 540,000 people. fewer than live on staten island. you represent a state of 11 million. that is more people than all six senators on the finance committee who are behind the closed door right now combined. >> they all represent very small states. not only that, but mike enzi -- mike enzi didn't win the election. >> right. >> the voters said they want something different. let me point out one other thing. i was on the -- we had 11 days of markup. 11 days of considering amendments in the health committee. i've been in the house and senate for 16, 17 years now. and i've never seen a bill, in all this time, that had that much -- that much attention paid to it, that many amendments, that long a period of markup. we accepted 160

it's also the home state of max baucus.ay that the president may be hoping and by ticketing this event on a first come, first serve basis. here's president obama coming out. you can see him holding the hands of one of his daughters and michelle obama and his other daughter is coming down the stairs right now. dressed casually, no tie, which makes sense given they're on vacation. he's about to shake hands -- there, he's shaking hands with max baucus. he just passed the governor of montana there. here's john tester, the recently elected senator who was elected in 2006. and the president is hoping to get challenged a little bit directly so he can knock down some of what he thinks are myths about health care reform. they ticketed the event to try to make that happen, giving out two tickets to everybody who showed up, so there could be some mystery guests show up. this is really a critical moment for barack obama in health care reform. this is his first year to try to get this. we have seen presidents' political capital diminish

max baucus said social security could face default within two years. varney promptly agreed. spencer baucus said it. spencer bachus, not democratic senator max baucus of montana. oh, and congressman bachus later admitted he made a mistake and meant to say deficit. social security could face a deficit within two years. first chance at default would be 2037 so fox got the name wrong and branch of government wrong and political party wrong and the quote and fact wrong. there's been no correction. >>> dateline washington, number two best ex-politician oopsie. tom delay now affiliated with "dancing with the stars" on with chris, never mind for a moment he turned into one of those invasion of the body snatchers, conspiracy theory birther things listen for the blooper. >> will you do me a favor. ask the president to show me his gift certificate? i mean his girth certificate? his birth certificate. >> that's how obama can reform health care. send everybody a gift certificate. genius. genius, i tell you. and dateline la marque, texas, number one best politician oopsie. senator kay bail

the association itself. >> moyers: yeah, i just read the other day in "the washington post" that max baucus' staff met with a group of lobbyists. two of them had been baucus' former chiefs of staff. >> right. >> moyers: i mean, they left the government. they go to work for the industry. now they're back with an insider status. they get an access, right? >> oh, they do, they do. and these lobbyists' ability to raise money for these folks also is very important as well. lobbyists... many of the big lobbyists contributed a lot of money themselves. one of the lobbyists for one of the big health insurance company is heather podesta, the podesta group, and she's married to tony podesta, who's a brother of john podesta. >> moyers: who used to be the white house chief of staff. >> right. and they're democrats. and my executives wanted to meet with... and when i say "my," the people i used to work for. >> moyers: at cigna. >> yeah, wanted to meet with hillary clinton, when she was still in the senate and still a candidate for president. well, that's hard to do. that's hard to pull off, but she did.

iends on the finance committee, not so mucwith max baucus or the ohers. where es everybody stand and how do everybody balance tese different ides? it's a very complicated issue right now. gwen: it's notso simple to mainta arms length. a qestion fromjames in califoia for you ceci, another nuts and bolts question but we heard referce in our open. he asks will the taxpayer foot the bill for th coverage for the milions of alens in this country? >> absolutely not. everyby has said, very democric leader, the white use, etc., thathis is not about proving health care to illegal immigrants. gwen:here is this comi fro? >> thee has been a few hot button isues that have been introduced into the alth care debate. illegal immigration isne of them, abortion i another, en of life is y a third. i think tere is consously or unconsously an attemptto eject these volatile issues into the debate. it ts people worked out about it that otheise might not be concerned abt it and such stngopponents. wehave seen that interestiny across the boardin every volatile soal issue can name,

is he both friends on the finance committee, not so muh with max baucus or the thers. wherdoes everybody stand a how es everybody balance thse different ideas? it's a very complicated issue right now. gwen: it's not s simple to maintain rms length. a quetion from ames in californiaor you ceci, another nuts and bolts qestionbut we heard referencein our open. asks will the taxpayer foot the bill for the overage for the millis of aliens in this country? >> absolutely not. everybody as said, eery democraticleader, the white hous etc., tha this is not about priding health ce to ilgal immigrants. gwen: whe is this coming from >> there has been a few hot button isues that have en introduced into the heal care debate. illegal immigration is onef them, abortion isanother, end of life is yet third. i think thee is consciously or unconsciouy an attempt o ejt these volile issues into the debate. it getspeople worked out bout t that otherwismight not be concerned about and such strong opponents. have seen tat interestgly across the boar in every volatile cial issue can nme, it's be

and i told max baucus that over a period of three or four months.ublicans. and if i can't negotiate something that gets more than four republicans, i'm not a very good representative of my party. and secondly, we're talking about health care. that's life or death for every american. and we're talking about -- and we're talking about one-sixth of the economy. that ought to be done, as senator baucus has said, in a consensus sort of way where it passes with an overwhelming vote in the united states senate. >> but senator, let me follow up. if you have -- if it's something you believe, i mean, you and senator baucus have been running that finance committee for a long time. you know these issues well. if you think this is a good deal, are you going to -- and overall because of the politics of the situation you can't get more republicans on board, you're going to go ahead and vote against it even if you think it's a good deal? >> well, it isn't a good deal if i can't sell my product to more republicans. >> but i guess the underlying aspect of chuck's que

so if max baucus was in favor of a public option and president obama was in favor of a public option, and a public option survived through three house committees and one senate committee that passed bills on health care reform so far, why is the public option dying now? it's dying because of a collapse of political ambition. the democrats are too scared of their own shadow to use the majority the american people elected them to in november to actually pass something they said they favored. senator baucus has decided to take decision making about health care reform out of the full committee on which democrats have a huge majority and instead he wants it to be decided by a mini committee that he made up that's three senators from each party, as if the american people elected a half and half republican and democratic senate this year. which we did not. we elected a big democratic majority. but then democrats decided to wield that majority by giving the republicans control over what kind of health care reform we get. so we get no public option. we get no public option. no single payor. no

max baucus says he doesn't want to put a bill out that will. but that's the only way you can do that. >> congressman, isn't he right? >> i can't believe that -- that our democracy is so fragile that people have no answer to a very serious problem would just try to create animosity and hatred rather than try to sit down and first find out what is the problem, how costly is it and what does it take in order to stop it. there's no question that almost everyone listening to this show have known some horrible story where someone has lost their home, their job, their -- the -- as a result of not being able to -- being able to cope with the costs of health care. it's getting worse. more and more people are losing health insurance and the people who have it don't have it. we're going to have to pay for it. but it's going to be less in doing something right now than if we just let these things turn over -- >> how are you going to pay for it? you're for a surtax. is that going to work in the senate, congressman? >> first of all, when we start talking abo

max baucus has put forward a solid bill.ee, i think they made a miscalculation giving too much of this to the congress. the president's got to be r something. i thought when he struggled in the press conference the other night he couldn't quite declare definitively, in a sustained way, here's what i'm for and here's what i want to sign. if he does that in the august, you get coverage to the blue dogs. i think we might bring j.c. over, listening to him talk act medicare, because we can address those concerns. >> j.c. watts is your least concern. >> i want to move on to the very difficult subject of race, and it's something that the president has taken on obviously in the past couple weeks. here was the image this week, just a low-key get-together over some beers at the white house on thuray with professor henry louis gates and sergeant crowley going back to the arrest in cambridge, just a couple guys having some beers and about 4,000 photographers. that's how it always is. >> that was the most famous sitdown for a beer in ame

it's the latter part that's been missing. >> do you think the senate compromise that max baucus is tryingand kathleen sebelius hinted at this weekend, might be an alternative. is something that would produce pressure to bring cost down? >> it might solve a political problem, but the real issue is that a public plan doesn't solve any real problems in the american health care system. one flavor of it, which favors to have these plans use medicare payment rates. that's part of our problem. we pay doctors on the volume produced. the other version says let's get something that competes. that begs the question, how to get good competition. we have insnurers who don't face enough competition. >> the other argument that some make is that the public plan would drive because it got subsidy and others, would drive the private insurers out of the business. >> that's a possibility. if you're subsidizing one competitor and not the other, you'll drive the other away. that doesn't solve a problem. what they really need is an approach that puts benefits on the table and pays for them. so far, we've seen a

that is what max baucus is working on. [applause] number two, insurance companies will be prohibited from denying coverage because of your medical history. a recent report found in the past three years more than 12 million americans were discriminated against by insurance companies because of a preexisting condition. no one holds these companies accountable for these practices, but we will. insurance companies will no longer be able to place an arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive any given year for a lifetime, and that will help-- [applause] that will help, that will help 3700 households in montana. we will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses as well because no one in america should be broke when they get sick. [applause] and finally, finally we will require insurance companies to cover routine check-ups and preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies because that saves money and that saves lives. [applause] so, that is what health care reform is all about. righ

he praised max baucus. but there clearly are differences between the president and the senator, who's chairman of the senate finance committee, on the public option. how's that going to play out? how do you see that? >> i don't know what the difference is there. i do know this, that the president talked about the public option. he's supporting the public option. he believes that it's a good thing to have competition. these insurance companies that don't want competition, i thought they believed in capi l capitalism. if they don't want competition, then what are they in the business for? now, a public option would be something that's voluntary. if a person would like to buy themselves into a public option system, they can. nobody's going to hold a gun to your head and tell you you've got to. >> how are montanians responding to all of the rhetoric that's out there about death panels that's being purported by the right wing media and also some republican senators that have been on this stump actually scaring s

max baucus says social security could face default within two years.dreds of dealers dumping the cash for clunkers program. they are not been paid. how does it impact it? >> i do not know how it directly impact social security or cash for clunkers. this is a call to start retreating from the spending. my position would be, he cannot retreat. this administration cannot retreat from what is already in place. you cannot back off from the stimulus program. it is implemented. you cannot back off from the record budget, the $410 billion supplemental spending program. you have to have something to show to the farmers with cap and trade. you cannot back away from the health care reform of $1 trillion over seven years. the unwritten thing in the warren buffett piece was, you have to be careful with health reform. sean: what do you think of economists who think we're about to hit a double dip inflation here? what you think about roubini? he predicted all of this. they call him dr. doom. what do you think of their predictions that this is not sustainable? warren

buttering up the state senior's senior and chairman of the finance committee max baucus who could hold the fate of health reform in his hands. >> first of all, the man who is working tirelessly to make sure that the american people get a fair deal when it comes to health care in america, please give max baucus a big round of applause. >> reporter: in private, top presidential advisers acknowledge the fight has reached a critical stage because the opposition has gained some steam. capitalizing on anger over federal bailouts and debt at many congressional town hall meetings. >> -- the government has these powers to take over health care? >> reporter: by comparison the president's town hall here was pretty tame, though he did get one pointed question that reflected the strong opposition he's facing. >> we keep getting the bull, that's all we get is bull. you can't tell us how you're going to pay for it. the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. >> look, you are absolutely right that i can't cover another 46 million people for free. >> report

then we have someone like max baucus. it seems to me that what is happening is you have to get 218 and the house and 60 in the senate, and it does not change. they have made some small achievements. it took me about 11 minutes to say one thing they have not done is past the washington, d.c. voting rights act which the republican administration said they would veto. it it passed in the senate with only one democrat leaving. that is max baucus. 21 democrats voted for some gun amendments. in 2007 the bill passed with only six democrats leaving the fall. that would be a great legislative achievement to provide for the first time voting representation in the district of columbia for the house of representatives. the public does not realize that the 575,000 people in this city do not have a vote in the house. to be fair, there were 22 republicans who voted for it in 2007. in terms of the general tng, it seems to me they always want to get to conference. they want to move the bill. the house and senate bills will be different. t

that they're working hard to keep to the september 15 deadline for getting the bill done, set by max baucus. they will use video teleconferencing if they have to to get something done through the recess but one of the other republicans in the gang said today, quote, he will not adhere to an artificial deadline." bret. bret: shannon bream live on the hill. the white house leans on the broadcast networks to make room for the president and top defense officials hurdle in in secret to decide what to do in afghanistan. we've all heard about the trouble in the housing industry. the fact is, with all the talk of a national real estate market, your town, your neighborhood, your home, or the home you'd like to buy, are each unique. the national conversation may not apply at all. if you've been worrying about what your property may be worth, or wondering if your dream home may finally be affordable, ask a re/max agent or go to remax.com. nobody sells more real estate than re/max. come on. there for you... ( car starts ) and life's daily miracles. ♪ who's the best? this guy is. ♪ ( clapping ) ♪ to the

sean: max baucus, i misspoke last week. max baucus's numbers among democrats in terms of his handling of health care were very bad. >> there comes a time in every political situation where you are confronted with the one thing you can never predict, which is a politician's propensity to be willing to commit suicide. you cannot predict that. the president who is going to be there for four years is more willing to do that then a senator or congressman. you may find a lot of these guys jumping off very quickly as this moves towards a vote. he will pass something. sean: it may just be face- saving. their own estimates are off by $2 trillion. 25% higher deficit estimate. one of the things we have been predicting, when they first proposed medicare, it was nine times higher than the original projections. how is that going to impact this? >> it will be devastating for him. my wife and i titled are booked "catastrophe " " that was not the stimulus package. that was not the recession. the catastrophe is the debt. what that is going t

then we have someone like max baucus.t seems to me that what is happening is you have to get 218 and the house and 60 in the senate, and it does not change. they have made some small achievements. it took me about 11 minutes to say one thing they have not done is past the washington, d.c. voting rights act which the republican administration said they would veto. it it passed in the senate with only one democrat leaving. that is max baucus. 21 democrats voted for some gun amendments. in 2007 the bill passed with only six democrats leaving the fall. that would be a great legislative achievement to provide for the first time voting representation in the district of columbia for the house of representatives. the public does not realize that the 575,000 people in this city do not have a vote in the house. to be fair, there were 22 republicans who voted for it in 2007. in terms of the general thing, it seems to me they always want to get to conference. they want to move the bill. the house and senate bills will be different. t

max baucus is a central figure in this legislative drama. rick: we want to hear from you if you have received an unsolicited email from the white house. tell us about it. for moron this, we have a couple of great guests. we're also joined by an editor for "the national review." everybody hates chain letters. >> particularly, if they are coming from the white house. rick: what do you make all of this -- what do you make of all of this? what is going on? >> this is really dangerous ground. i am a civil libertarian. liberty is very important. i do not trust the government, whatever you do. when poindexter was doing his proposal, i was up in arms. this notion that they can track people is going to infuriate americans. they should understand, this is dynamite. the faster that to get out there and stop this -- people are going to say, you are after me. it is going to hurt them. rick: first, it was the enemies list, when they were encouraging people to send in misinformation that they were getting and collecting data on those types of female. what

it was really max baucus. town hall meetings appear to be more about the man senator baucus met with today, president, than about the health care he's trying to enact. and addressing constituents, the friendly crowd loving it when the republican congressman joked about the lynchings democrats are receiving at their own events. >> the difference in the town hall meetings and almost got lynched. [ applause ] you're not approving lynchings, because you don't -- but people are really upset at some of this -- and for very good reason they're upset. >> mr. aiken, never assume. largely upset because of 9 misinformation by the republican spin and astroturf groups formed by the health care industry. unlike democrat colleague, congressman aiken did not take questions from his audience. an unruly crowd, the leader of the blue dogs when those congressmen took questions at arkansas children's hospital in little rock, one woman nearly reduced to tears. not because she fears health care will be taken away but she fears her am

max baucus says that he does not want to put a bill out that will.hat is the only way you can do that. >> you are absolutely right that i can't cover another 46 million people for free. you are right. i cannot do that. neil: his answer was that the savings are going to be realized and then limiting deductions on wealthy people will cover the costs. do you believe that? >> i can tell you this. in the united states, we pay twice as much for our health care as all the other industrialized countries. if we're paying twice as much, obviously with some cost containment, we could find some places to save money. that has to be number one in any of these bills. the president is absolutely correct. we do not have to pay more to bring these new people in because we are already paying for those people. if their child gets sick, you are going to bet that they go to the emergency room and somebody pays that $5,000 for that emergency room visit. it was not person who was uninsured. it is the rest of the pool. if we can bring people in and give them some kind of a h

that he was max baucus. now more about the man senator baucus met today, the president than the health care reform the president is trying to enact. in a st. louis town of missouri, the friendly crowd loving it when he talked about the lynching democrats are receiving at their own events. >> the difference of town hall meetings where they almost got lynched. this does not mean i'm approving lynchings. the point is people are really upset at some of his legislation and for very good reason they were upset. >> mr. aiken, never assume. largely upset because of the misinformation they had been fed by the republican spin and astroturf groups born by the health care industry. congressman aiken did not take any questions from his audience. an unruly crowd, ross the leader of the blue dogs when those congressmen took question at, a's children hospital in little rock. one woman nearly reduced to tears because she fears her america has been taken away. >> i am an american citizen. i hate what my america has turned into

leading the bipartisan negotiations, just talked about, the chairman of the finance committee, max baucusthis this past week. he wants to keep going. but by mid-september he will have to make a decision of whether he can keep the republicans on board. he said if republicans aren't there, it could get to the point where sometime after the recess democrats may have to go in a different direction. i hope not. but we have to face facts. facing facts would be going it alone with a democratic bill. as you know, many of your own conservative democrats think that is a bad idea both from a policy standpoint and politically to have one party shepard and use its muscle to move through such a dramatic change to our health care system and our economy because of the role of health care in our economy. >> i can just tell you, john, we need to take the time to get this right. but understand, max baucus has been working tirelessly for almost a year getting ready for this negotiation. for months he's been in a room with the three republicans. these senators are under intense pressure from the senate republ