neil: to the former ambassador to china under president obama max baucus. he is arguing that the chinese are in a lot better shape than the world seems to be thinking. i think ambassador, that is one of the reasons why you don't automatically expect the chinese to willy-nilly bend because they have to, right? >> frankly, i think the trade dispute is hurting both our countries. it is hurting china more than it is the united states however i think the chinese can with stand pain more easily and endure pain more than can americans. given all that, i think there is decent chance we'll have some kind of a trade agreement. it will be moderate. it will be a little bit of window-dressing, both sides can declare victory and we'll go on. they cannot address the deep underlying problems we have with our two countries that is the problem we face this year and next year. neil: ambassador, i know when you were dealing with the chinese, we won quite a few arguments with the wto, did they make good on punishment or reprimands, the wto would mete out? for example, it would