he was at the max planck institute for research on the public goods or something like that and what happened was after the crisis i started wondering what was going on in the financial system and why it created all these problems and was there something to do about it or was it like in earthquake that we had to live through it the perfect storm? i started reading the narrative then the policy proposals. the more i looked, the more disturbed i was. i started talking about academics and there's a whole part there i didn't get into but i didn't like what i heard and i didn't like what i didn't hear. the fact that i wasn't hearing certain things seemed obvious to me and i started asking questions. when i read i came across a lecture that martin hellwig gave about the crisis and that made sense to me. so as i they enter this and started writing i established content -- contact with martin in early 2010. we started exchanging ideas. what he said made sense to me whereas what a lot of other people said did not. it was like i'm a newcomer and come from corporate governance looking into banking sayin