after that is when they got this call from trump and rnc chair ronna mcdaniel urging them not to sign certification. in that phone call, according to the detroit news, trump did apparently say how can anyone sign something when you have more votes than people? his statement was false. it was alluding to some claims that the vote count in detroit was rigged, it was not. and, you know, the emergence of this audio is really important because efforts to prevent certification in michigan, they are all part of special counsel jack smith's case right here in d.c. so this recording, this audio, if it's released, or if jack smith and his team get their hands on it, it really could be part of the case in this election subversion case out of d.c., the federal case, sara? >> and certainly, because there are so many people that are involved in that case, this doesn't just implicate donald trump, has there been a response from ronna mcdaniel, the head of the rnc? >> yeah, head of rnc, also calls michigan home, and, you know, according to the detroit news, mcdaniel said on the call, apparently urgin

>> the call came from mcdaniel. she's from michigan. that's previously been reported there were two calls that night from came from mcdaniel to monica palmer, one of the two republican canvassers. so it appears that the rnc chairwoman kind of facilitated that call, had the president on the call. they were both making arguments against signing the certification. there was a comment made on the call by mcdaniel where she told them if you sign this certification and don't get this audit, she said something to the effect of we will never, ever know what happened in the 2020 election. that was the pressure that was put on them. if you sign this and don't get the audit, we're not going to know what actually happened. >> should note of course the margin of vigtry in michigan for biden was 154,000 votes. craig, do you know why the call came out now? like why you're getting this information now and whether jack smith's team has this reporting as well? >> i can't answer that. i really can't answer neither of those questions. i know that it took s

hattie mcdaniel.auds while mcdaniel may have broken barriers, in collecting her award she was forced to sit at the back of the ballroom during the ceremony, away from her castmates, because she was black. she gave a very dignified speech. i sincerely hope i shall always be a credit to my race and to the motion picture industry. the exhibition also features numerous works from over the decades, including props, posters, and footage of race films, films that had a black cast and were made mostly between 1915 and the 19505 for african american audiences. in many ways, it's a pre—history to what many people think is the start of black cinema in the early 19705. there were these blaxploitation films. i don't know if you rememberthe5e, shaft... what kind of money are we talking about? ..super fly. my pleasure. we wanted to demonstrate to people that there are 80 years of filmmaking that preceded that moment. did it surprise you, as you put the exhibition together, about how much work had been done by black

mcdaniel dijo: si puede ese su casa esta noche, no lo firmÉ, le conseguiremos abogado.n no se sabe si el fiscal especial que acusa a trump en washington por intentar revertir la elecciÓn presidencial ha hablado con el denunciante o ya tiene la grabaciÓn, el abogado dice que el material podrÍa ser usado como evidencia o acusaciones incluso arnal mcdaniel. directo por parte del partido republicano, y de su representante, segÚn rechazÓ la autenticidad del artÍculo, la campaÑa de trump dijo "reacciones de trump fueron tomados en incremento su deber como presidente de los estados unidos de cuidar fielmente las leyes y garantizar la integridad electoral, ronan mandan daniel seÑalÓ "lo que dice pÚblica y repetidamente como mencione mi carta del 21 de noviembre de 2020 se habÍa amplia evidencia que justifica una auditorÍa. >> [habla en inglÉs] por una grabaciÓn telefÓnica es una acusaciÓn telefÓnica, el sectario de su estado, mÁs los votos para que ganara las elecciones presidenciales, podrÍa facilitar aÚn mÁs la formulaciÓn de mÁs cargos pero justamente la decisiÓn de la corte

reportedly on this call was rnc chairman ronna mcdaniel, who also allegedly told those officials notgn the certification in, quote, we will get you attorneys. ronna mcdaniel's response to night, quote, what i said publicly and repeatedly at the time is referenced in my letter on november 21st 2020, is that there was ample evidence that warranted and audits. i am joined now by maggie haberman, senior political correspondent for the new york times and analyst, thank you for being with us. then president on the phone with county canvassers take us back to his mindset at this point in november 2020 that would prompt this extraordinary overturn. >> look, a couple of days early on after election day was when trump seemed to be aware he had lost according to multiple people, and then a short time after that, he dug in on the idea that he did not lost that he would make sure the transfer of power did not take place. this is part of that effort, he started telling people and i reported this previously, that he was not going to leave. why would you leave if you lost an election? so, it is not

ronna mcdaniel has issued a statement about this. she's saying that what i said publicly, repeated at the time in my letter on november 21st 2020, is that there was ample evidence that warranted an audit. she is continuing to press that she believed that the election results should've been looked into using that as her defense for what we are hearing from her on the phone call. >> all, right very interesting. but it does seem like part of a pattern, what we saw, pressure from the president's team at the time. guys, jessica, alina, thank you. we bring in former u.s. attorney, harry litman. harry, all of this sounds reminiscent of -- what do you think about the new reporting? how significant is that for prosecutors? folks like special counsel, jack smith, what do you think? >> i think that is exactly. right it really is a piece with the infamous phone call to raffensperger. one key difference, these two canvassers let us inside and play ball, they came back the next, day tried to rescind the votes. never did sign and then said publicly

amna: have we heard anything from ronna mcdaniel or president trump on the call?no one disputed the contents of the call. a spokesperson for former president trump reiterated the ongoing light, that the election was stolen and thus he had every reason to make a call to election officials to stop that. ronna mcdaniel made a somewhat similar argument, she argued "what i said publicly and repeatedly at the time is there was ample evidence that warranted an audit of that vote. -- that vote." again, no election fraud found in michigan. estate review run by republicans found the same. joe biden won michigan fair and square. amna: in this case, the efforts didn't work, but if there was a similar pressure campaign in our upcoming presidential election, is our election system better prepared to handle it? william: this is an enormous ongoing concern.% last year in michigan, a past allow that said canvassers can only certify a vote based on the vote tally, so michigan seems to have headed this off. that a lot of other states, georgia, north carolina, wisconsin, where simila

the rnc chairman rona mcdaniel was also on the call.nd she said, we will get you attorneys and take care of it. and so what was the context and around the call, and what does it mean today? jess, talk to me about this audio and what it means? >> kate, this is a phone call that reporters from "the detroit news" they have heard it, but they have not released the audio. they have listened to the portions of the call amounting to four minutes but the people who shared it with them do not want it released at least not right now. so the reporter who broke this story said earlier. >> there's a whistle-blower that possesses the audio of these recordings and the timing of the release and the ultimate decision on whether to release these recordings publicly is up to that person. >> yeah, and you know, we previously reported that trum htrump had called these two michigan canvassers and he was actually pressuring them to not sign the certification for joe biden in wayne county which is home to detroit, and the time line played out that the two canv

and whether or not now the implication of ronna mcdaniel matters to the big picture? >> i think that this really helps prosecutors make the case that this was an organized effort. a lot of people say, well, this was just trump, he was being reckless, he didn't really know what he was doing or what he was saying. no, he was pretty clear that this was a strategic, stealthy effort to interfere with election results in a number of states. we have only heard now, or are aware of these reports from georgia and michigan. there were probably many other conversations. so i think like you said at the beginning of the segment, it is clear that there is a pattern here that there was an organized effort and that other people helped donald trump. that it wasn't just him acting alone. >> danielle, let me play for you what the admission secretary of state told my colleague chris hayes last night about how concerned she was over how wayne county could've been the first domino to fall in trump's election subversion plot. >> we knew we were the first domino to fall if we failed to stop

mcdaniel said the call reflects her belief "there was ample evidence that warranted an audit." the call fits a pattern of trump strong-arming state officials to change the 2020 election results, like his call to georgia's secretary of state. >> so look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >>> aaron katersky joining us now, i want to go back to that order from the supreme court declining to fast track a review of trump's immunity, what does this mean for the special counsel's case going forward now? >> reporter: this is a blow to jack smith, the special counsel. he wanted the trial to start as soon as possible, he knew it was an extraordinary ask, trump's lawyers said he was trying to move forward with reckless abandon, tonight trump now says he's looking forward to the appeal, and at this point, whit, a march 4th trial seems loyal unlikely. whit? >> aaron a katersky, thank you. >>> turning now to what's expected to be a record-breaking stretch of holiday travel, the minneapolis-st. paul internatio

in exchange, he and ronna mcdaniel offered legal protection for the canvassers. listen to the reporter who broke the moment describing he heard trump's voice. >> it was an appeal to these canvassers. it was a direct appeal to them. how could you sign this knowing what i am telling you? how could you sign it, the president of the united states told these two county canvassers that they would look terrible if they signed this. >> joining us now michigan secretary of state joscelyn benson, who knows quite a lot about all that transpired in that states around this time. secretary benson, you just put a message out on x talking about this day, that it was called into question whether they would actually certify these votes. what do you make of this new reporting? about the pressure that was happening behind the scenes? >> well, thanks for having me abby. this is extraordinary. i was not aware until craig's report that this recording existed. it is quite extraordinary. we had a gut feeling and have lots of different pieces of evidence to suggest that this was happening

we've also reached out to spokespeople for former president trump and mcdaniel.what have we heard, ken, so far from them, and what can you tell us about this conversation? >> well, jose, they're not denying the substance of the reporting here, and in fact, what the trump campaign is saying is that then president trump at the time was acting as the president of the united states concerned about fraud in the election, but it's not clear that the reporting about what this tape suggests backs that up because what happened here, if you recall is that joe biden won this county by more than 150,000 votes, and there was a pro forma vote by the wayne county board of canvassers to certify those results, and two republicans balked, and they ended up voting for it, but then they were having second thoughts, and this is when -- according to this reporting, donald trump, and ronna mcdaniel called these two holdouts and urged them to stand fast and ronna mcdaniel said they would provide them lawyers. in the end, they caved and it went on and the votes were certified, but had th

"if you go home tonight, do not sign it," the paper reports mcdaniel told the officials.attorneys." trump told them to fight, said it would be terrible if they certified, and said they must not let these people take our country away from us. the call was detailed in the house select committee's january 6th report, but the existence of audio was not previously known. in the report, palmer told investigators she could not recall what exactly trump said or if he raised election issues. palmer has said she was trying to protect the vote. >> make sure every vote is counted, whether it is a republican or a democrat. >> reporter: a trump spokesman said trump's actions were within his duty as president and an attempt to ensure election integrity. in a statement, mcdaniel said that at the time there was ample evidence that warranted an audit. special counsel jack smith has been investigating how trump worked to throw president biden's victory into doubt and sparked chaos in the congressional certification, often by leaning on republicans in key states to declare trump the victor.

everybody is knows -- also on the phone, ronna mcdaniel, the chairwoman of the rnc, she said, do notign it, refer too the certifications, we will get you attorneys, trump adding that is a lie. it is november true then, not true now. i want to be clear, it almost worked. they tried to rescind their votes, but it was too late, that was that. so marshall s. how are they responding to news of this recording. they very significant. it could be used to special counsel jack smith. to in, in jacket smith's words, disenfranchise millions of voters. the trump campaign did put out a responsibility. it's from stephen chung, who said all of president trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as president of the united states and ensure election integrity. it's hard to take that at face valuable she want all she wanted was to check the vote, not throw out the votes. no ones has heard the tape yet, but hopefully one day soon. . >>> thank you very, very much. >> all of with -- let me start with you. that's also at the hard of georgia and federal election. i want to play the clip. listen

the paper reviewed recordings of trump and mcdaniel on phone calls with to local officials just days after the election. nbc has not heard or verify the audio recordings. but it's statements nbc spokespeople for trump and the rnc did not dispute them. this afternoon, michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, so the chief suspect at the election officials were under pressure back in 2020. >> they're recording in the detroit i tyler the recording. it didn't surprise me, the content of which we were well aware that he was trying to pressure these local pointed officials to subvert their own duty, the legal duty under the law. we knew as it was happening, it's really, when you're up against the president of the united states, the purported leader the free world, that we had the truth, the law, the will of the people on our side, it's really harrowing and scary. you don't know ultimately, democracy is fragile, and that -- the more proof and evidence we have as the state shows, the stronger we feel going into 2024. >> the detroit news report also raises questions about what rnc term --

republican national committee chairwoman, ronna mcdaniel, was also reportedly on that call. the detroit news reached out to trump, mcdaniel, and the canvassers, and none of their spokespeople disputed this account. the paper says the audio was captured by someone present for the conversation between trump and the canvassers. the detroit news obtained the audio through an intermediary who heard the recordings but was not present for the cause. nbc news has not heard or verify these recordings, but earlier tonight the reporter on this story broke it down to my colleague, ali velshi. >> it was laying out the arguments that the then president had been making on social media repeatedly about wayne county's election, making them over the phone, directly to these two county election officials, telling them, as you just said, but they would look terrible if they sign the certification, arguing with them, how could you sign this, knowing that there are more votes than there are, a clean that was not accurate but claim he made on the call with east to wayne county canvassers. and havi

donald trump and ronna mcdaniel were focused on telling them not to sign the certification document. >> okay. and we understand that the call, again, thanks to your reporting, the call that you're referencing that they took from donald trump, it may have been one that they took, just the two of them, was it inside a car outside the canvassing or is that wrong? tell me how that call happened? >> so the call happened like this. william hartman and monica palmer left the canvassing meeting. there was a crowd of people around them they entered a vehicle in the parking lot to take this call from donald trump and ronna mcdaniel. there were a group of people who got into the car with william hartman and monica palmer. so you had a number of people, a large number of people that were able to hear this call. >> okay. which may be in part how it got to you. but let me ask you about these canvassers.wayne county unfortunately we know that william hartman passed away in 2021. so now this leaves monica palmer. has there been anything that indicates initially they're opposing the certification, an

mcdaniels responded tonight: what i said publicly and repeatedly at the time it's referenced in my letter on november 21, 2020 is there was ample evidence that warranted an audit. i'm joined now by the senior political correspondent for the new york times and cnn political analyst. thank you for with us. the them president on the phone with county canvassers. take us back to his mind-set that will prompt this extraordinary overturned. >> there were a couple of days after election i would trump thing to be aware that he had lost and then a short time after that dug in on the idea that he had not. that he was going to make sure the transfer of power did not take place. this is a part of the effort. he started telling people that he wasn't going to leave. why would you leave if you lost an election? it is surprising that the president is doing this. it is not surprising this particular president was doing it. we know that he made other efforts to try. georgia is the most well-known case. this adds to evidence, and i have not heard the tape to be clear. if it is as described it would add to t

rhonda mcdaniel, and those two canvassers? how could election board members choose not to certify votes? how did that happen? >> we were aware of the pressure. in fact, monica palmer, as you show, talked about it publicly. that was no surprise. the content of this reporting was of no surprise. what was challenging in that moment was there was both a legal duty for the canvassers to certify. there was no evidence of any kind of wrongdoing presented to them. they had a ministerial responsibility. they certification on the local and state level. everyone knew they didn't certified to four person board if they voted not to certify it would've gone to the michigan supreme court which would compel them to certify. . they would've seen a state certification go forward. it was all a issue delay. we see that playing out here even now in this current issue with the supreme court in the current campaign. the issue of trying to delay in creating that delay gives a sense of uncertainty and allows this misinformation campaign to take. old u

perhaps the most stunning revelation is when ron na mcdaniel told the officials don't sign it, we'll get you attorneys. and then trump said we'll take care of that. incredible developments and the audio recording of donald trump in his own words. to be clear, cnn has not obtained this recording and not independently verified its contents. but it was reported by the detroit news just last night. here is a reaction from the trump campaign. they have pushed back on the idea that he ever did anything wrong. his campaign spokesman says all of president trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as president of the united states to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity. however, it is hard to take that at face value trying to overturn an election is the opposite of election integrity. and that is why trump is facing federal charge, federal criminal charges for trying to overturn the election. far sha marshall cohen, cnn, washington. >>> and ronna mcdaniel has responded to the detroit news article saying while i said publicly and repeatedly at the time th

because according to the detroit news, the republican national committee chair ronna mcdaniel was also on the call saying do not sign the certification. we will get you attorneys. after which trump chimed in, yeah, we'll take care of that. so how significant is this detail that the ex-president and rnc chair allegedly offered to provide lawyers for these canvassers? >> it is huge. and it is huge because you are offering a public official something of value in order to engage in an activity or not engage in an activity in terms of not certifying. so how do you justify doing this. we have free and fair elections in this country and in order for our democracy to flourish, it has to be respected. so why are you doing this. i think if you look at it in combination, you are involved in activities with someone else to alter the course of events and here you are telling officials we'll take care of your lawyers. it is a terrible look if you are a prosecutor. again from the defense, they will say it was his solemn dutu your eye on the prize. so those are the narratives that will pray out. whi p

and now, for r rona mcdaniel is the chair of the rnc and what is her camp responding to?> well, she is saying that she wanted an audit and nothing to interfere. and this is a statement from steven chung the top spokesman for the trump campaign. all of the trump actions were taken in furtherance as duty of president of the united states to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity, but look, sara, trying to overturn an election, that not election integrity. >> correct, since it has been proven time and again by courts and everyone else that the votes were what they were, and joe biden won the 2020 election. marshall cohen, thank you for all of your great reporting throughout, and there have been so many things dug up, and thank you to "the detroit news" for the exclusive today. thank you. >>> and with all of this we have matt lewis from the "daily beast" and also the former communications director for ted cruz alice stewart. so alice, coming off of what marshall laid out, what do you think of this? >> well, three things, kate. one, donald trump does no

i'm done he told ronna mcdaniel on the phone, i'm starting my own party.o we're losing forever. and she pleaded with trump and when that changed miserably reminding the former president it would cost millions of dollars. if he went through the plan the rnc would not only stop paying his legal bill, it would also prevent him from raising money off the supporters he and the party owned jointly. within a week, trump backed down. this sort of arrangement of convenience republicans can't win if he breaks from the party, and this is an issue they'd have to contemplate if they were ever to lose a primary and he needs the resources and raising money. >> to me it's one of the great what-ifs of the period between the end of the trump presidency and where we are now, where he once again has apparently total control over these parties. what if ronna mcdaniel had instead of begging and threatening him to stay in the party said good riddance, go. similar question to mccarthy, what if he said to trump bye-bye instead of pleading for him to come back a week after leaving

what about how mcdaniel, still the rnc chair, is responding? >> mcdaniel said all she wanted was an audit of the results before certification to check everything before certifying. i'll read a response from the trump campaign. they are pushing back pretty hard. the spokesman for the trump campaign said that all of president trump's actions were in furtherance of his duty as president of the united states to faithfully take care of the laws and insure election integrity. that doesn't really hold up. trying to insure election integrity, that's not overturning an election. >> exactly right. martial cohen, thank you. >> an important point. you wouldn't think you would have to make over and over and over again, yet here we are, and all eyes on the supreme court today waiting on huge decision was enormous political implications. special counsel jack smith a asking the court to decide immediately if president trump has immunity and if trump asks the high court to overturn an historic decision by the colorado supreme court removing him from the ballot

mcdaniel or mr. trump. >> so i want to follow up on that. you say you don't think it's necessary for jack smith to add those to his case, but he's trying to build out what appears to be a pattern, a conspiracy, right, of trump trying to overturn the election results. >> oh, absolutely. >> in the georgia case that was 11,000 votes where he said go find 11,000 -- i can't remember the exact number. in this case president biden won beating donald trump to 222,000 votes in wayne county. why would this not be critical? >> i'm not minimizing it. i just think the case jack smith has already built based upon, you know, the electoral certifications and his conduct on january 6th and his overall efforts of what he did in the white house as he, you know, watcheded the insurrection and basically cheered it on, i mean i think the case is just strong enough as it is. i think this is consistent with the case. i think it's what lawyers call evidence of his criminal intent. and i think it's certainly something smith will want to look at and may want to put in

rnc chairwoman mcdaniel was apparently on the call and said, quote, if you can go home tonight, do not sign it. we will get you attorneys. trump added, we'll take care of that. >> following that phone call two officials refused to sign the official certification paperwork and publicly admitted they received a call from trump and mcdaniel. here is how one of them described the call to reporters when asked about it a few days later. >> i received a call from the president. it was after the meeting. and he thanked me for my service, asked me how i was doing. there was a genuine concern for my safety with the threats he heard coming in. >> are you saying the president's call had no influence on you recanting your vote? >> absolutely. >> it's fair to say based on the reporting there was a little more to it than that. cnn has not heard the recording of the phone call. here's what's trump's campaign spokesperson is saying about it. all of trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duties as president of the united states to carefully ensure the laws and election integrity. sara christop

here, of course, we also have mcdaniel, the chair of the rnc, on the call as well. i think it's -- it confirms what many of us have already concluded about trump's behavior. >> there is, jeremy -- i think that dasha points this out well -- an intimidation factor. not that the secretary of state of any state is used to getting a call from the president of the united states. but when you are going down, as she said, granularity of this level, it's another thing all together. how might this fit into the larger universe of problems that trump is facing, jeremy? >> i think it really portends what we could see play out in 2024 if trump is the republican nominee as we expect him to be. he challenges results state by state as he did the last time. of course, those were all unsuccessful attempts. what we see here and why "the detroit news" is reporting it is so valuable, we see how a conspiracy theory is in real time. he will vote on voting irregularities to try to discredit the results of a fair election. i covered what was happening in detroit at the time. i remember there

two, ten and four teams matching up mike mcdaniel's dolphins hosting the cowboys.aniel really wanted to call a late first half timeout for good reason, because it set up this former niner raheem mostert, wide open for the touchdown miami up 13 seven at the half. all smiles for raheem. this young dolphins fan not as happy. ouch 3.5 minutes to go miami is only up six and dak prescott finds brandin cooks for the incredible go ahead touchdown. so nice. we show it twice dallas takes a 20 to 19 lead. but mike mccarthy his mood changes in a hurry when miami marches down the field jason sanders from 29 yards out as time expires. the dolphins win 2220, clinching a playoff berth. the loss drops dallas behind philly for the nfc east lead, so christmas is coming deion tomorrow around this time 40 niners are going to kick it off. tell christian to call you call me right. >> he has the address i was just looking about his salary. he can definitely afford it. >> you just making that up. you can afford. >> yeah yeah no problem no big deal okay. >> he's going to be okay. >> yeah. c

mcdaniel or mr. trump. >> i want to follow up on that. you say you don't think it's necessary for jack smith to add this to his case. but he's trying to build out what appears to be a pattern, a conspiracy of trump trying to overturn the election results. and the georgia case -- >> absolutely. >> that was 11,000 votes. that he said, go find these 11,000, i cannot remember the exact number. in this case, we should point out the president biden won michigan by with 148,000 votes, beating donald trump by more than 322,000 votes in wayne county where these canvassers were from. right? why wouldn't this be more critical? go ahead. >> i'm not minimizing. i think the case jack smith has already built, based upon the false electoral certifications and his conduct on january 6th and his overall efforts of what he did in the white house as he watched the insurrection and basically cheered it on, i think the cases isjust strong enough as it is. i think this is consistent with the case. i think it's what lawyers call cumulative evidence of his crimin

and during the phone call, which included rnc chairwoman ronna mcdaniel, trump reporte monica palmer and william hartman that they would look, quote, terrible if they sig the certification. namely because in an earlier canvasser's meeting both alleot against approving the county's election results before swi t two votes of support during that same meeting. now, following tha meeting and the call with trump, both hartman andmer tried unsuccessfully to rescind their votes i favor of certification saying they were pressured. the detroit news reached out to the spokespeople for the former president, rnc chair mcdaniel and canvasser monica palmer. none disputed a summary of the call. the other canvasser, william hartman, died in 2021. >>> still ahead, severe weather could spark major delays as holiday travel kicks into high gear this weekend. we'll have a report on that. plus former president trump continues spouting anti-immigrant rhetoric in a new social media video. we'll show the results in a recent poll whether the comments are helping or hurting his campaign. those stories and a che

i'm not going to speak to that from here. >> martha: can that we bring in ronna mcdaniel.ve you with us today. can you explain a little bit to people what is happening in florida? we hear so much about the damage that is done to democracy and how important it is for people to vote and get out the vote and yet there's two people that are running in the democratic primary and they decided you won't have that choice in florida. >> not only that, they changed their primary calendar, doing everything that they can to ensure this from biden. that moved from iowa to new hampshire to south carolina. they're keeping names off the ballots. they say the republicans are a threat to democracy. we're not putting our thumb on the scale. they're making sure that biden is bubble wrapped. they're going state by state to try to eliminate donald trump from the ballot for a crime he hasn't even been charged for through the 14th amendment. the rnc has done an amicus on this. >> martha: in colorado and michigan, they have charged the former president with insurrection, which he has not been char

and mcdaniel. but who knows what impact this will have, but it is another example, this recording of the kind of pressure that election officials were under to switch the 2020 election in favor of donald trump. >> yeah. michigan like georgia, a battleground state again next year, and vaughn hilliard, you know, we know -- we've known for a while that donald trump personally got involved in georgia, spoke to the secretary of state there, asked brad raffensperger to find the precise number of votes to put georgia in his column. that's what's so striking here, is it's trump himself with the power of the presidency behind him, potentially calling from the resolute desk in the oval office trying to lean on state officials to commit fraud. >> right. behind the scenes. don't forget he literally called arizona governor doug ducey as he was signing the certi certification, but he didn't answer the phone call. taking michigan here, you're talking about the wayne county board of canvassers. these are public se

the detroit news, then president donald trum chair as well as many folks know out there by, nald mcdaniel hearing on audio -- heard on audio, i should say, pressuring a officials on november 17th, 2020, at the line county board of canvassers receive fused to certif 2020 election. according to this reporting, jordan, trump specifically told republican nvassers that they would look terrible, quote unquote, if they signed the certification after initially voting against it and he and mcdaniel offered legal assistance as well. i want to reiteratanstress, neither nbc news or msnbc has heard or verified these recordin. you wrote about this latest audio and you wondered if there could be additional criminal charges here now because of michigan's bribery law. tell us more about that. michigan's bribery law punishes someone who corruptly offers a valuable thing to a public official with the intent of influencing their actions. so in this situation, as reported, the valuable thing would be legal services. so that michigan bribery law is one example of something that could give trump a -- for both o

during the phone call, which included rnc chair woman, ronna mcdaniel. trump reportedly told monica paer and william hartman they would look terrible, quote, if they signed the certification because in an earlier canvassing meeting, paul and hartman originally voted against approving the county's results, before switching to the words of support through the same meeting. following the meeting and the call with trump, palmer and hartman tried to rescind their votes in favor of certification saying that they were pressured to do so. the detroit news reached out to spokespeople for the former president. mcdaniel and canvas are monica palmer disputed the call. the other candidate, palmer, died in 2021. it sounds similar to georgia, you have to find me those votes. who knows what impact this will have, but there is this reporting that election officials were under pressure to switch the election in favor of donald trump? >> michigan, like georgia, a battle ground state again. next year. and bond, we've known for a while, donald trump purposely got involved wi

mcdaniel said at another point in the call, if you can go home tonight, do not sign it.ews has not been able to verify the recordings, but nbc news reached out to a spokesperson, and they did not dispute the discovery of the call. "the new york times" reporting that one of the so-called fake electors, the 16 people who were key part of trump's efforts to overturn the election in michigan, is expressing regret over his participation in his interviews with prosecutors working for the michigan attorney general. saying, quote, i felt i had been walked into a situation that i shouldn't have ever been involved in. i am very upset. i don't show it, but i am. the elector told investigators. adding that to say he felt betrayed is an understatement. that's all i can say. joining us now, joyce vance. tim is also back with us. tim, your first reaction reading about that phone call between trump, rnc chair mcdaniel, and the michigan official? >> you know, we heard about it during our administration. we spoke to monica palmer, who i believe is one of the board of canvassers, officials

superintendent mcdaniel i didn't get my word in at the beginning and i will do it now. thank you for the presentation today and thank you to reference the questions i sent you in your verbal remark it is. no need to do further research on it and the zone question was ensuring that the entire city is served fairly and evenly and if it's a system what works for you that's good for me. i hope the public would always choose safety over a clean street. ideally we want both but i appreciate you outlining how our employees are kept safe in some of the work functions particularly surrounding alleys and homeless -- cleaning up homeless encampments that have been moved and thank you for keeping the employees safe and i agree they will leave if they're not safe and that's the end of that discussion. i look forward to full staffing. you still have a lot to go and thanks for reporting out those statistics and i look forward to you getting the full staff that you need and i think we have all expressed the same frustration many times that public works gets blamed for problems that are

did you know anything about precisely what trump and, even rhonda mcdaniel, had told these canvasserse the story came out tonight or did you learn like the rest of us? >> not at all, i didn't have any idea. but, what they did say, they said they were under a lot of pressure. i knew and understood it to mean that they were under a lot of pressure from the party. i thought this was the demo -- the michigan republican party. so i just left it there. i never have imagined that the president, that the purpose of that call was to interfere with the election. of course, he was denying the election and all that, but i did not believe that it would actually interfere at that level. he -- we have never had, and it's one of the things that i mentioned to monica palmer and william hartman, we have never had any interference from our party, already officials, democratic or republican. the secretary of state governor or anyone have we ever had to worry about them calling us and trying to weigh in on certifying on the election. understanding this, that surging find the election was not about us dete

mcdaniel, thank you, bye. and again the farmer was out in his field until 9 pm. i told him we'd gather the herd together at 11 p. m to move on the one and use that. and when you see the heard or tell him to move his cattle further away, he might take care of the farmers without going with them whether they didn't. and even if just a small part was destroyed, they say it was the whole scene of it. and sometimes it the locals are watching a lot of. yes, i see them. i met a farmer who asked me some strange questions. the young man, i believe it, the normal clue, what are you doing? you're lazy pulled initiatives. keep pulling the the answer with conflict with sarah kelly was slow progress in the counter offensive and winter setting it, and there is a growing number of voices calling for a re think of what the priorities since the crane and how to achieve them from the berlin foreign policy for and i'm joined by ukraine's invest, searching alexi, montana. getting closer to being forced to consider health compromises. conflict in 30 minutes. d. w. this is not made of

mcdaniel had gone. he said, we are investigating to see who is linked to from us and who is know, several countries including germany, classify how mass as a terrorist organization. special correspondent abraham in jerusalem told me more as well since yesterday. we've seen these videos in images circulating on social media, but also broadcast on is really media during prime time, hours. the is really, a military says that it is investigating who the what the identities of these people are. these men that have been found a human britain. it's unclear of the surrender to be been captured. the details are really send a trying to. the idea says it is trying to ascertain if any of them are from us a fighters. but there have been also reports identifying at least one person from these photos as a, a gaza based journalist for a london newspaper. and the images have also been verified. some of them, at least been verified by the f p, a news agency, but this has caused at which, especially among people in the ai

national gop chair mcdaniel reportedly involved, too. >>> humanitarian crisis at the southern border. a video captures a woman crying crossing the rio grande while carrying a baby. texas officials responding to claims that she was ignored and the biden administration answering new calls to take executive action. >>> deadly shooting in prague killing at least 14 people. this hour of "cnn this morning" starts right now. ♪ >>> there are tapes, there are more tapes -- >> more tapes. >> -- apparently, according to the "detroit news." of donald trump urging election officials to block certifying the election, this time in michigan. there is a reported phone call of trump urging two election officials in wayne county to not certify the results. but trump called them after this meeting in 2020 where the same two officials initially put to block in the certification before backing down. >> there is no reason under the sun for us to have not certified this election. this is reckless and irresponsible actions by this board. >> in the phone call after the meeting, the "detroit news" reports trump

now, as far as the whole audio recording of ronna mcdaniel and donald trump putting pressure on this individual not to solidify and certify the election, it's no surprise. we also saw a trickle down. the bullying tactics to from the top. the trickle down even here in the state of nevada. to win had six nevada gop leaders that were also indicted who are being fake electors. and they also put the pressure on our secretary of state at the time, who was a republican, who refused to kowtow to the shenanigans and they ended up censuring her. this is something that we're seeing as a pattern. with the whole trump administration the people who basically see that he can do no wrong. and believe that he is the only answer forr nation to move foard. it's not an okay situation. >> amy, sticking with, you on thursday, rudy giuliani filed for bankruptcy in federal court. this comes less than a week after a jury ordered him to pay nearly $150 million to two former georgia election workers, ruby freeman and shaye moss. who he defamed. giuliani is also facing several other lawsuits. what's the lesson

also on the recording, republican national committee chairwoman rana mcdaniel told the officials the rnc would provide attorneys if they did not certify biden's victory in michigan, to which trump replied, quote, we'll take care of that. that pressure campaign almost worked. the two county officials unsuccessfully tried to withdraw their earlier votes certifying the results. joining me now is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. secretary benson, pardon the long windup there, but it's been a long and winding road. and a lot of this sounds very familiar. trump allegedly tried to pressure georgia's secretary of state to interfere in that state's election. how did these pieces fit together in your view? >> well, thanks for having me. it really underscores the vast conspiracy for lack of better word that was at play. a coordinated effort in all the battleground states to delay certification, create enough confusion about the validity of the election results. because if you have people block or refuse certify, that gives you another reason or him another reason to say see, there's

superintendent mcdaniel i didn't get my word in at the beginning and i will do it now. thank you for the presentation today and thank you to reference the questions i sent you in your verbal remark it is. no need to do further research on it and the zone question was ensuring that the entire city is served fairly and evenly and if it's a system what works for you that's good for me. i hope the public would always choose safety over a clean street. ideally we want both but i appreciate you outlining how our employees are kept safe in some of the work functions particularly surrounding alleys and homeless -- cleaning up homeless encampments that have been moved and thank you for keeping the employees safe and i agree they will leave if they're not safe and that's the end of that discussion. i look forward to full staffing. you still have a lot to go and thanks for reporting out those statistics and i look forward to you getting the full staff that you need and i think we have all expressed the same frustration many times that public works gets blamed for problems that are

ronna mcdaniel basically said we'll cover for you, we'll get you a lawyer.ing was wrong, and i'm pretty sure she'll probably be a witness in one case or another now. more importantly, this is what the republican party is putting forward and that narrative is something that can hopefully turn out owes republicans that slowed up for biden in 2020. >> charles coleman, susan del percio, and guy l. smith, thank you all for being here today. >>> still to come, from alec murdaugh to the murders in idaho, we're taking a look back at crimes that shocked the nation, and the trials that captivated millions in 2023. plus, the latest on the christmas eve mall shooting in colorado that killed one person and injured two more. keep it right here. keep it right here there is a lot of information out there. hamas slaughtered more than 1200 innocent people, holds innocent hostages, and raped countless innocent women. and now hamas is trying to hide sexual violence against women. they don't want those women to be able to talk about what happened to them stand with palestinians

great pressure here for pushing ron and mcdaniel. and using it as leverage to encourage their testimony in the larger case. >> i appreciate this. i don't want to hear, as i said, from you on this for a few days. that gives me a little more clarity. thank you to both of. you fantastic to have you. we are posting this conversation. we are gonna headed out the part where barbara said taylor swift can't be president. noah bookbinder is president of the responsibility of -- at the top of the next hour, i will be speaking to judge michael luttig, who along with the constitutional scholar, lawrence tribe, was one of the first to popularize and promote the idea that section three of the 14th amendment disqualifies donald trump from being on the ballot. still ahead, the death toll in gaza has now surpassed 20,000 according to the got the health ministry. nbc news cannot verify those numbers. you know what? we can virtually never verify death counts in a war. we do have reason to believe those numbers are pretty accurate. we will explain why,