isn't that the way it's always been, successful business -- >> mcdonald douglas, nfl, wall to wall unionunionization levels are down, not because workers are leaving the union, but because union jobs are being shipped overseas by these trade deals and because of employer avoidance of the laws that's supposed to keep workers free to join a union. >> it's not just a number, but the percent of workers as far as union participation is down, so you can't tell me, it's because workers have moved overseas, it's because they're leaving. >> i do worry about to the idea that these businesses they pay a lot of money for a mcdonald's franchise, and they are being attacked because the real target is the mcdonald's parent corporation. how does that work out for the worker? >> not at all, because when you pay workers a living wage, you get a stable motivated workforce, you're not continually having people leave, and retrain people. under george w. bush, found 30,000 workers a year were fired for trying to join or form a union. and that's under the nlrb. >> we're going to have to leave it here. but i th