and former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. let me start with you, ambassador mcfaul. i have been saying this for two weeks now. we look at the trees, we miss the forest. the forest today was the glorious testimony. fiona hill was like a warm knife cutting through cold butter in terms of laying bare that she was there as an advocate for u.s. national security, u.s. national security policy, and the defense of an american ally who was threatened by russia. and what she described there as a political errand, a campaign being run for donald trump for domestic political purposes, a devastating corroboration of sondland's testimony yesterday that he was answering to donald trump when it came to the extortion campaign of asking for those investigations before military aid and a meeting would be granted. >> you just summed it up. and i actually think that quote and that clip might be the summary of the entire proceedings. it just captures in a minute what was going on here. there was one policy towards ukraine. and fiona hill is the top white house adviser on ukraine, all of

ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul.ormer federal prosecutor for the southern and eastern districts of new york, barrett berger. ben rhodes and elise jordan. jonathan lemire, let me start with you and what the ap is reporting about a second witness to that call between sondland and donald trump who among other problems with it sounds like it wasn't secure at all. >> reporter: right. yesterday in many ways the breakout piece of news, if you will, was the revelation of this phone call from ambassador taylor. he vealed it yesterday in the hearing saying that one of his aides overheard it. that aid will now be testifying behind closed doors in the next couple of days. the ap has been able to report that a second diplomatic staffer was also present at the time, overheard the call and has verified the same contents. so what this does, it is a significant step here. that much more closely ties the president to this effort to shake down ukraine to threaten to withhold the military aid unless it cooperates with his desire to inve

joining us now is michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia in the obama administration.r fbi official and former u.s. attorney. he is a former counselor to robert mueller at the fbi and now hosts the msnbc podcast "the oath." ambassador mcfaul, we have with these so-called 302s, these fbi notes for the mueller investigation released this weekend this new window into trump world's thinking about russia. michael flynn just totally defensive of everything involving russia in ways that rick gates describes to the fbi and others. what was your reading of what we discovered there? >> i haven't read everything yet, lawrence. i have a day job out here at stanford. but what i have read from the summary reports it's just shocking. this crazy idea about ukraine being responsiblresponsible. and before we get to their interpretation of it, i just want to remind everybody in 2016, candidate trump was saying he might look into recognizing crimea as being part of russia. candidate trump was saying he wanted to lift sanctions on the russians, and he wanted to blow up nato, and he never s

for more on what we've been learning from the depositions this week i'm joined my michael mcfaul. let me talk to you first. one thing that comes out in these transcripts is that the folks piecing this together whether it's fiona hill that was at the nsc where you used to work or lieutenant colonel vindman or others, they're not getting the full sfory because someone is hidesing the ball from them. because the people that are running the rogue operation are wise enough to understand what they are trying to do is probably illicit and inappropriate. do you get that sense from what we learn? >> that's exactly what happened. the career foreign service officers were shoved aside. the national security experts would make a recommendation to the president, and the president would agree to it and the career people follow it out. sometimes there's a political appointee involved in this. but the president shoved that aside and had rudy giuliani and some russian oligarchs and ukrainian corrupt goons who are actually now under indictment in the u.s. justice system, try and pull a fast one on t

that's a misstate for diplomacy. >> ambassador michael mcfaul and david from "the washington post."are you doing back there, junior? since we're obviously lost, i'm rescheduling my xfinity customer service appointment. ah, relax. i got this. which gps are you using anyway? a little something called instinct. been using it for years. yeah, that's what i'm afraid of. he knows exactly where we're going. my whole body is a compass. oh boy... the my account app makes today's xfinity customer service simple, easy, awesome. not my thing. >>> before we go, an important update. for the first time in all that time, the government of iran is acknowled acknowledging the case of robin levinson. this is welcome news for his family. >>> my family and i were optimistic. we believe this is the first step. we think it is an overdue acknowledgment that iran know where is my father is and they know what happened to him and can find him. levenson went miss ing in 2007. president trump called for his release, and the state department increased the award for levenson to $25 million. we are hoping he comes

they cannot run away from anymore. >> mick mulvaney i want to get to in a second, but ambassador mcfaul, i read a story today about republicans in the -- about republicans in the house work shopping their defense of the president. and one of things they're workshoping -- >> a hard job. >> yeah, it is a hard job and i don't envy them. blue sky, run it up the flag pole, see what catches wind. and they've decided that maybe one idea is like everyone was freelancing, like gordon sondland and mick mulvaney and the president, and this was a defense that worked for ronald reagan in iran contra. it never got to the president in iran contra. but ronald reagan never called up the ayatollah and said we're going to sell you some weapons so we can fund the contras. the phone call makes this impossible for it not to touch the president, right? >> i'm really glad you're pivoting back to the transcript because that's exactly right. it's clear as day. i remember the days before whether he was going to release that, i kept saying on television programs like yours there's no way they'll ever release a tra

george conway, i think mike mcfaul makes a great point. you can be a career ambassador, a career member of the foreign service, and never have a phone call with the president of the united states. >> that's absolutely right. and sondland is the one who apparently called trump. was it in the middle of the night, to figure out what to say to respond to taylor, when taylor said, what do we got here, a quid pro quo? i mean, you don't just wake up the president in the middle of the night. and apparently the president, according to sondland, wasn't in a very good mood. so he's calling the president of the united states on a cellphone on the middle of the night and now trump is saying, i don't know him? it's a joke. >> senator mccaskill, traditionally u.s. presidents are awakened in the middle of the night to find out about u.s. air strikes overseas or, god forbid, hostage takings and things like that. >> the security breaches here. what's happening to us is beyond bizarre, because this stuff is so big and so impactful that all the other stuff fa

and ambassador michael mcfaul, former u.s.assador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst. i know you both know fiona hill. mike mcfaul, you've worked with her very recently. her testimony was extraordinary. she was basically suggesting a situation where implicitly, unwittingly, whatever, the president is embracing vladimir putin's theory of the case. >> that's right. and you're right, i've known fiona for about three decades. she knows russia well, she's written one of the best books on putin ever. it's always been a mystery to me how she could work with president trump for 2 1/2 years, given that he is constantly picking up on russian disinformation, including about me, by the way, in helsinki a year and a half ago when he wanted to hand me over to putin for interrogation on a completely crazy theory of what we americans allegedly did inside russia. and i think it was very important she said that, that was a brave comment, because first and foremost she was saying that to her former boss. when president trump raise

. >> michael mcfaul and our legal analyst, mile wiles wiley. it is important that you keep records. >> correct. it is a nice way to put it. the fact that baambassador tayl takes meticulous notes and s sondland dis not aware of the facts. he gave a million dollars to the inauguration party that's why he's at the eu where ambassador taylor served for 30 years in the u.s. government. technically ambassador taylor was a political appointee when he was appointed by president bush to be the ambassador of ukraine. he switched over from being a civil servant to a political appointee. >> hold on a second, maya. we have seen influential donors get appointed to ambassador-ship for years and years. >> it does not make them bad. >> that's not new. are there legal ramifications there. did gordon sondland testify to one set of information? he confirmed that set of information and he's not saying oh by the way this also happens. he's reverting the heart and the meat of what he testified to. are there no consequences? >> so these are consistent consistent -- in

and mike mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia. notably his book is titled "from cold war to hot peace: an american ambassador in putin's russia." jeremy, i'd like to begin with you. it's been a long day. the evidence has been devastating. take a step back. take a look back. what did we learn today? what did we learn about these witnesses, and what about is the president reveal aboutnd himsel? >> awell, when the curtain wen up today, brian, i think many of us thought what possibly could ambassador yovanovich add to this story because, of course, she had been ousted by the time the presidentby got on the phon with president zelensky on ukraine on july 25th. but, in fact, as it turns out, she was potentially the most significant witness to date. i think her testimony was an emotionaly pivot point because here sat a career foreign service leader, 33 years veteran of the state department, who essentially was fighting corruption in ukraine, and the first obstacle that the trump team saw in trying to remove her so that they can get their

of how long ambassador mcfaul and i have been on television. at first they were debunked theories, now their cockamamie, and that's right. >> sorry about that word. >> but that's right, they're whack-a-doo. i'm sure there are even people at fox news who are uncomfortable spreading debunked theories. i think in the cloud somewhere, there isn't a piece of hardware floating around, for those still looking for it. the idea that she is so faithful to the rule of law, to american national security ideals, and to the truth, that she used her open statement to chastise those who are spreading blatant lies that benefit putin. >> it is the president of the united states, in person, on television, on twitter, who is spreading that cockamamie theory. which he seems just absolutely gripped by, according to all the prior testimony, going back to early last spring, certainly by may, certainly by the recall of ambassador yovanovitch. and for the president to be used by russian military intelligence, by vladimir putin this way, is so appalling, there should be

i have one more for you, ambassador mcfaul. we sat here talking about how reminiscent fiona hill's tone andon panic about russian influence felt to what mueller's testimony felt like in his most compelling moments. it was in a line of questioning from congressman will hurd, who is on this committee. i will watch him today to see if he returns to those questions that were on his mind on july 24th. but fiona hill, i think george kent before her and his testimony before last wednesday, put into the timeline between donald trump's congratulatory call with zelensky and this monkey kybusiness, this extorti of investigations and proving one's self before military aid, a phone call with vladimir putin and a meeting with his ally in the world stage, orban. what do you make about the fact that here we go again? here we go again with questions about not just donald trump's conduct, not just what appears like extortion, but donald trump's onloyalties, his orientation on the world stage? which seems to always come back to that whichs is fav

ambassador michael mcfaul. kelly, i want to start with you at the white house. first, let me do the president's tweets here so everybody knows what we're referring to. this is what he did this morning. everywhere marie yovanovitch went turned bad he tweets. she started off in somalia. how did that go? then fast forward to ukraine where they knew the ukrainian president spoke unfavorably about her. quick fact check aside, that's not true. it's the president who brought her up. they call it serving at the pleasure of the president. the u.s. now has a very strong and powerful foreign policy much different than preceding administrations. it is called quite simply america first. with all that, however, i have done far more for ukraine o. the white house, do they at all accept the fact that this tweet ended up backfiring on them today on capitol hill? >> well, not publicly. but certainly, it has changed the dynamic today because the argument republicans were on their way to making is that this ambassador, although well-respected and certainly personally painful for he

. >> ambassador mcfaul, you're often on the receiving end of this observation from me. but can you just take us through how weird that is? this is not normal. this is so far from normal. and i ask about the criminal aspect because it's just a constant plot twist. anything related to trump always involves either a past, present, or future intersection with a federal criminal investigation. >> well, you know more about that than i do. but it is very strange the way this happened. i think it was a good strategy by ambassador sondland to say we are all in this together and pulled everybody under the bus with him. i think it's important to underscore that not once was the main quid pro quo that he started with ever, ever refuted. that is to say the holding of the oval office visit in return for those investigations, right? every republican pivoted to the military assistance and then said, well, did you ever hear donald trump say he was withholding assistance from that? and remember that was not where he started with. but i think the military assistance is also important to u

. >> mica mcfaul, our former u.s. ambassador to moscow is with us and has been listening in. ambassador, we haven't had your take yet after all of this coverage. where this impacts your life's work. what do you make of it? >> well, a couple of things, obviously this is a bombshell. everybody threw sondland under the bus and he dragged everybody with him today because he has nothing to lose so he just is sticking to the facts and the facts are deeply damning to the president of the united states. second point, it's getting lost in the quid pro quo conversation but remember the first quid pro quo was an oval office visit and throughout hours and hours of testimony here, that is never been disputed and i think it's very important to remember that never happened either so when the republicans say, oh, what's the big deal, military assistance was turned back on, the first quid pro quo never happened and remember that and then, second, on the military assistance piece, i think it is important that ambassador sondland linked it up to the -- this is not some side deal. this is the go

thank you very much, ambassador mcfaul. let's go to the president. here's the president of the united states this afternoon defending himself against the charge from the chairman of the committee adam schiff that he engaged basically in witness tampering today. >> i'm the most transparent president in history. and i'll tell you about what tampering is. tampering is when a guy like shifty shift doesn't let us have lawyers, doesn't let us speak. i've been watching today for the first time i started watching, and it's really sad when you see people not allowed to ask questions. it's totally -- nobody's ever had such horrible due prochlts there was no due process. and i think it's considered a joke all over washington and all over the world. the republicans are given no due process whatsoever. we are not allowed to do anything. it's a disgrace what's happening. but you know what? the american public understands it. and that's why the poll numbers are so good. and that's why other things are so good. what they are doing in washington -- and by the way it'

ambassador michael mcfaul, served as u.s. ambassador to russia under president obama and now an msnbc international affairs analyst. ambassador, thanks for being with us. what we know and where this is going, what we know bill taylor said his staffer overheard a phone call between president trump and the eu ambassador. you were an ambassador, did you ring up president obama when you were working under him from a restaurant out in your neck of the woods? >> well, let me add context. ambassador sondland just met president -- i don't know when they met but started working for him just during the inauguration after he paid a million dollars to that party to become the u.n. ambassador. i worked three years at the white house before becoming the u.s. ambassador to russia and i never once called president obama. i knew him for seven years during my time there, two on the campaign, five in the government. knew the guy pretty well. used to see him very often at the white house. i just say all that because it is incredibly rare for the

mike mcfaul served as u.s. ambassador to russia in the obama administration. ambassador, there you have bill taylor, west point class of '69, and by the way, you graduate from west point in '69 you know you are headed into a meat grinder. he chooses infantry. he further chooses to go to ranger school. 101st airborne. bronze star. comes home from the war and spends virtually every day of his life in service to the public. could it be that today was about more to him than defending a phone call? >> absolutely. that was very eloquently stated. it's his whole life's service to this country and the relationships and partnerships we have with very important countries like ukraine. and i thought that particular segment you just played was very moving. i did watch the whole thing with you, by the way. you must be very tired too. and i just think it was important for americans to understand that it's always wrong to ask -- to use your public office for private gain. it's especially wrong to ask a foreign government to help you win re-election. but it makes it even trip

and former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. thank you for being here. president trump has indicated he is considering testifying, possibly in writing. how does that affect the strategies? >> well, i mean, it's just ridiculous. i don't think he will. i think that's in the pigs will fly first category. he's not going to do that. you know, in the mueller investigation, he did give written answers. but now there's a real issue whether or not the written answers which cannot truthful if that will reopen that information given the information from the roger stone trial. bitten by that, my guess is he does not go forward and provide any written answers. >> michael, the argument from republicans thus far is it's hearsay, it's hearsay. besides from witnesses we'll be hearing from tomorrow who were on that july 25th call what's the republican argument not to have mick mulvaney, rick perry, john bolton? >> i think they should. they keep talking about how they need more witnesses. all of these people were directly involved. i think it's kind of crazy that we would

with us to talk about this is michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia whose book is titled "from cold war to hot peace: an american ambassador in putin's russia." ambassador, good to see you again. >> sure. >> talk to me about -- there seems to be a fundamental departure from the norms that both republicans and democrats have previously observed on capitol hill about the importance placed on the confidentiality and protection of whistle-blowers. >> it does seem that way. i think it's very disappointing. i think it will make it more difficult for future whistle-blowers to come forth and to use the legal rights that they have. and you just mentioned my book. it reminds me that when i was the u.s. ambassador a guy by the name of edward snowden showed up in moscow and one of his complaints was that he didn't think he could use the processes accorded to him in the whistle-blower rules and regulations. and i was out publicly pretty often, every day, saying no, he should have used those opportunities for him. this undermines that. this mak

ambassador mcfaul, thank you for joining us. what strikes me these three amigos, rudy giuliani, sondland, volker, rick perry, the secretary of energy, all these people involved in the back channel effort to shakedown a foreign leader who again was under distress from soviet aggression to deliver dirt on a political opponent -- so many people deputized by this president to do the dirty work. >> yeah, deputized, brought in and it had to be a back channel because the formal channel of the other people you were talking about refused to go along with it. i think that's another important point that will also come out when these people are on camera. i know ambassador yovanovitch, colonel vindman. these are very credible people that will testify and undermine the claim of the deep state. ambassador taylor, you know, he was appointed by george w. bush to be presideambassador of ukra he's not going to get ahead of his skis and speak with as much emotion as i'm speaking right now, and i think that will be very difficult for the other side

ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, an msnbc international affairs analyst. good to see you guys. garrett, what do we know so far about the judiciary committee's hearing scheduled for december 4th? >> i'm told that this hearing is something we should look at as a 30,000 foot view on impeachment. the judiciary committee membership hope that they will have intel's report on everything that we know about this ukraine scandal by then, but even if they don't, this hearing will be to set the table. what is a high crime and misdemeanor. what is an impeachable offense. and perhaps, if they have the report by then, some answering of the questions of, does what is laid out in this report rise to that standard? but this is judiciary committee essentially setting the table for what could be a series of hearings on the ukraine issue itself, starting by answering that fundamental question, is what is an impeachab ablable of for the president of the united states. we'll start to see that work beginning on wednesday, december 4th. >> then the federal judge's ruling on don mcgahn's testimony. a lo

ambassador mcfaul, as always, sir, thank you very much. joining me now to unpack all of this today, betsy woodruff swan, michael steele, former rnc chairman, and ruth marcus, also an msnbc contributor. well, betsy, the weirdest thing about the gordon sondland today, is it was the most predictable thing to happen. he was setting this up. when he went back to review the transcript. and everything you read about this guy, he clearly, oh, my god, what have i gotten myself into. this was painfully obvious this was going to happen. still it happening is a big blow to the president. >> and it's also, to state the obvious, a big problem for sondland's testimony because it indicates that maybe if other people jog his memories in the right way, some of those other "i don't recall" answers might turn into, oh, well, now you mention it, maybe i know more than i did. the fact that he now has copped to telling the ukrainians that they needed to open these investigations in order to get military aid. >> is he the one to tell the ukrainians that? >> i don

i'm joined by josh ledderman and michael mcfaul.e go to josh on this just to get this reporting done. he's the guy. >> yeah. i mean -- >> he's the guy that trump was using to work this deal. not a government guy, not a man schooled in the culture of the state department or government or public life or anything. he had another guy like him and he said i want you to take this project over. i want you to squeeze this guy, get some dirt i can use in the next election. >> the more witnesses that come forward, chris, the more we learn about how central of a role gordon sondland played in this. not only the fact that he had multiple conversations with president donald trump about investigations, about getting the ukrainians to make that statement about investigations into burisma but the fact that he spoke to the ukrainian leadership, to mr. yermak. he did not tell congress about -- >> small detail. >> small detail. >> i'm just teasing. let me go to the ambassador on this. ambassador mcfaul if you're a regular ambassador, you took the exam

ambassador to russia and analyst michael mcfaul, and andrew weissmann, head of the fraud section of the department of just, now an nbc news legal analyst. gentlemen, andrew, let me start with you. i want to play what appeared to be denny heck's closing argument, and it was taking evidence that he learned, he was basically trying to give the closing argument on this ukraine quid pro quo. i want you to grade him after we hear it. take a listen. >> the president didn't solicit campaign assistance from ukraine in a clear violation of federal law. yes, he did. the president didn't withhold vital military assistance in furtherance of his objective to obtain that campaign assistance. yes, he did. rudy giuliani was acting just on his own, kind of as a rogue. no, he wasn't. that all this is business as usual. this happens all the time, and stems from a principled interest. no, it isn't, and no, it wasn't. and that it's okay to attack patriotic diplomats in public service if they stand in your way and have the courage to speak up. no, it isn't. those are just some of the big lies, but here's the

i want to bring mike mcfaul into this conversation. one of our colleagues came into the studio while we were on the air. there's no gentle way to say this. but he expressed that maybe this ambassador taylor was what the democrats thought they were getting in bob mueller as a witness months ago. >> yeah. and look, bob mueller's testimony is going to be compared not in a flattering way to bob mueller. but let me defend bob mueller. what bob mueller did on july 24th was he conditioned the public to believe that maybe donald trump doesn't shoot straight. what bob mueller testified to were 150 contacts between the trump campaign and the russians during the campaign, which while not a criminal conspiracy in the conclusions of the mueller report, sounded like maybe donald trump viewed foreign governments as something to be used for his political purposes. and then robert mueller's service to the country was also in that second volume an obstruction report. and if you read the report in "the new york times" yesterday, that donald trump is seek

. >> let's turn to michael mcfaul, who is former ambassador to russia. mr. ambassador, let's talk about john bolton because he's the missing link here in the terms of this july 10th meeting. although, his -- his former deputy fiona hill says that after the meeting, that july 10th meeting, where he had kind of recoiled and stiffened, bolton then says to her, you go and you go toll tell the nsc la. i'm not part of whatever drug deal they're cooking up, which i think is national security council speak for something that sounds kind of nefarious. is not a literal dug drarug dea something on the side that obviously bolton was uncomfortable with. >> absolutely. and fiona testified very eloquently about it. i should call her dr. fiona hill. i've known fiona for three decades so it's hard for me to do that. and i thought that was incredibly damning. there's no ambiguity at all that there was a quid pro quo for the meeting. but i also thought it was very damning what david holmes said. by the way, somebody i also worked with in moscow. when he reported, when he testi

. >> michael mcfaul was the u.s.mbassador to russia at the time. >> that's why he invaded, that's why he went in. >> days after the closing ceremony in sochi, the russian president launched a stealth operation to occupy ukraine's strategically important crimean peninsula. it was a bold and new type of invasion. soldiers with unmarked uniforms, known only as little green men, blocked roads, took over army bases, took over strategic posts, quietly, efficiently, without violence. russia denied any involvement. only later would putin proudly acknowledge the invasion was carried out by russian commandos. i watched as pro-russian supporters tightened their grip on power and gave the people a vote. but no real choice. >> these men and their russian backers now run things here, and many crimeans believe the upcoming referendum is just a rubber stamp for takeover by force that's already happened. >> and sure enough, when the results of the hastily organized referendum were announced, crimea voted to become part of mother russ

. >> ambassador mcfaul, it's a good reminder that one of the many ways this is different from the mueller probe, this is an investigation in realtime. a different kind of one. the mueller probe is a special counsel investigation, criminal in nature. this is a congressional investigation that will lead to quite possibly a senate trial, and the evidence is being revealed in testimony happening in public, witnesses being called in realtime. that seems to be what is unnerving donald trump. >> i think that's an excellent point. obviously there are lots of witnesses we would like to see that we may not. mr. giuliani is on the top of my list right now. some of his associates, lev parnas, may be deciding to go a different way. remember what's really important substantively about what was said today, it pushes the timeline back to the spring. this is not just one phone call. these people were trying to get mr. lutsenko, the prosecutor general, to open the investigation of hunter biden, the vice president's son and the chief political opponent of the president at the time. that all started in the s

because they have been using super charged intelligence and disinformation like it said in mike mcfaul'srticle. and they believe the conspiracy theories. they believe the rumors. they believe things that are patently false. and until you can beat that, those people are going to be almost irretrievable. >> let me put up a politico poll that was taken in august that asked voters whether they thought russia will try to meddle in the 2020 election. 61% of all voters say so. 78% of democrats say so. and 48% of republicans say so. all categories are up from the last time that was polled in the same way in october of 2018. however, the question is interesting. russia will try to meddle in the 2020 election, right? we still hear the refrain. you have been on my show when we've heard the refrain from people who say no votes were hacked. there is no evidence that a vote was changed. but that is if you look at it simplicitily that a vote cast was not changed to a different vote. if you are causing people to stay home, if you are causing people to change their votes through disinformation, who fixes

home on the day of the new president's inauguration, a highly unusual move, something ambassador mcfaul has tweeted out was only meant and only designed to embarrass her. we've also been covering the breaking news that donald trump's oldest and longest-serving political adviser roger stone was today found guilty of seven counts. they include lying to congress, something that may land with a thud for any witnesses in the impeachment trial or impeachment proceeding of donald trump. we're expecting to hear next week from some of the witnesses who had firsthand knowledge of donald trump's statements and conduct in the smear campaign and the pressure campaign in ukraine. chris? >> nancy pelosi, the speaker, who is really the impressaro, she said, quote, we've been very busy but all the reaction we've heard is very positive. we're very proud of adam schiff and the courage of the witness. so i think they're very happy with what they've put on today in terms of fact witness. >> and i think that what they have to blunt, to the degree that republicans threw ten pounds of cold spaghetti against a

the former us ambassador to russia michael mcfaul has respnded. ..hris is, whether he did that effectively and whether he did that effectively and whether he did that effectively and whether he prodded that he provided enough evidence to back up his perception of what he was being asked to do. i think the reality is it depends whether you want the democrat side over republican side and it feels like everybody here in washington has a site at the moment as to whether or not you believe thatis as to whether or not you believe that is the case. certainly there we re that is the case. certainly there were moments that gordon sondland testimony struck worrying notes particularly for democrats as he used some phrases that almost seemed designed for the headlines. for example, we designed for the headlines. for exa m ple, we followed designed for the headlines. for example, we followed the president's orders. that they follow the express direction of president trump to allow his personal lawyer to push ukraine and to launching investigations into his politi

ambassador yovanovitch, as michael mcfaul testified with great dignity and reserve, thoughtfully, but that she was intimidated by the president's earlier tweets, earlier statements about her, that she was going to go through something. was he listening? did he know she had been intimidated and did he then tweet that she had served poorly? was he sticking the knife in the back of a witness who already acknowledged that she was intimidated? because that compounds it in my view. if it was just out of the blue and lots of things are with this president, that's bad. if it was in response to her earlier testimony at this hearing today that she had been intimidated previously, that's awful. >> people that have covered donald trump for years as a reality tv figure and i guess attempted business person, i don't know what he describes himself as in that category, describe him as a counter-puncher. it's very different when you're punching against a witness in your own impeachment. >> it's very different. and what you're saying, nicole, building on what chuck said, actually goes straight to his m

. >> neal, i think it's important, too, ambassador mcfaul's going through it, why are we here? we're here because a whistle-blower put together a compilation of concerns and allegations that didn't easily make its way to the icig, but ultimately, the intelligence community's inspector general or watchdog corroborated those concerns. they were about this pressure campaign. and then transmitted them to congress. but even that is part of the scandal. we learned yesterday in "the new york times" that donald trump as recently as a couple weeks ago talked about firing the watchdog for the intelligence community. to ari's point, the conduct from mueller is the conduct in ukraine is the conduct since the scandal spilled into full view. >> exactly. it's the same pattern of behavior each time. and i think what makes this one a little harder is that it starts with this whistle-blower, who's a career servant, and it's continued on as the witnesses today we'll see, like career diplomats, like people in trump's own white house who are saying the president engaged in wrongdoing. so, it's hard

ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst michael mcfaul. paul butler, georgetown school of law professor. former federal prosecutor and an nbc news and msnbc legal analyst. let me start with you, ari melber. we've been staring at the trees. there's a instinct to sometimes look at the trees and skip over the forest. but what do we see when we look at the whole picture today? >> when you look at the whole picture today, you have the star witness to a bribery plot and he's also now made himself new today the star witness to obstruction article of impeachment against president trump. i have not seen testimony like this to date in the trump era. not comey, not the diplomats last week who were impressive in their own way. i have never seen a day in the trump presidency like this ever. and like you, i live and breathe this, like it or not. this was a complete and exhaustive accounting from not only a star witness we've heard the term but from someone who could either be the lynchpin to the entire alleged bribery plot or a co-conspirator. mr. sondl

joining me now is michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia. ambassador, thank you very much for being here this morning. >> sure, thanks for about having me. >> so what are the -- of the many things that happened over the last week, there was the testimony of the lieutenant colon colonel vich colonel vichbd m colonel alexander vindman who testified about what happened. he was one of the people on that phone call, on that july 25th phone call. from my understanding, you know who lieutenant colonel vindman is. what kind of person is he and then i'll followle up with another question about him. >> yeah, i do know him. we served in moscow together. he was a military attache the same time i was. and he is everything that you would want in a military attache. committed to the cause, dedicated to american national interests, spoke fluent russian, knew the country well. you know, a first rate person to have on your team if you are trying to advance american foreign policy. >> and i asked you to talk about who lieutenant colonel vindmant me that there

ambassador to russia michael mcfaul put it this way in a "washington post" column just last week, and i'll quote part of the column. quote, such smear tactics are revolting and un-american. vindman has served our country with honor and distinction, both on and off the battlefield, and he is a patriot, as you would expect from someone with his outstanding resume. the idea that vindman might have dual loyalties with another nation is preposterous. vindman was born in the totalitarian soviet union, not the, quote, ukraine, unquote. his family, which is jewish, fled religious persecution. he is not soviet or ukrainian or ukrainian american. he is simply an american. using birthplaces or hyphenated adjectives to disparage fellow americans is always wrong. it is especially so in the case of lieutenant colonel vindman. unquote, from the op-ed from a distinguished ambassador. mr. president, when i reflect upon lieutenant colonel vindman's service to our country and his integrity, i'm reminded of one of the lines -- we could use many, but one of the lines from "america the beautiful." o beauti

>> former ambassador michael mcfaul, our conversations are always illuminating.t, elizabeth warren's medicare for all plan. will voters buy into it. >>> plus, a new warning from isis. did president trump's tough talk light a fuse? ump's tough talk light a fuse i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cou

so said former ambassador mcfaul. and i agree with him. and i think most americans would agree with him. lieutenant colonel vindman is just one of the many brave patriot patriots who have testified as part of the this impeachment inquiry. ambassador yovanovitch has dedicated over 30 years to the foreign service. she has rightfully earned the respect and has earned the credibility that she has within the u.s. national security community for her anticorruption efforts in ukraine and for her unwavering commitment to u.s. national security interests. ambassador mckinley has served this country as senior advisor to the secretary of state, ambassador to brazil, afghanistan, colombia, and peru. he has demonstrated fierce loyalty to his colleagues in the state department and to the united states itself. ambassador taylor -- ambassador taylor's life has been marked by his service to our nation, from west point to the 101st airborne in vietnam, to his work as ambassador to ukraine and other significant foreign policy roles. we should all be inspired