i like don mcgahn. don mcgahn is a good lawyer. he is a careful lawyer. don mcgahn is not getting disbarred or going to jail for donald trump. so i guarantee you, and i bet my life on it, don mcgahn answered every question directly with maximum knowledge, whether it incriminated the president or not. and what the trump people don't understand is this. he's not the president's personal attorney. he is the white house counsel. he is an assistant to the president. he is a commissioned officer. he doesn't work for donald trump. he works for us. he works for the american people. he swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution in much the same way that donald trump did. that's what his obligation is. it's not to lie for the president. it's to tell the truth to the special counsel on behalf of the american people for whom he works and serves. >> it's a good point. real quick, when george w. bush needed a lawyer in the valerie plame investigation, the white house counsel was not said lawyer. he had a personal attorney, jim sharp. this idea that

. >>> breaking news, mcgahn's exit. president trump announces white house counsel don mcgahn will soon leave. he reportedly threatened to quit last year if the president fired robert mueller. the president says he is not concerned, but could mcgahn's exit mean that he will try to shuts down the mueller probe? >> accused of racism. after winning nomination for governor, ron desantis says voters would, quote, monkey this up if they elected his african-american opponent. democrats call that and i'm quoting now a racist dog whistle. the fixer whopleading guilty, t former fixer makes it clear he had no choice but to protect his wife and family as he awaits sentencing. michael cohen indicating that he is now ready to serve his time in prison. >>> and honoring mccain. arizonians pay their respects to john mccain as official ceremonies marking his passing begin in his home state. tonight, tears and tributes to an american hero. i'm wolf blitzer. you are in t"the situation roo." >>> breaking news, president trump announces that

>>> tonight white house counsel don mcgahn's exit announced via presidential tweet surprises even mcgahn himself. was it ivanka and jared who set the wheels in motion? and did mcgahn's testify to robert mueller play a role? >>> plus, one trump ally warning the "washington post" tonight, winter is coming and the white house is not prepared. phil rucker is standing by with the details. >>> and in florida, republican ron desantis accused of racism for calling his african-american opponent articulate and urging florida not to monkey this up. tonight, andrew gillum responds. "the 11th hour" begins now. >>> good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. i'm ali velshi in for brian williams. day 587 of the trump administration brings the sudden news that the west wing attorney who has been the pivotal link to robert mueller during the russia investigation is out. white house counsel don mcgahn will soon be making his exit. axios was first out with a report this morning. that was quickly followed by this tweet from president trump. white house counsel don mcgahn will be

according to a person close to mcgahn. mcgahn's anticipated departure is taking on a greater significance after a bombshell last week from "the new york times" underscored the extent of his cooperation with special counsel robert mueller. a report that rattled trump's lawyers who have admitted since to "the new york times" they don't know what mcgahn may have shared with mueller in testimony that is now believed to be critical to mueller's obstruction probe. the president nonetheless praising mcgahn this afternoon in the oval office. >> he's a good man, very good man. don? excellent guy. yeah, don mcgahn is a really good guy. been with me for a long time. privately before this, he represented me. he's been here now, it will be almost two years and a lot of affection for don. he'll be moving on probably the private sector, maybe the private sector. and he'll do very well. but he's, he's done an exleapt job. >> any concern about what he said to the mueller probe? >> no, not at all. >> -- >> i knew he was going. i had to appr

to mcgahn. while it had been an open secret inside the white house, mcgahn planned to leave after kafanca n kavanaugh's -- >> shortly after the inauguration, it was acting attorney general sally yates who says she warned mcgahn about national security adviser michael flynn and his contacts with russia. michael flynn, of course, eventually pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi about contacts with the russian ambassador. and in march 2017 the fbi says it gave mcgahn derogatory information about then staff secretary rob porter. porter didn't resign until almost a year later, when the allegations became public. just this month, mcgahn has cooperated extensively with the special counsel's probe. trump's announcement today prompted dismay including chuck grassley who wrote,@realdonald trump. i hope it's not true mcgahn is leaving white house counsel you can't let that happen. even as reporters peppered a stoic mcgahn with questions about the mueller investigation, mcgahn is not without his enemies. pretr

you can't be honest, and don mcgahn is out. here they are in the middle of an attempt to confirm a supreme court justice. don mcgahn is the key player in that, and the president decides to publically fire him on twitter today. >> right. but he made a point on twitter of saying not until after that supreme court justice is confirmed because that's going to be -- that's mcgahn's legacy from trump's point of view. that's why so many people stay with trump, right, that they put up with all this nonsense we're talking about because they're going to get him from their point of view the supreme court justice they want. it is going to make the confirmations which were already going to be interesting, to say the least, more interesting. but, you know, he's not going to let the game go until that happens. >> and, jill, we have a report about in this same report that talks about the president wishing he had abbie lowell as his personal defense lawyer, criminal defense lawyer, he has such a terrible eye for legal talent and legal capabilit

mcgahn laid out how mr.rump tried to ensure control of the investigation, giving investigators a mix of information, both potentially damaging and favorable to the president. what do you make of that, glenn? is it enough of a case for obstruction? how solid does obstruction have to be before you can bring a charge like that? >> alex, no one piece of the puzzle alone proves obstruction, but i have to tell you, as we continue to get more pieces of the puzzle, every piece tends to fit together with every other piece. as a career prosecutor for over 30 years, i wish i had evidence supporting a conspiracy or obstruction charge as i have seen simply reported in the public record here. we can't reach any conclusions yet, but i'll tell you, the evidence of conspiracy and obstruction from this career prosecutor's perspective is really becoming overwhelming. >> okay. let's look at the paul manafort trial. the jury has gone into deliberations both thursday and friday without reaching a verdict. now, they come back tomo

mcgahn reportedly refused. that's the leak rachel was just referring to, an act of alleged bureaucratic heroism that found its way to the newspapers. if the story's good enough for them, you can bet it's good enough to tell bob mueller. how does the president feel today about mcgahn telling mueller about the president's private efforts to fire mueller? quite the question. today donald trump says he's not concerned about. while another trump lawyer says he doesn't need to face mueller at all. >> you're not concerned -- >> do you believe the president will eventually sit down with bob mueller based on your experience with him wanting to engage with counsel? >> well, it's no reason for the president to answer questions for mueller. mueller has all the answers. we gave him all the answers. >> now, we do know bob mueller disagrees with what you just heard there because he is pressing for the interview, the white house counsel, though, isn't always a job that defines the legitimacy or the future of a presidency, part

since don mcgahn won't do it. now don mcgahn is leaving. it appears from follow-up reporting tonight in the "new york times"ing that don mcgahn is being fired from the white house as opposed to him resigning on his own terms. there was an axios.com story early this morning which said mcgahn was looking to leave, maybe sometime this fall, wanted to get through the stuff with the kavanaugh supreme court nomination, he was starting to think of -- the "times" reports the president pounced on that story as an opportunity beaking to fire don mcgahn. over twitter. naturally. much to don mcgahn's surprise. "the president's tweet was precipitated by a report on the axios website ta don mcgahn planned to leave after cab anyhow's supreme court nomination process concluded. mr. trump had grown tired of seeing reports he might leave according to people familiar with his thinking. and he decided to take away any wiggle room. he decided to take away any wiggle room he might have. as "the washington post" puts it tonight? >> trump's announcement of mcgahn'

mcgahn, the president tut put i. he is driving trump's successful efforts to fill the courts with conservative judges. >> that, includes, okay, supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh mcgahn escorted to capitol hill today. though reporters were interested in a different topic. >> why did you take so long to the special counsel, mr. mcgahn. >> were you afraid the president would betray you? >> do you regret that decision? >> will you continue to comploo i? >> have you briefed the white house on everything you told the special counsel? >> mcgahn has been involved in most of the key events in mueller's obstruction probe as far as we know, including michael flynn's early ouster of the white house and getting jeff sessions to recuse himself the firing of james comey. it was mcgahn you will recall according to "time's" who threatened to have mueller fired, in fact, ordered him to do so. the "time's" lays out how se is controlling the investigation. he kaugsd investigators that he never saw the president go beyond highs legal

mcgahn testified. mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. >> i think he's going to be a very, very valuable witness. if you're an investigator, you're a prosecutor, you want somebody who's been in the room when the key discussions happened, and that's don mcgahn. >> the white house counsel spending hours being questioned. plus, clashing over security. former cia director john brennan now considering legal action after his clearance is revoked. >> i think this is yet another example of his egregious use of power and authority. if my clearances and my reputation as i'm being pulled through the mud now, if that's the price we're going to pay to prevent donald trump from doing this against other people, to me it's a small price to pay. >> it was my view at the time that he and others in the obama administration were politicizing intelligence. i think that's a very dangerous thing to do. he couldn't be in the position he's in of criticizing president trump and his so-called collusion with russia unle

it may be because of don mcgahn and don mcgahn only that robert mueller wasn't fired one year ago, and same thing with jeff session. so are you concerned with the absence of don mcgahn might mean? >> yes, of course. i think mcgahn has been a source of imposing the rule of law on the white house. look, i'm not defending trump. i'm not defending his actions. i've only expressed my professional scholarly views on what i think the law is and what i think the constitution says. i want to explain one thing. there are three kinds of privileges. the president does not have a lawyer/client privilege with the white house counsel, but he does have executive privilege with the white house counsel. and then there is a third area that is very much in doubt that the courts have generally ruled against that is if you are a subject of an investigation, you can have a joint defense privilege with other people, and some have tried to raise that about white house counsel. but the courts have generally ruled against it. but the president and his legal team made a decision to waive executive privilege. and

mcgahn's testimony. so mr. mcgahn answered the special counsel team's questions folsomly and honestly as any person interviewed by federal investigators must. the big question we're asking today is was it a good strategy to let the white house lawyer talk to mueller? joining me is msnbc news white house correspondent kristen welker, white house reporter for the "associated press" jonathan lamire, ken vogel and editor and chief of "lawfare" at brookings institution ben wittes. onthan and ben are msnbc analysts and contributors. kristen welker, let's start with you with the white house. the president's team is trying to say that donald trump knew all along that mcgahn was going to testify and they weren't worried about it. the president is tweeting about this. rudy giuliani tried to, you know, cool it down yesterday on "meet the press" on sunday. but "the new york times" say that trump's lawyers sudden realization, they don't know what don mcgahn told mr. mueller's team, they write mr. mcgahn and mr. burke feared

mcgahn's departure was not unexpected, but he was blind sided by the tweet. having not announced his timetable to leave. we get more from abby phillip at the white house. >> reporter: dave and kaylee, we get the word that he would leave the white house in the near future came as a surprise. even republican senators were surprised donald trump made the decision. mcgahn was expected to leave the white house after the confirmation of brett kavanaugh, the nominee for the supreme court. mcgahn had been at the white house since the very beginning of the trump administration. our sources tell us he has had an estranged relationship with president trump for over a year now. in that period of time, mcgahn has also become a witness in special counsel robert mueller's russia probe. president trump responding to the news that he broke himself over twitter had nothing but praise for mcgahn when we spoke to him at the white house on wednesday. listen. >> excellent guy. don mcgahn is a really good guy. been with me for a long time. privately before this. he represented me.

. >>> plus, the mcgahn interviews. what white house counsel's cooperation with the mueller team could really mean for the president. >>> and we're on verdict watch in the manafort trial. >> how's your client feeling today? >> he's feeling really good. >> this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. >>> good evening and welcome to "mtp daily," i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd. we don't know what the president knew about his campaign ties to russia. we don't know what the president's team's reasons are for not telling the truth about the trump tower meeting. we don't know what the white house lawyer told special counsel robert mueller's team during 30 hours of conversations. and we don't know what mueller's investigation will ultimately find. but we do know this. president trump's team is trying to discredit a federal investigation and condition his supporters to discount any of its findings. how? by saying truth isn't truth, and what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. and by calling

mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. i don't need to know much more about that. >> reporter: dowd resigned from the legal team five months ago. chris christie blasting the decision to allow mcgahn to sit down with the special counsel voluntarily. >> this shows what a sea level legal team the president had in cobb and dowd. once you waive that privilege and turn over the documents, don mcgahn has no choice but to go in and answer everything. every question they can ask him. this is not in the president's interest. >> reporter: jake, in light of the new reporting from about don mcgahn, the white house is trying to portray the relationship with the president ironclad and the truth is it is tortured than athat and two months without seeing each other face to face and since there's an opening on the supreme court, we are seeing with statement saying they have a great relationship, a statement we're told president trump dictated to sarah sanders for reporters and see the white house trying to get on top of this narrative. >> w

to fire mueller mcgahn said no he threatened to quit. knowing that that had transpired, to not bring up maybe we should question the amount of time and what mcgahn is going to be saying when he speaks to the prosecutors, it's a bit head scratching. >>> there is a lot more news. the president now also telling bloomberg news that the entire russia probe in his words represents an illegal investigation. strong words from the president. we'll be right back. if you have psoriasis, ... little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats moderate to severe plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla . it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with... ...an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have  a history of depression or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may st

now don mcgahn is leaving. it appears that a follow up report in the "new york times" is don mcgahn is being fired as opposed to hmm leaving on his own. axios report this morning said he was looking to leave sometime this fall, wanted to get through with the kavanaugh supreme court nomination. the "time's" pounced on that story to basically fire don mcgahn of 26th, naturally, much to don mcgahn's surprise. the president's tweet was precipitated by a report on the axios website that mcgahn planned to leave after the confirmation of the process. mr. trump grew tired of seeing reports that he might leave, according to people with his thinking, he decided to take away any wiggle room, he might have. as the washington post puts it tonight, quote, trump's announcement of mcgahn's department cure came as a surprise, comma, including to mcgahn, he was not aware that trump planned to send the tweet. apparently, that is how the white house counsel got fired today. 11 days after we learned of the extent of his cooperation

he doesn't know if he could trust mcgahn. i would have to think his golf game is terrible. >> don mcgahn has cooperated extensively with robert mueller's investigation. the fury toward the russia investigation and the ways he urged mr. mcgahn to respond to it. a clear view of the president's most intimate moments with his lawyer. here with more is former federal prosecutor, doug burns. what a morning here. an attorney was quoted saying a prosecutor would, quote, kill for this type of cooperation. how unusual is this? >> well, you break it down into political, legal and public relations and media, seriously, because they are different discussions. the politics, you have talked about. legally speaking, the problem with the story, honestly, it's accurate, but subject to misinterpretation especially those who aren't well versed in federal criminal investigations. the point is, early on, under tye cobb and the early lawyers, they made a decision to be cooperative and not rely on attorney/client privileges, therefore, mcgahn went i

question is, what has don mcgahn revealed? plus, as president trump threatens to revoke more security clearances, he's now daring the former cia director john brennan to sue. this as dozens and dozens of former intelligence officials unite against the president's moves. and george orwell's "1984" was fiction, but rudy giuliani with a new assault on facts by saying, quote, truth isn't truth. but up first, fury and fear over at the white house. the fear stems from uncertainty over what the white house counsel don mcgahn told special counsel robert mueller's investigators. "the new york times" reports that mcgahn spent 30 hours in interviews with the mueller team. the fury is evident in the prthprt president's increasingly angry attacks on mueller and his investigators. in a tweet today, the president referred to the, quote, disgraced and discredited bob mueller and his whole group of angry democrat thugs. he went on to say, quote, mueller's angry dems are looking to impact the election. they are a national disgrace. let's go to

jef jeff, first to you, we learn some very interesting things about mcgahn, first of all that mcgahn allegedly referred to the president as king kong do to his outbursts. >> didn't mcgahn himself isn't commenting, but the white house press secondary put out a statement saying the president and don mcgahn have a great relationship and that the president values his expertise. and to be clear, don mcgahn has done a lot of work on policy issues that could become legacy issues for donald trump. he spearheaded the effort to appoint the next judiciary, he spearheaded public relations. but these two men have something of a strange relationship, they don't often meet one-on-one, and the fact that don mcgahn is referring to the president as king kong, at the very least he's no fan of the president's violent temper and outbursts. >> we learn that mcgahn spoke to mueller for at least 30 hours. mcgahn may have been able to help mueller understand what was in the president's mind. do you think that mueller didn't learn anything from mcgahn in those 30 hours? >> if you take trump's word for it, the

and then lastly, he's got mcgahn.s not including all the other witnesses that we've heard of, don. general flynn, manafort, who's eventually going to flip. i bet you 3-1 that he's going to wind up -- he's not going to go jail -- >> why do you say that? >> look, he's facing life imprisonment. he's got another retrial on the counts that the jury hung on, 11-1. and then he's got the case coming up in d.c. within 30 days. look, mueller's not going to back off. mueller's not all of a sudden not going to say, oh, let me just start going easy on manafort. they're going to keep pounding manafort until he submits, and submission means cooperation against the president with the mueller team. >> so shan, i also want to get, talk more about paul manafort's case with you, because mueller's team wants to review e-mails between manafort and one of his former lawyers, messages that would typically be protected by attorney/client privilege? do you think the special counsel has a real shot at getting these documents? >> i think they do

yeah, don mcgahn is a really good guy. been with me for a long time, privately before this he represented me. he's been here now it will be almost two years. >> any concern about what you said to the mueller team? >> no, not at all. not at all. i knew he was going also. i had to approve it. so we didn't claim executive -- no, i don't have to be aware. we have -- we do everything straight. we do everything by the book. don is an excellent guy. >> only when we learned about mcgahn's interview, sources told cnn that trump was in fact unnerved and rattled that mcgahn never provided a full readout of what he had told the special counsel. this is key, because mcgahn is at the center of several incidents that mueller is looking into, including trump's attempt to fire the special counsel last year. according to "the new york times," trump tried to force mcgahn to fire mueller, but ultimately backed down when mcgahn refused to carry out the president's order. abby philip is out front live at the white house tonight. abby, mcgahn ap

don mcgahn, are you listening?here's no aol gags in the "the new york times" story that don mcgahn is a rat, number one. number two, even if he has given up to the goods they exist, he already did it. any sort of cajoling, anger, surprise by the president, the damage if there is damage to be done is done in the 30 hours. >> most others call john dean as a patriot. is the president defending richard nixon? that seems to be what he's implying in the tweet. going back to the other point about how this sort of all began according to "the new york times" with don mcgahn, he became suspicious allegedly after hearing, overhearing or hearing "the new york times" report that one of the reporters had overheard two of the president's lawyers speaking very loudly at a restaurant about the investigation, about how they differed with don mcgahn on their views as to how the president should proceed and mcgahn is suspicious saying maybe the president's trying to throw me under the bus and thus begins this 30 hours worth of testimo

mcgahn to respond to it. he provided the investigators examining whether mr. trump obstructed justice a clear view of the president's most intimate moments with his lawyer. i want to get straight to cnn's ryan nobles live near the president's golf course in new jersey where he's spending the weekend. ryan, tell us more about mcgahn's role and what kind of information he may be providing. >> reporter: well, ana, this is significant for a number of reasons. now, we knew that don mcgahn had met with the special counsel before but what this "new york times" report is revealing is the extent of these interviews and the role he is playing now as essentially a cooperating witness in the special counsel investigation while still serving as the white house counsel. now, this was actually on the recommendation of donald trump's former criminal lawyers who were -- said that mcgahn should meet with the special counsel because they viewed that the president had nothing to hide, but what "the new york times" is reporting is that don mcgahn and his lawyer were concerned that

they agreed to mcgahn to sit for the conversations and waived attorney/client privilege. they had no idea what don mcgahn would say when he sat down with the special counsel's team. there are few people who have insight into the president's conduct especially with the russia probe for the past year and a half. the white house doesn't know how to handle this and what it could mean for the investigation going forward. dave and christine. >> ryan, thank you. >>> trump attorney rudy giuliani has a new fact style explanation for keeping the president away from robert mueller. listen to what he told nbc about not allowing the special counsel to rush mr. trump to testifying. >> when you tell me he should testify because he is going to tell the truth and not worry. that is funny. it is somebody's version of the truth. not the truth. >> truth is truth. >> truth isn't truth. the president of the united states says i didn't -- >> truth isn't truth? mr. mayor? this is going to become a bad meme. don't do truth isn't truth. >> he said i didn't talk about comey. he said he did. tell me

mcgahn gave to mr. mueller's investigators a sense of the president's mindset in the days leading to the firing of mr. comey. how the white house handled the firing of former national security adviser michael t. flynn and how mr. trump repeatedly ber rated mr. sessions, tried to get him to assert control over the investigation and threatened to fire him. don mcgahn's cooperation is central to possible obstruction of justice by the president. in a follow up report after its original story "the new york times" reported that president trump's lawyers don't know how much don mcgahn told the special prosecutors. mr. trump's lawyers realized on saturday they had not been provided a full accounting after "the new york times" published an article describing mcgahn's cooperati cooperation. mr. trump's lawyers never asked for a complete description of what mr. mcgahn had said, according to a person close to the president. yesterday in what was for reasons we will get to later rudy giuliani's most spectacularly ri

president insists he let mcgahn do it. now, to what extense he's cooperated is just now being revealed publicly. our ryan nobles is traveling with president trump and picks it up from here. >> reporter: president trump is reacting to the news that don mcgan, the white house counsel has sat down with a series of interviews with the special counsel robert mueller saying that it was his idea, that he had no problem with mcgahn doing so because he has nothing to hide. "the new york times" reporting that mcgahn spent more than 30 hours with the special counsel revealing everything he knows about president trump's role in their investigation and perhaps his attempts to obstruct justice as they try to find out information as to whether or not the president's campaign was clueding with russia during the 2016 campaign. and make so mistake, there's a lot that don mcgahn knows about the last year of the administration, he was there during the lead-up of the firing of fbi director james comey, knows all about the president's comments

mcgahn is a seasoned lawyer. he's not going to lie to the special counsel, as the "times" report suggests he was worried about being set up as the fall guy. >> i think that gets to the question of, is this good lawyering or is it bad lawyering? maybe it's good lawyering in the sense that you made everyone available to recount anything the special counsel might want to know about potentially collusion, about potentially obstruction of justice. so we are going to use that as a fire wall to insist you cannot speak to the president. that's certainly an argument some of the president's previous lawyers have made. on the flip side, everyone has now been in. they've now shared their version of events. the special counsel may have a better case than we think about obstruction. they may know what the president did, what the president lied about, what motivated his actions, and they may be using all of that for an interview, just waiting to catch the president in a lie, waiting to confront him with the evidence they have.

don mcgahn is a really good guy. >> cnn's own reporting is that the fact that mcgahn and the presidentionship, some of it bubbled over and i understand that the "new york times" is report thagt preside the president wanted to get rid of him for some time. >> and the question for me, how did mcgahn last this long. we know the legal stresses that this president puts them under i think it is amazing. i think he should get the pick confirmed and get the heck out of there. the question is who on earth could play that this role. because aside from the whole russian collusion case, there are other major legal struggle tsz goings going on, people looking at the trump foundation, the trump organization to potential legal conflicts that impact jared and ivanka. so this is not only will that lawyer have to deal with impeachment, they will have to keep that madness straight. >> mcgahn famously refused the president's order to fire robert mueller. with mcgahn gone, does that put mueller in greater danger? >> that is hard to say. because if emmet flood replaces him, he is someone who has been involv

don mcgahn sitting down for 30 hours with the special counsel.sident's lawyers did not get a full debrief from him about what he told the special counsel. donald trump is saying via twitter, that is just transparency. he allowed don mcgahn and others to talk to the special counsel. could this be a problem for donald trump? >> if you are the president of the united states and your white house attorney is going in and cooperating with the special counsel, you are probably worried. trump is saying this is transparent. i encouraged him to go and cooperate with the special counsel. "the new york times" is reporting that mcgahn offered insight into the parts of the russia probe that are at the heart of the matter. some of the stuff the special counsel may not have learned about had mcgahn not cooperated. we heard that the white house doesn't know what mcgahn told the special counsel. i think the president is probably worried about this. you see it in his twitter feed. railing on mcgahn would never rat. >> the president could have claimed executive priv

it's not just mcgahn. it's the people that were working with mcgahn. they were trying to keep on top of all of the judicial nominations that the president put forth. they did a great job with that. but now as this investigation, the special counsel's investigation gets closer to some sort of conclusion or resolution, that office is going to be incredibly busy. i do think it's interesting if they bring flood in to be white house counsel, you are now bringing the defense of the special counsel's investigation into the white house. what don mcgahn had been able do is keep that separate. that's no longer the case. the white house will now be enmeshed in defending the president in connection with the special counsel's investigation because one of his main lawyers may move into that position. it's going to be a hectic time. that's the last thing the white house needs at this point. >> that's right. there's a big difference between being the president's personal lawyer as opposed to being the white house counsel whose responsibility it is to protect the presi

what do you make of don mcgahn's departure?r the president and his legal team going forward? >> two things can be true at the same time. first thing is that don mcgahn sat down for 30 hours with the special counsel's office, and you don't typically do that unless the special counsel is interested in what you have to say. the second true thing is that donald trump may actually believe that don mcgahn has nothing damaging about him to say. those two things may be true. however, what trump may be ignoring is as an observer and as a lawyer don mcgahn may have seen and heard things that are significant to him but not significant to the president, who doesn't seem to take a tremendous amount of interest in the minutae of legal dealers. >> that's interesting when it comes to the role of don mcgahn in this. it is no secret that they butted heads in the firing of manafort. but when it comes to the president versus the personal donald trump, is that where you see it is leading up to, the 30-hours of voluntary testimony? do you think it i

mcgahn's testimony so mr. mcgahn answered the special counsel team's questions honestly as any person interviewed by federal investigators must. so what did he tell mueller? well, we don't know for sure. but "the times" says, quote, mr. mcgahn laid out how mr. trump tried to ensure control of the russia investigation. giving investigators a mix of information both potentially damaging and favorable to the president. mr. mcgahn cautioned to investigators that he never saw mr. trump go beyond his legal authorities, although the limits of executive power are somewhat americay. was it a mistake for trump to allow mcgahn to speak to mueller? depends who you ask. "the times" says mcgahn and his lawyer were, quote, stunned by that decision. quote, mcgahn's attorney, william burke, has explain head told white house advisers he did not appreciate the exposure and it was insane that mr. trump did not fight a mcgahn interview in court. but if you look at the president's tweets over the weekend, he says the reason he didn

that don mcgahn told bob mueller the truth. every single thing that don mcgahn has seen, has heard, has been a witness to, he told the special counsel. i was next door to don mcgahn at the national republican congressional committee. he was my next door neighbor of i've known don for years. i like don mcgahn. as he good hair, a careful lawyer. don mcgahn is not getting disbarred or going to jail for donald trump. what the trump people don't understand is this. he is not the president's personal attorney. he is the white house counsel. he is an assistant to the president. he is a commissioned officer. he doesn't work for donald trump. he works for us. he works for the american people. >> the president may also be troubled to their michael cohen case may be approaching some sort of determination. the president's former personal attorney is reportedly about to face charges for over $20 million in bank fraud. nbc news is reporting that multiple people familiar with the investigation say prosecutors could seek the indict cohen by th

mcgahn and mr. burt fear mr. trump was setting up mcgahn to take blame for any wrong doing. they embrace the opening to fully cooperate with mueller in an order to demonstrate am medical g mcgahn has not done anything wrong. egs not the president's attorney lawyer but the office of the presidency, for the white house, paid for by the taxpayers. the fact that he thought that the president may try -- be trying to use him as a scapegoat and that that changed his own legal strategy, concerning to the white house? >> reporter: i think it's very worry some to the white house. and actually, that's very hard situation for mcgahn to be in but as an ethical matter, seems to me he has some conflicting loyalties there. and not necessarily a true conflict of interest in that his loyalty lies to the white house not president trump. but certainly if he's concerned that he's being set up, i'm not sure how he can zealously advocate for his client meaning the white house. so that raises a question whether he should have stepped aside at that point. >> but he didn't and we'll get into that mor

about it, he told mcgahn to deny it and mcgahn had to say this. in one episode the president told me the white house counsel don mcgahn should issue a statement denying the firing in january. he told investigators the president once asked him to fire the special counsel robert mueller. mr. mcgahn never released the statement and later had to remind the president that he had indeed asked mr. mcgahn to see that mr. mueller was dismissed, the people said. >> look, this is a president who is incapable of keeping a story straight for more than a day. he changes his story and changes his motivations and actions all the time. i think more broadly, just look at the tool kit with which donald trump constructed success in business and politics. he used payoffs. he used fixers. he used ndas, secrecy, right? these are all the tools he used. they are all crumbling around him. he can't enforce the ndas. his lawyers and fixers are testifying or cooperating against him. and he can't buy his way into cooperation with some of the people who are against him. and his

where is don mcgahn? i think common sense would dictate that if mr. mcgahn -- he is not mr. trump's personal lawyer. the white house is its own person. mr. mcgahn represents the office of the white house, but the point is -- think about it. if mr. mcgahn had said something incriminating or something that was really harmful to mr. trump do we think he would still have a job in the white house? >> the president doesn't know exactly what mr. mcgahn said to the special counsel's team. >> perhaps he would have resigned. >> the "new york times" says based on what they are hearing from the many people they had been talking to that mcgahn told mueller's teams about actions and trump's obsession with pull precipitation -- putting a loyalist in charge. how does this help the president? >> this is not -- we keep talking about fake news. this is really old news. there was nothing new in the "new york times" article. there was nothing news breaking about it. there was no secret that don mcgahn and a number of other white house officials were interviewed by mueller's team. part of that wa

another trump aide is heading for the exit, this time white house counsel don mcgahn. and a dangerous heat wave in the northeast forces many schools to close. but first, the headlines in 60 seconds. >> the state of arizona saying goodbye to john mccain today, holding a memorial for the longtime senator at the state capitol. >> this is a very, very emotional moment for the entire mccain family. >> white house counsel don megahn is leaving. >> this all comes less than two weeks after mcgahn sat down with special counsel robert mueller. >> president trump confirmed the news himself. >> he's a good man, very good man. >> but mcgahn did not know the pesident would be announcing his departure today. >> an historic upset in the democratic primary for governor in florida. >> andrew gillum becomes the acrst black nominee for governor from either major party. gillum will face off against ron desantis, who had the endorsement of president trump. >> oh, the heat's on. >> millions of people under excessive heat warnings. heat index over 100 degrees for all these big cities. >> it w

i'm told mcgahn and the president have had several conversations about this tentative plan for mcgahn to head out. he called his staff together at the office, had a conversation with them about his future and what the expectation was moving forward. who will replace mcgahn as white house counsel? let me just say the president called him a good guy. said mcgahn will have a lot of luck in the private sector. subtext there, maybe he'll make some money, more than he might make working for the government. who might replace don mcdpgahnc? right now there's a lot of speculation about emmet flood, the attorney brought in to work with the mueller investigation and manage the flow there along with mcgahn who has been leading that process. sarah sanders, when we asked her about it this morning didn't confirm that. she said he's well respected, well liked inside the white house, but there is no succession plan just yet. i can't talk about some of the names now, i've heard other names as well. this is something the president knows is happening. the relationship that he had with mcgahn has cooled i

don mcgahn and his attorney, questioned, let's say, the wisdom of the white house of allowing don mcgahn to speak, thinking they should have fought it out in court. what do you make of this decision? >> look. it is extraordinary and very, very unusual. normally, the relationship between anybody and their lawyer is sacrosanct and it's controversy and that generally also applies to public officials as well, although there is some question about whether it applies in the -- in the grand jury context. but to allow an attorney to cooperate with federal investigators, especially the beginning of an investigation, is really extraordinary and it seems to have been motivated by the president and his legal team's desire to try to get this thing, this investigation completed, you know, very quickly, right away. and so it was this extraordinary action in allowing the white house counsel to be interviewed by the government. >> errol, listen to more from rudy giuliani here. >> now, the president wants to testify. the president wants to be open and transparent. otherwise, he wouldn't have encouraged 30