and he and mcnamara discuss and he kind of gets himself to understanding what mcnamara had to say. there's no reason to leave all military advisers there who are teaching the vietnamese how to fly spotter planes when it's not necessary for them to be there. so let's get them out more people in more there. it's creating problems. him it's it's it's painting him kind of as a toady of the americans again, we come to look like the french and all that so johnson johnson is never thrilled about it but policy remains on the books and it is only events in south vietnam. take a turn. the worse in december of 1963. but then january february 1964, that you start to see not just comments in the press say that the states is dropping the plan to withdraw by 65, but then you start see comments from the policy curves themselves and even cite this one particular policymaker william bundy mcgeorge his brother, who was more responsible for that than anybody in writing mcnamara taylor report looks to kashmir by march of 1964 and bob mcnamara will deliver a public address that effect later in the month

and you can see in magnum hear it in mcnamara's voice. and the question is, how did he reconcile that at the time worked with peter and produced in retrospect, which a very brave and important publication, which in some ways changed everything about how we understand what government officials think. but prior to that moment, he was on the ground acquiescing to these these from johnson. have you did you talk to him about that and have a sense of how he lived with that? like like brian, we talk that's all we talked about for a decade. i mean, i think part of it is i think he really thought that he could he could control rash or impulses better from the inside, the outside. so if you you know, if you did a venn diagram of the kind of like the troop that westmoreland was making, that mcnamara having, i mean, i think he thinks that was the way that he was trying to manage this crisis. i think in to borrow a title he thinks that management wasn't always as successful because johnson didn't want it to be successful. i mean, that's bundy left gov

but johnson chooses to listen instead to secretary of defense robert mcnamara and mcnamara doesn't know nearly as much about the military as most of the hawks. but he had been an automobile executive and he studied economics, and he tries to apply economic game theory, vietnam and tries to use that as sort of a conflict management tool. and he argues that limits that we should actually limit ourselves initially so we don't provoke the enemy. and then he will say that these escalatory measures aren't going to really help the situation in the south and that we are going to provoke the chinese and the soviet. it's if we do this. and so he convinces johnson to keep turning down these requests we now know from the benefit of 50 plus years of history that in fact, mcnamara was wrong on both of these counts. these measures would have done great service to the united states and the chinese and the soviets had no intention of getting involved in the left. anatoly dobrynin, who was the soviet ambassador here, and he wrote in his memoirs about how the soviets the last thing they wanted to do was t

he's mcnamara will not. you know whether you say he voluntarily or he's let loose by the president, which is the more typical situation that doesn't till 1968 the beginning right in the middle of the tet offensive february 68. so here's an idea that says maybe this is not working and then we get the the ultimate you know, the idea that 1966 we're seeing results 1967 maybe this working the military's very optimistic this campaign and how it's working and then you have in january of 1968 a major attack along all of south vietnam. this is mainly led by the nlf, the vietcong that are in the south certainly supported and supplied by north vietnam. and there are regular vietnamese troops here. this demonstrates that the even the operation low level of infiltration hasn't worked. and certainly you haven't enticed north vietnam in any way to. stop what they're doing. so the tet offensive is kind of a you know it's a major issue for the entire war. war but it's certainly a turning point for the air campaign in the no

but johnson chooses to listen instead to secretary of defense robert mcnamara and mcnamara doesn't know nearly as much about the military as most of the hawks. but he had been an automobile executive and he studied economics, and he tries to apply economic game theory, vietnam and tries to use that as sort of a conflict management tool. and he argues that limits that we should actually limit ourselves initially so we don't provoke the enemy. and then he will say that these escalatory measures aren't going to really help the situation in the south and that we are going to provoke the chinese and the soviet. it's if we do this. and so he convinces johnson to keep turning down these requests we now know from the benefit of 50 plus years of history that in fact, mcnamara was wrong on both of these counts. these measures would have done great service to the united states and the chinese and the soviets had no intention of getting involved in the left. anatoly dobrynin, who was the soviet ambassador here, and he wrote in his memoirs about how the soviets the last thing they wanted to do was t

he also talked to robert mcnamara. now mcnamara is in sort of bad odor because of vietnam, but ford and mcnamara knew each other because, of course, mcnamara had been a whiz kid at ford motor company before he became secretary. they they each other. in fact, the that gerald ford was on the warren commission was because robert mcnamara and dean rusk, lbj secretary of state, told president, if you want a republican who is serious, who can be trusted, you ought to consider gerald. well, anyway and in the middle of what became the cuban crisis, ford obviously top secret. you know, is trying to do his best to ignite a sense of urgency at the pentagon and to some degree at the white house in terms of stepping up the surveillance flights. they were stepped up in after the whole thing was over. mccollum privately credited ford with a major part in making certain that the kennedy administration had the evidence, the photographic evidence that it needed to take the u.n. and worldwide and that, of course, turned out to be essenti

so so we feed the body count and then mcnamara in d.c. can look at all of this and then look at the numbers from, that side and that side. and then american numbers. and then you can reach like a magic formula at one point where you'll be able to declare to declare victory. and that's also, by the way, the problem with body counts, right? so so african american combat unit, you get steak one night if you have a good body, right? so so maybe you'll be tempted to inflate the body count. right. or else you happen to have killed accidentally someone who was a civilian to avoid the repercussions might say, well, that was actually enemy combatant. so so that's the problem with with with all this, right. when you rely on numbers, they can be easily manipulated, whatever reasons and give you a completely distorted picture of what's actually going on jake. but basically the tactic was analogous to sort of what were once war of attrition, then kind of. yeah, except as cole was mentioning, there's no front there's no it's just you just kill and then

mcnamara said it's too slow to speed up.thousand people in december before the end of the year. i want people to be taken out in whole parts, and not at random. he demanded. it was this plan for the withdrawal of troops that was approved in in september 1963, kennedy sent secretary of defense mcnomaru and general taylor to saigon. he wanted to use their report as the basis for a formal withdrawal order. kennedy didn't just control the report. in fact, it was prepared under the supervision of bobby kennedy. after 3 days, this news hit the newspapers , his opponents found out about it. and mage. george bundy told kennedy once it was in the papers. you can make everything public and they published decree 263. that's why it appeared at all. and here is what she said in a secret briefing if they will not be able to win, it's a pity, but we had to leave, even if they were then defeated honey, that is, from vietnam even with a bad scenario. but later that month, magician george bundy , the national security adviser, wrote a memoran

the secret, missus mcnamara knows, go light on the calories and heavy on the colors.♪♪ ♪♪ .. given by mr. and mrs. warren woodward who are longtime family friends. the psychedelic declaration in the front yard, they did set the stage for her colorful poolside party. lynda's maid of honor demonstrated texas is not all blue skies. in fact, some of the prayer it's downright abstract. i'll call chuck also been texas is no place to escape the watchful eye of his future father-in-law. ♪ it was a busy texas weekend filled with dinners, parties, and dances in their honors. dallas, houston, san antonio and a cap it off a kitchen shower in austin. linda left room for doubt as to her ability to kitchen accessories she received. >> invention. i'm sure. hopefully when he gets back of a self hungry he will like whatever i fix him. oco when chuck and linda returned to washington they received a different kind of perception. a record snow had transform the nation's capitol into a somewhat premature setting. the weatherman put a damper on chuck's a football but festivities were not sl

and mcnamara that insulted them and said, but i want to tell you one thing. i was far more polite. and then, of course, all that obscenities can imagine easily enough were shouted out. he got back in his car, the crowd parted and he drove away and sent me to vietnam. i say strewn over this. or maybe a week and i wrote to my draft board and said, i wanted to turn in my student deferment, which is in the very sweet secretary wrote me back that, oh, you needn't do that. there's no fear of your going to vietnam on a two as deferment. i said no, that's not the idea. i want to go to vietnam. and then i had a set of appointment and i had to come up with a work plan of what i would do and i had to have an interview back in pennsylvania. so i did all that and went to work for a group that was a predecessor, peace corps, called the international services, and i was, teaching english linguistics and language at a vietnamese universal day. that never happened because the place there is elections that year. and to you and ki, we're going at each other and. the elections never emerged. oh, and t

mcnamara knows. the wife of the secretary of defense invited lynda and mrs. the momentum on the 24th of november at the tell us club chuck and lynda were the guest of honor at the dinner given by mr. mrs. warren woodward who are longtime family friend. the psychedelic decorations in theec front yard may not typify san antonio but they did set the stage for poolside party. skiest some of the prairie was downright abstract. jack also found that texas is no place to escape the watchful eye of his future father-in-law. this is a busy texas weekend filled with tears parties and dances and their honor and san antonio, and f-uppercase-letter, a shower in austin. and lynda left room to cope with the various kitchen accessories that she received. >> i don't know how to cook but i'm sure before and hopefully when i get back, whatever i fix. [inaudible]. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ >> check and lynda returned to washington, they received it a different kind of reception, something and transform the nation's capitol into a setting. the weather may have put a damper on the football wi

mcnamara knows. life -- light on the --and heavy on the bright colors. they invited lyndon mrs.omentum. on the 25th of november at the dallas club chuck window where the guest of honor given by mrs. and mr. warren woodward who are longtime familyan friends. the psychedelic decorations may not typify san antonio but they did set the stage for her poolside party. linda's maid of honor demonstrated that texas is not all blue skies. in fact some of it gets downright abstract. said that to place to escape the watchful eye of his future father-in-law. ♪♪ ♪♪ it was a busy texas weekend filled with dinners parties and dances in their honor. dallas used in san antonio to capped off the kitchen shower in austin. ♪♪ lynda had doubt as to our ability to cope with the various kitchen accessories she vereceived. >> i'm sure -- and hopefully he'll be so hungry hill like everything i fix him. ♪♪ when chuck and under return to washington they received a different kind of reception the records note transform the nation's capital intoso somewhat premature christmas setting. the weather may put a d

freeport mcnamara and. lauren: halliburton down 4%.down fears, they are taking down the producers of metal, oil, you name it, economy slowdown. stuart: would also we got moving today? lauren: roblox snack two analyst upgrades, they like the opportunity use for advertisers. stuart: former cia director john brennan is on capitol hill, sitting for a closed-door interview on the 2020 letter the downplayed the hunter laptop story. david spunt in washington with me now. what can we expect? stuart: we know this will go a couple of hours. it is a transcribed behind closed doors interview but it is significant because john brennan was one of 51 former intelligence officials who signed on to that letter a few weeks before the presidential election. let's get some video, the former cia director walking into the hearing room where that transcribed interview will take place. the producer asked if he had anything to say, brennan signing the letter that proved not to be russian disinformation. in a letter the former intelligence officials downplayed

. >> president hatcher, governor romney, senators mcnamara and hart, congressmen meader and staebler, and other members of the fine michigan delegation, members of the graduating class, my fellow americans.s it is a great pleasure to be here today. this university has been coeducational since 1870, but i do not believe it was on the basis of your accomplishments that a detroit high school girl said, in choosing a college, you first have to decide whether you want a coeducational school or an educational school. [laughing] well, we can find both here at michigan, although perhaps at different hours. [laughing] i came out here today very anxious to meet the michigan student whose father told a friend of mine that his son's education had been a real value. it stopped his mother from bragging about him. [laughing] i have come today from the turmoil of your capital to the tranquility of your campus to speak about the future of your country.ea the purpose of protecting the life of our nation and preserving the liberty of our citizens is to pursue the happiness of our people. our success in

joining us now is kelly mcnamara, senior research and policy analyst with friends of the earth.ional vegetarian the research show about how a plant based diet can affect the environment? that's a great question. thanks so much for asking. and thanks for having me so one way and we talked about carbon foot friends is obviously greenhouse gas emissions, and we've recently heard from the guardian published report today , saying we may hit the 1.5 threshold with the next five years when climates on everyone's minds and ghg emissions on everyone's mind. so there are lots of studies out published in easily available that show you that reducing your meat consumption and meat and dairy consumption. if not eliminating altogether can have a significant impact on your personal footprint. so one study , for example, shows that, uh, a vegan diet has about is about one quarter. the carbon footprint of a typical diet. but even in between, you can have significant impacts, so eating even less meat can have the equivalent impact of, say, driving 5000 miles last year, so there's lots of in betwee

when robert mcnamara himself published in his own book that he knew and they knew the war was going to be a failure and they knew they were making commitments they could not justify. everyone recognized at that time that the government failed them, and i think one of the great consequences of the 1960's is the sense that government must be questioned with skepticism. that we must think carefully about who we elect to these roles because they have power that can be exercised in ways that's not in the best interest of american people. that's probably the greatest take away and that's why the tragedy of afghanistan today is so compelling. because we seem not to have learned that lesson. susan: you said you have become friends with the people who were close friends and michael o'donnell's sister. what was their reaction when you told them, i am going to make this into a book? david: in the first instance, my first conversation was with marcus. he was a retired schoolteacher. i found him living in milwaukie. he was supportive of the idea. he of course believed deeply that michael's story is

was a vietnam correspondent for the washington and post and is the editor of robert mcnamara's. in retrospect. peter, i extend to you a warm welcome to george washington university. way. thank you. hi. looking around, i realize that when we said we were going to start this at 9:00 in the morning on time, we lost the students. those of us who are here, as i look around, have probably very kind of direct experience with the vietnam era. and the vietnam war. war is almost always have a name. there's the revolutionary war. civil war, good war, forgotten war. however, else the vietnam war is portrayed. it's almost always associated with some version of tragic or tragedy, for that is what it was. the american war in vietnam, the years between the early 19 oh sixties and 1973, when the last gi and p.o.w.s left the country still at war, was meant to prevent a communist takeover in southeast asia. barely more than a decade after mao tse-tung communist victory in china and the war in korea, where communists held on to half the korean peninsula. the effect on vietnam itself, north and sout

mcnamara and mcnamara has a lot of reasons why he opposes these methods of escalation and arguing thatnot going to work, that they're going to provoke chinese soviet intervention, particular now we have with the wisdom of 50 years and is more information has come out we have a much better idea of how to assess these alternate options and we know from both the soviets and, the chinese, that in fact, they were not interested in intervening militarily directly in vietnam. they had own problems to deal with. the chinese had gotten burned in korea. they didn't want any part of that. so there were a lot of missed opportunities on the us part because of false fears of the enemy that president nixon will himself. in each these cases at some point in his presidency take action, the incursion to cambodia in 1970, sending the south and he's in laos since 1971 and escalating the bombing in 1972. there is one point i've found one of the more interesting things that i've had no idea about is that in 1967, there is a point where the north vietnamese appear to be on the brink of submission because joh

especially want to thank stephen rodriguez, club starling andr our great author experts whitney mcnamara pete for their hard work, diligence, patience andes inclusiveness. last i want to thank my cochair secretary deborah james and for all the other commissioners and experts last month we wrote an op-ed the era of great power competition is underway and transitioned to t a more dangers level. the unwarranted invasion of ukraine and increasing tensions with washington coupled with moscow's and beijing's closeness evident with almost every week that w passes are proofs that ty aim to change the global rules to serve a their own malevolent aims. many of the world's enjoyed for decades are under increasing threat. the biden administration called this a decisive decade for the largest defense budget ever to meet this challenge. through at least two different administrations now also recognizing these tough times it's undertaken multiple itinitiatives the last several years to maintain the overmatched over russia and especially china and ranging from the personality of the logistics to trainin

before this party, the night before this party, the night before this party, a woman called helen mcnamarato royal lovers who've been-there eager ,- been camping there eager, weeeene— been camping there eager, weewene eew— been camping there eager, waiting for coronation. waiting for the coronation. wnewe— waiting for the coronation. there called— waiting for the coronation. there called what are they eewwee,— there called what are they called, michael? those people, i weee— called, michael? those people, i will-twirlers- called, michael? those people, i will-twirlers .- will call them twirlers. ewweewe— will call them twirlers. twirlers. whenever you arrive , twirlers. whenever you arrive, enew— twirlers. whenever you arrive, enew save— twirlers. whenever you arrive, enew save ee— twirlers. whenever you arrive, enew save we— twirlers. whenever you arrive, they say, are we too early there we enew-we— they say, are we too early there we are. they're too— they say, are we too early there we are. they're too early. is eew— we are. they're too early. is eew wwnew— we are. they're too early. is

i'm going to go straight to my guests now and i am joined by steve mcnamara, who's the general secretary business, their— from going about their business, their lawful— from going about their business, their lawful business, their prevent—keen their lawful business, their- prevent_keep london prevent from helping keep london moving— prevent from helping keep london moving .— prevent from helping keep london moving . many— prevent from helping keep london moving . iionv oi— prevent from helping keep london moving . many of people in moving. many of the people in the moving. many of the people in one-oi— moving. many of the people in one-oi ino— moving. many of the people in the-of the cabs- moving. many of the people in the of the cabs are, you the back of the cabs are, you know,— the back of the cabs are, you know, going— the back of the cabs are, you know, going important know, going to important mooiingn— know, going to important- meetings._places meetings. they're going places inev— meetings. they're going places inov-io— meetings. they're going places inov-iolo-ionl meetings. they're