attorney barbara mcquade, betsy wood you've. heilman has joined the table. barbara, let me ask you, there is also reporting that michael cohen puts other people in the room with donald trump, jr., and the president. could that be the piece that explains were he was willing to dangle this out there? could that be something that is of interest or of value if he can paint a picture and offer up the names of other witnesses that could say that, yeah, donald trump knew about this meeting? >> yes, very much so. in fact, if you listen to rudy giuliani when he's using the word lie, lie, lie over and over again, one of the things he says that is important is uncorroborated. the key that a prosecutor would want to do in a witness like michael cohen is corroborate him. one way you can do it is by not calling him at all, but the other people. he can provide information that a, b and c were in the room when this happened. it could be that that's very helpful information. but that robert mueller ends up calling as a witness person a, b or c. in addition, there can be all

i'm thinking about death. >> barbara mcquade, let me bring you up to speed with breaking news.t federal prosecutors have released the names of people slated to testify in paul manafort's upcoming trial. many have ties to firms manafort did business with. rick gates is on this list. he was manafort's former business partner. he's now cooperating witness in the mueller probe. he's pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate. it excludes manafort's son-in-law. some people thought he might end up on that list. he's been ensnared in all this. what do you make of the fact that this is a 35-person list of witnesses who can presumably testify to manafort's crimes? >> so, 35 names are all the people that the government might call as witnesses, they have to put them on the list that they want to. usually like it's pared down to who actually gets called. some will likely be custodians of records who testify briefly to authenticate documents. this is very much a document case about bank fraud and tax returns. the star witness here will no doubt be rick gates. i'm sure all eyes will be on him. i

your reaction to that narrative, barbara mcquade? >> yeah, i don't know that it diminishes his value in any way, brian. it sounds like from what's been reported, he is engaging in this transaction with president trump to serve as his lawyer. it may be that this is also not part of the attorney-client privilege because they're committing some sort of crime together. but i don't know that it in any way diminishes michael cohen. i think one big mystery here is who is the person who has released this. the only people who knew about this are the judge, the fbi, the trump team and the cohen team. so one of them is the one who released this. i suppose matt knows the answer to this. but was it the cohen team or was it the trump team? and was it to get us to be talking about it instead of what was happening in helsinki? i'm not sure that it does in any way diminish what cohen has said, but i think it does perhaps distract from a more damaging narrative to president trump. >> okay, matt. to you, i happen to know that the heart of the matter as

. >> joining me now is barbara mcquade. can i ask you to react to what you heard mr. giuliani say? strong accusations there. >> the more we hear from rudy giuliani, the more it's clear that his role is to be the public relations lawyer as opposed to the legal adviser. you know, the suggestion that the investigation is tainted, i think he's referring to former fbi agent peter strzok, or the agent that was formally involved in the investigation, who has been off the investigation for over a year. you know, robert mueller is the lead investigator here, who was appointed by rod rosenstein, who himself was appointed by president trump. so the idea that this group is viciously out to get the president, i think, is nonsensical and is really, instead, a pr campaign, as opposed to reflecting reality. >> okay. let's look at what rudy giuliani is saying with regard to having his legal as opposed to pr hat on. and that is that special counsel robert mueller needs to prove factual basis for the investigation and that his client's testimony is essential to completing the probe. so, is mueller le

barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney in michigan, thanks to all. >>> this major breaking story in the middle of the latest string of controversies this week. peter just mentioned some of them. president trump revealing on twitter his plans for a second meeting with vladimir putin in washington. so this is worth playing again, trump's own director of national intelligence clearly knew absolutely nothing about these plans, which, by the way, had clearly been in the works because the president said he had instructed john bolton to make the arrangements. >> we have some breaking news. the white house has announced on twitter that vladimir putin is coming to the white house in the fall. >> say that again? >> vladimir putin coming to the -- >> did i hear you? >> yeah, yeah. >> okay. that's gonna be special. >> that's gonna be special. well, that reaction and some other things that dan coats had to say apparently raising concerns within the west wing. "the washington post" reports white house aides are worried that tru

and barbara mcquade is a former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. i want to start with michael. this is a hell of a story because it talks about how we thought at the time that rosenstein was doing what the president wanted him to do, but not what he thought was really the whole story. >> rosenstein had been deputy attorney general for a week and a half when this happens. the president wanted to send this letter to jim comey that said why he wanted to get rid of him. the white house counsel saw it, don mcgahn. he said, this is not a good idea. we need to come up with a cleaner reason for this. the president's letter was rambling. it went on and on. and they did also mention russia, the russia investigation. so mcgahn brings in sessions and rosenstein. rosenstein offers to write this memo. the memo is ultimately the main argument the white house uses to explain the comey firing. they stand on the white house lawn the night of the firing, and they read from the letter and explain to people that comey had to go because he was too harsh on hillary clint

joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney now an msnbc contributor. still with us here. >>> barbara, let me start with you if i can very quickly. this certainly looks like a direct challenge to the president from michael cohen and his team. we read their language, but what should we read into this? what is the message they're trying to deliver to the white house and to rudy giuliani right now? >> really aggressive tactic by lanny davis, i think, to go after the president like that and rudy giuliani. but i think as chuck said earlier, what rudy giuliani is doing is pure theater. it's pure public relations. he says things like there is no evidence of any criminal activity between michael cohen and president trump. that's because the attorney/client privilege review is still going on. the southern district of new york does not yet have its arms around all the evidence so they can assess it and decide whether there should be any charges filed. that's not public information. he makes assertions about things that can't be proven untrue because they're not y

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." >>> i am joined by legal contributor, barbara mcquad. and juliet sorensen. and former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi. barbara, let me start with you. what are the potential legal risks for donald trump? >> it depends on the context of this recording. and all of the other facts that the fbi might know of this case. prosecutors might think of pieces of evidence as pieces of a puzzle when you look at other things in context, other correspond en, you can begin to fill in. this could be evidence of campaign finance violations and if there was some scheme to defraud karen mcdougal, there could be a fraud charges. there could be money laundering charges. really going to depend on the other facts. but significant. i think it is significant that i think it is significant that there is this recording. because it suggests that if there is one recording, perhaps there are others. and the fbi no doubt wants to get their hands on those and take a look at them. >> if the feds have a recording, and maybe other recordings, does that increase or decreas

joining me now barbara mcquade. on this issue of more resources. where this investigation is and where it may be going. >> i can think of three possible reasons, one is that he has big charges coming. a second theory and maybe more likely is that he has a lot on his plate. july trial of paul manafort coming up. motions for discovery. and the third reason is there may be parts of this case that are more tangential and might once he closes up shop as special counsel can be farmed out. so those are three possibilities. >> the issue of trump talking to prosecutors, it is now july 5th, how much time can jewthey strin this out. >> moving the goal post. at some point robert mueller is going to have to make a decision on how much does he want this testimony. does he serve a subpoena on the president or let him move on. voluntary sit down so they can avoid what many people describe as a constitutional crisis. if you were to subpoena president, we might have that constitutional crisis, a strange scenario ordering a judge to arrest the president. he may at so

. >> ben wittist, and barbara mcquade and thank you for staying with us with that left turn from the manafort jury. and thank you for that update on the story. >>> and now, moving on to the a breaking news and this time sexual allegations against les moon vez. they say they will not pursue one of the allegations against him a. woman told los angeles police that he had abused her on three occasion in the 1980s. prosecutors have declined due to statute of limitations. the announcement comes after the "new yorker" published an article in which six women alleged sexual misconduct and it is not known if the woman in this case is among those who spoke to the "new yorker." joining me is the senior editor claire atkinson and what more do you know about this? >> well, another bad day for one of the most powerful men in hollywood. today, we are hearing this news about the lady who apparently in february went to the police and told them about a couple of incidents involving leslie moonves who is the ceo of cbs. and she raised the seriousness of the allegations against the ceo, and we heard abou