he thought, excuse me, chuck, that's very noble, you're out of your mind, you're insane.you have a family, you have three kids, you cannot go to jail. and chuck said, no, i, i'm going to -- i'm not going to disobey what i think is the right thing to do. i'm going to trust god. so he literally refuses the plea bargain and goes to jail. anybody who thinks it was a country club, read his book, "born again." his life was threatened, it was awful. then when he gets out of jail, something very similar, he says i'm going to give up a lucrative career. think of martha stewart. she gets out of jail, does she ever mention jail? no, you want to move on. chuck says i'm going to spend the rest of my life going into prisons, bringing my faith into prisons, bringing hope to prisoners, bringing justice, reform. he found something called prison fellowship. i had the privilege of working for prison fellowship. to help prisoners, to help prisoners' families, to bring restitution, on and on. he sacrificed the rest of his life, 35-plus years, to do what he thought was the right thing to do. a

>> well, torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making the last cull to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. (laughter) >> jon: that is why he is the best worst. dick cheney setting this nation's moral bar at anything incrementally better than the most despicable thing that has ever been done to us. by the way, that was out of the gates. he had just met the press and he opened with 9/11. that's like lynyrd skynyrd walking out and saying, why don't we kick it off with a little "free bird" how about that? saving you a little lighter fluid and your shouting shows there. the problem is you don't give yourself anywhere to go. >> torture is what al quaida did to 3,000 americans on 9/11. in my mind what meets the deposition of interestture is what 19 guys armed with airline tickets and box cutters did to 3,000 americans on 9/11. >> i see that's just what meets the definition of torture in his mind. his mind, i assume being the scariest (bleep) place in the universe. you know what? i'm

. >> well torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making the last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. there is this notion there is more equivalent between what the terrorists did and what we do, and that's not true. we were careful to stop short of torture. the senate has seen fit to label it torture but we were made sure to stop short that have definition. we did capture bin laden and others who were involved in that. i would do it again in a minute. >> while the report is causing great debate, it's unlikely that congress will move towards prosecution towards cia officials. seeing that the congress will be made up primarily of republicans in large part. we. >> we want to bring you an update on the sydney cafe siege. australian authorities have identified the hostage taker inside the lindt cafe, where he's holding several people hostage still. this situation began around 9:45 local time. let's get the latest from andrew thomas, who joins us now from sydney. what do we kn

. >> torture, to me, chuck, is an american citizen on his cell phone making the last call to his fourng daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center on 9/11. >> i don't want to make light of the events of 9/11 and people dying, but vice president cheney was asked directly for his definition of torture and he told about a terrorist attack. >> it is totally manipulative and does not remotely answer the question. if that is a liberal definition of torture, that means that american soldiers could draw and quarter and unarmed combat and in foreign countries. this is setting one example that is not, by definition, a definition. i have another favorite moment. that was misdirection. it will look at another cheney move here, which is intimidation. this is the response chuck todd got when he asked "when you say waterboarding is torture, then why do we prosecute japanese soldiers?" >> it is a cheap shot to try to draw a parallel to the japanese prosecuted for war crimes after world war ii and what we differ waterboarding. three individuals, all of guilty pa

. >> torture, to me, chuck, is an american citizen on his cell phone making a last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. there's this notion that somehow there's moral ekwiflance between what they did and we do. that's not trur. we stopped short of torture. we tried to stay short of that definition. we did capture bin laden and an awful lot of the senior guys of al qaeda responsible for that attack on 9/11. i'd do it again in a minute. >> of course, there are many people within the united states government who don't agree with that assessment. this report is causing a lot of debate and discuss here in the united states. at this stage, however, it does not seem that there's any appetite to go forward and prosecute former cia agents for this behavior, given that there was an order from the justice department and authorization from the justice department to do a lot of these things. there's a lot of criticism coming at the international level as well, and in particular from the united nations on tor

>> first of all, thanks for having me, chuck. yes, it did bother me. i think i echo a lot of sentiments that other colleagues of mine in hollywood had. the folks at sony are our friends, their coworkers. i can't imagine the horribly tough decision they were in in terms of privacy and records least of all to mention the intellectual property. i think it sets a dangerous precedent. it is a tricky situation to say somebody's hands were tied. i don't think that was true. theater owners pulled the movie. sony owns playstation. they could have put it on video on demand when they pulled down their facebook and twitter pages, that shows me that they are not really backing the film. >> it was interesting, mel brooks' comments, he waited until hitler was dead to mock him. there has been some criticism that says, was this over the top in the way kim jong-un was portrayed. what do you say to that? >> i haven't seen the film. i don't know. i think you can obviously argue was this movie in poor taste or was it not on both sides? that's always the conversation when y

>> first of all, thank you for having me, chuck. yes, it did bother me, and i echo a lot of the sentiments that a lot of my colleagues in hollywood have had, and the folks at sony are our friends and co-workers and i can't imagine the horribly tough decision they were in and privacy of the records being released and the intellectual property, and at the end of the day, the president said that it sets a dangerous precedent and a tricky situation for somebody to say that their hands were tied, and i don't believe that is necessarily true, pause the exhibitors and other theaters that refused to show the movie, and they could have put it down on the having owned xbox and other ways to distribute, and they didn't. >> and there is some mocking of him, and is there some way that kim jong-un was portrayed, and is that true? >> well, i have not seen the if film, so you could argue in both way ways was the movie in good taste or poor taste, but that is the way of in harold and kumar escaping in guantanamo bay, and we had a fictitious george bu

. >> torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making the last call to his four youngpper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. there's a notion that somehow there's moral equivalence with what the terrorists did and what we do. that is not true. we were careful to stop short of torture. >> no one is making an argument between what terrorists did on 9/11 and the techniques use zed on a number of people by a contractor. >> it's interesting to make emotional statements. the statements are not the facts. for example, most of the information as it has senate report tells us, were obtained and resulted in us stopping, destructing the plots, abrehending terrorists, resulted without the interrogation techniques. these are the facts. i know that firsthand. >> let's go into detail on that. a man addressed in this report, president bush came forward saying he stopped talking. these tactics were used on him. listen to what president bush said. you were involved. you know firsthand. listen to what the president said. >> during questioning, he disclosed nominal infor

when chuck passed away, they asked me at prison fellowship would i take over. so i've been doing that for about a year and a half now. >> host: what's the short version of your conversion? >> guest: of what? >> host: of your conversion. >> guest: well, the short version is that i was raised with some faith. i was raised as a greek orthodox christian, altar boy, church every sunday. believed in god but didn't really know the details. didn't know why i believed it, didn't know is this something that intellectually is sound? i wasn't convinced that it was. i thought it was just some sort of, you know, if you're greek, you go to the greek church, and you don't ask too many questions. be a good boy, get good grades, you'll go to a good school and make a good living. well, at yale my faith, such as it was, was strongly challenged. the academia and yale in particular is extremely aggressively secular. so by the time i graduated, i was utterly lost. i had no idea what i believed because i never had really drilled down to know do i believe what i claim to believe, and,

. >> torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making a last call to his four youngghters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. >> ron, good point. everybody here thought that was a good point he made. explicate how that relates to this question of whether or not we should have a program which many people believe it's torture. >> i don't have tears for terrorists. i have tears for friends i lost on 9/11. i have tears for the families who are going through pain to this very day. if you look at what the white house did with george w. bush in the lead here, he made a determination to go into the justice department, that these techniques were legal. they were harsh, but they were legal. the cia suspended the program twice, they said we need to make sure that we're doing this in the way that it's proper and in fitting with the way the united states treats detainees. this report is the most one-sided, flawed report that could have been published in "rolling stone" magazine. they interviewed not one single officer

. >> well torture, to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cellphone making a last call to his four daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center on 9/11. waterboarding the way we did it was not torture. isis i haven't seen waterboard anybody they just their heads off. >> last week a high ranking united states officials called the techniques a violation of human rights law. >> i have little respect for the united nations or this individual who zrnt a clue and has no responsibility for safe guarding this nation going after the bastards. >> do you think the president should issue a pardon. >> no pardon needed. no crime is committed. >> joining us now author and ambassador glad to have you with us. >> nice to be with you. >> dick cheney is clearly playing on the emotions of the american people, of course the country wanted restitution and reven revenge, his best talking point is how we should feel after we got hit on 9/11. how do you think the rest of the world is viewing these comments from cheney? >> i think his comments are useful in the event an

. >> torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making the last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. there's this notion that somehow there's moral ekwifl ens between what the terrorists did and what we do, and that's absolutely not true. for 13 years we've avoided another mass casualty attack against the united states. we did capture bin laden. we did capture an awful lot of the senior guys at al qaeda who were responsible for that attack on 9/11. i would do it again in a minute. >> he would do it again in a minute. that was former vice president dick cheney just this morning staunchly defending the cia's controversial enhanced interrogation program. we're joined now by malcolm nance, a former master instructor for the u.s. navy's survival assistance and escape cool. malcolm, thanks so much. first, i want to get your response to what we just heard from the former vice president. >> well, it's absolutely an incredible dmenlt to hear from an elected vice president of the united

. >> torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making his last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. there's this notion that somehow there's moral equivalence between what the terrorists did and what we do and that's absolutely not true. we were very careful to stop short of torture. the senate has seen fit to label their report torture, but we worked hard to stay short of that definition. >> now, the former vice president is not alone. supreme court justice scalia also defended the cia in an interview with a swiss radio station last week. >> i think it is very facile for people to say, oh, torture is terrible. you pause it, the situation where a person that you know, for sure, knows the location of a nuclear bomb that has been planted in los angeles. and will kill millions of people. you think it's an easy question? you think it's clear that you cannot use extreme measures to get that information out of that person? i don't think that's so clear at all. >> here with reaction

. >> torture, to me, chuck, is an american citizen on his cell phone, making a last call to his four young daughters, shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 9/11. there's a notion that somehow there's moral equivalence between what the terrorists did and we do. that is not true, we were careful to stop short of torture. the senate saw fit to label the report torture, we worked hard to stay short of the torture. we captured bin laden and others. i'd do it again in a minute. >> while the report and that point of view is causing debate. at this stage it's unlikely that congress will move forward with any form of prosecution against former c.i.a. agents or former officials, especially considering that the congress convening in january will be made up primarily of republicans who have been supportive of the bush era techniques in large part. >> kristen saloomey reporting there. >> if you live in the remote part of nepal, you know it will be difficult to get food in. what you are not prepared for is how much it will cost now to get it t

chuck. it's good to be back. >> let me start with quoting you. you said earlier this week torture was something that was very carefully avoided. it implies that you have a definition of what torture is. what is it? >> well, torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making a last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city. on 9/11. there's this notion that somehow there's moral equivalence between what the terrorists did and what we do, and that's absolutely not true. we were very careful to stop short of torture. the senate has seen fit to label the report torture, but we worked hard to stay short of that definition. >> what is that definition? >> the definition is the one that was provided by the office of legal counsel. we went specifically to them because we did not want to cross that line into where we were violating some international agreement that we had signed up to. they specifically authorized and okayed, for example, exactly what we did.

. >> well, torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on his cell phone making a last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in new york city on 911. there is this notion that somehow there is moral equivalence between what the terrorists did and what we do and that's absolutely not true. we were very careful to stop short of torture. the senate has seen fit to label their report torture but we stayed short of that definition. >> i want to go back to the report on the cia's interrogation techniques and now that that record has been made public, what happens next? >> certainly, there is a lot of debate, a lot of discussion taking place in this country and a lot of members of congress who are not hang about what that report revealed, but there doesn't seem to be an appetite to prosecute any cia officials, cia agent did from that time period. since most of them were operating under the justice department's guidelines, it would be difficult to bring charges against them. they would have to prosecute higher level officials.

. >> well, torture to me, chuck, is an american citizen on a cell phone making a last call to the four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in the new york trade center. and it seems there is some difference of torture, and there is no difference, and we worked hard to stay short of that definition. >> what is that definition? >> the definition is the one provided by the office of legal counsel, and we went specifically to them because we did not want to cross the line that we crossed some international agreement, and they specifically okayed and authorized everything that we did. all of the techniques that were authorized by the the president were in effect blessed by the justice department opinion that we could go forward with those without in fact committing or the chur. >> and let me go through some of the techniques. majit khan subjected to rectal feed i feeding and feeding and it included ensure, and it included of hummus, and pasta and nuts and puree and rectally infused. is that meeting the definition of torture? >> it is not

chuck schumer had to say. >> no i'm not. i'm just -- believe meif chuck schumer found good news like that -- you're a good and honorable man -- we would he leapt on that like me a ponder -- ponderosa buffet. >> neil, come on. you pass a piece of legislation. it is a complex piece of legislation. and you need to see how it operates -- >> you have no regrets at all? >> i have regrets we didn't take more time to consider it in a way that was appropriate legislative process, and that is to go to a conference committee. the only reason we couldn't go to a conference committee is because the republicans would not vote to -- >> i don't want to play -- the medical device tax is going. >> let me tell you what. we have large debts in this country. you know why? because people don't like to pay for these things. this is a pay for in the bill. if we take out the tax we need to substitute itself with some other way to pay for it elm the republican congress and the house of representatives passed $600 billion in tax cuts over the last four months that were not

joining me now michaela davis, chuck nice comedian and tv personality. when i read that, why did you have that reaction? >> what, race relations have gotten worse? what struck me was under the first black president. we're associateing things have gotten worse under the first black president. i believe it has gotten worse, but it really hasn't. it seems worse because our perceptions have now come to the fore. like oil rising to the top and floating on water. that's really what has happened. >> i feel they're more illuminated. since the civil rights struggle, we thought we signed a few papers and people are okay. we haven't had persistent race relations working. when you don't do that, this is what happens. it keeps coming up. in the age of new media, things are happening with the kind of urgency we haven't seen before. >> i don't disagree with you on that. that's a headline and this poll. most see racial situations worsening -- >> i think obama turned on light to a lot of things we haven't continued to work on. >> what you have to understand -- the way i l

. >> my partner chuck smith, my favorite nickname for him is dr. no. the only person that ever tells meno is chuck. >> i'm starting to put more pressure on this, until we can start getting money in the drawer. >> each trip costs between 5 and $8,000. every market requires as many as five visits to sign a partner, and every single week we have payroll which is now six figures, all the while trying to keep this losty ship afloat. that really adds up. >> we're not where we're supposed to be. it's really hurting us. >> it goes back to the ying and yang. like any relationship, sometimes there's tensions. i'm talking to people in washington state that have licenses. we should have a licensing partner in illinois. you know, monies will go hard in those -- those monies are ours. >> it's not easy, as you can see in conversations, it becomes real stressful. >> we have tons of money. done a great job of leveraging up the money we're going to get. we don't have any of those yet. >> trying to determine how best to proceed. at the end of the day, you have to spend that money in order to establish rap

certainly one of the persons you most admired was chuck berry. tell meluence on you. >> without a doubt. i mean, i realize pretty early on that the show you put on when you're playing rock n' roll definitely adds to the excitement. i mean, i consider myself a fan first. and standing in the audience and feeling that energy, it's not just about the being able to hear a band play the songs but about how they perform the songs. might as well stay home and listen to the record or the cd or whatever form it is on now. so chuck not only boiled doujwn the essence of the bridge between the blues and this new thing called rock n' roll but he also put on a great show. i mean, he looked like he was born with a guitar in his hand. he could play it in any position he wanted. he could do the duck walk. he had all the tricks. that also impressed me. >> but did he chew gum, though. >> you know what, he did things that were i mean, some of the way i mean, if you closed your eyes you would never know he was playing the guitar behind his neck. >> yeah. >> or behind his head

. >>> i'm chuck todd and with me to provide analysis are eugene robinson of the washington post, and my colleague andrea mitchell and rich lauer editor of "the national review." with welcome to "meet the press." >>> this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >>> one huge story has dominated the this week, a it is the aftermath of that grand jury decision in ferguson, missouri. we learned that darren wilson resigned from the ferguson police force. he submitted a resignation letter that said he wanted to stay on, but the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me, and there is a lot of healing that needs to be done. and almost three quarters of the way through president barack obama's historic presidency, there is a lot of healing that needs to be done. we will be joined by governor patrick patrick, deval patrick and a panel to discuss the issue. >> there is not a latino america or black america, there is a united states of america. >> reporter: the president who cast the vision of hope saw it splinter this week by a splint screen reality. >> we a

me as well from the newsroom. chuck, let's listen to julia first because you have been studying this for so long, what do you think of the most important steps being taken today? >> well, of course, it's human and family dimension of bringing alan gross home is enormously important. the release of prisoners here and there for all of those individuals and the families, it's a wonderful step. the magnitude of this step by the president in terms of taking significant moves to redo normalized, make more natural this relationship that's been so stuck and fraught for half a century is very significant. it's significant for the two countries, it's significant for americans standing in latin america, it's signature for cuba's future. a reform process that raul castro has unleashed is going quite slowly. i believe, however, that the impulse and the imme us to will help that process move forward. >> and chuck todd, the president could have taken smaller steps, he had a lot of leverage here. he's gone big. he's done, i'm told, wha

i'm chuck todd. joining me with rick santelli. amy walter, john stanton and kaseem reed. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >>> good morning. it has been another week with headlines don't natured by an angry reaction to a grand jury decision not to prosecute a white police officer for killing a black man. last week the story was in ferguson, missouri. this week, new york city. the grand jury's decision not to indict daniel pont lantaleo, wh eric garner in a chokehold which led to his death brought thousands to the streets. what was different was even as they demonstrated, politicians from across the political spectrum came together to condemn the new york decision. >> what do we want? >> justice. >> when do we want it? >> now. >> mr. garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. >> i asked them, what do you want? what is the point? they said they want accountability from the nypd, from the prosecutor

me up. krystal, chuck, carolyn, thank you for your time tonight.e come back, why i think real change is coming to policing. many americans who have prescriptions fail to stay on them. that's why we created programs which encourage people to take their medications regularly. so join us as we raise a glass to everyone who remembered today. bottoms up, america. see you tomorrow. same time. another innovation from cvs health. because health is everything. i'i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. ♪soft holiday music ]♪ can you help me up? [ snow intensifies ] [ sleighbells ring in the distance ] aleve. all day pain relief with just 2 pills. get back to being you. >>> finally tonight, fighting for progress. the