meadows. she spent considerable time up here on capitol hill, representing the trump administration. and we welcome her back. up until now, our hearings have each been organizeto address specific elements opresident trump's planned overrn the 2020 election. today we areeparting somewhat from that model. because ms. hutchins's testimony touches on seral important and crosscutting topics, topics that are relevant to each of our future hearings. in her role working for the white house chief of staff, she handled a vast number of sensitive issues. she worked in the west wing several steps down the hall from the oval office. she spoke daily with members of congress andigh-ranking officials in the administration, with senior white house staff, including mr. meadows. with white house counsel, lawyers, and mr. ny arnoldo, who served as the white house deputy chief of staff. she also word on a daily basis with members of the secret service posted in the white house. in short, she was in a position to k

meadows. she was the go-between oftentimes. so she was with meadows quite a lot. i am told by several sources she had a falling out with him inspect 2021. so it will be interesting to see what she reveals today. a source familiar tells me, jake, that she testified for at least 20 hours behind closed doors with the committee over several sessions. the committee was really focused on the information flow through meadows to trump. she was in the thick of it as the source said. and then of course because she was all caught up, the source says she wanted to testify. she wanted to come out here and tell her story today. >> all right, pamela, thanks so much. the hearing gets under way about an hour from now. let's bring in cnn's ryan nobles. ryan, how has the select committee been preparing for today's hearing? >> well, jake, they are pr preparing for this hearing in a much different way than prior hearings and really different than any part of the investigation up to this point. cnn spotted exclusiv

meadows. miss hutchinson has spent considerable time up here on capitol hill representing the trump administration and we welcome her back. up until now our hearings have each been organized to address specific elements of president trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election. today we are departing somewhat from that model because miss hutchinson's testimony touches on several important and cross cutting topics. topics that are relevant to each of our future hearings. in her role working for the white house chief of staff she handled a vast number of sensitive issues. worked in the west wing several steps down the hall from the oval office. hutchinson spoke daily with senior white house staff, including mr. meadows, and mr. tony ornato. and worked on a daily basis with members of the secret service posted in the white house. in short, miss hutchinson was in position to know a great deal with the happenings in the trump white house. she has sat for more videos and we thank you for her cooperati

meadows. she talks about what led up to the attack and how president trump and others reacted to the security breach. she says president trump new that there were armed people in the crowd on january 6 and tried to force his security detail to take him to the capitol when the rally coluded. >> the selectommitt will be in order. without objection, the chr is authorized to declare the coittee and recess at any poin pursuant to regulation 10, the chair announces the committee's approval to release the position material presented during this hearing. good chair: good afternoon. the sect committee has laid out e details of my multi--- of aulti-part pressure campaign. the 2020 presintial election, and blocking the transfer of power. we have shown this effort was based on a lie. a lie that the election was stolen. tainteby widespread fraud tt donald trump - tated by widespread fraud, donald trump's big lie. donald trump summons a mob his boomers to washington, spurred them to march on the capitol, an

meadows. this isbout one hour and 45 minutes. >> the selectommittee will be in order. without objection, the chair is authorized to declare the coittee and recess at any poin pursuant to regulation 10, the chr announces the committee's approval to release the position material presented during this hearing. good afternoon. in o hearings over the previous weeks, thselect committee has laid out committee has laid out the details multipart campaign drivn by the former president, aimed overturning the results of the 2020 presintial election, and blocking the transfer of power. we have shown this effort was based on a lie. a lie that the election was stolen. tainteby widespread fraud tt donald trump - tated by widespread fraud, donald trump's big lie. donald trump summons arm mob his boomers to washington, spurred them to rch on the capitol, and failed to take meaningful action t quell the violence, as it was unfolding on january 6. however,n recent days, the committee has obtained w information de

meadows in his office on the couch.ember leaning against the doorway and saying, i just had an interesting conversation with rudy, mark. it sounds like we're going to go to the capitol. he didn't look up from his phone and said, there's a lot going on kasz, but i don't know. things might get real, real bad on january 6th. >> things might get real, real bad. cassidy hutchinson also provided incredibly granular detail about exactly how and when and how often the white house counsel warned those around the president not to let him march to the u.s. capitol with his supporters. because the legal consequences would be extreme. >> i saw mr. cipollone right before i walked out on to west exec that morning, and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> and do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the 6th,

meadows. was in a lot of meetings, close to former president trump in what he was thinking and saying in the days surrounding january 6. we know that she's someone who cooperated with the committee. it has been reported she sat down for three separate interviewed with the committee. that's important. what we know about her is that she has been someone who has been very forthcoming when it comes to information. we know about, as ali pointed out, this list of pardons, naming republicans by name. that, of course, was remarkable. it was a newsy thing that happened. the big thing about this hearing and the hearings overall have been that lawmakers have promised that there's new information. it has coming from cassidy hutchinson. apart from the pardons, even though some are saying she might be mistaken, you have representative brooks who says up to 100 republicans may have asked for pardons during the times around january 6. we know that cassidy hutchinson, she was the aide who was given the informa

meadows. she gives her accounts of the events leading up to the capitol attack and how trump and others reacted to the news of the security breach. ms. hutchinson claims he knew there was arms people trying to attend the rally on july 6 -- january 6. >> the select commiee will be in order. without objection, the chair is authorized to declare the committeand recess at any point. pursuant to regulation 10, the chair announces the committee's approval to release the deposion material presented during this hearing. good afternoon. in our hearings over the previous weeks, the select committee has laid out details a multipart campaign driven by the formerresident, aimed at overturning the results of the 2020 presidential election, and blocking the transfer of power. we have shown this effort was based on a lie. a lie that the election was stolen. tainted by widespread fraud that donald trump -- tainted by widespread fraud, donald trump's big lie. donald trump summons arm mob his boomers to washingt

meadows himself mourn her. >> things might get real real bad on january 6.he also made it clear, white house officials knew about the vast weapons the crowd was carrying. >> have three men walking down the street. including trump who said in a tent at the rally site -- >> i overheard the president say something to the effect of i think they have weapons but they are not here to hurt me. my people can march the capital from here. let them in. >> we are going to walk down and i will be there with you. we're going to walked onto the capital. with hutchison said she was in contact with republican leaders like house minority leader kevin mccarthy who warned her that trump should not come to the capital. >> he just set it on stage and they figured out, do not come up here. >> as the crowd was raging, hutchinson testified that trump was cheering them on. agreeing with the chance to quote hang mike pence. >> was monotonic to the effect of you heard him, he thinks he does not think they are doing anything wrong. >> recounted white house counsel reaction. >> people ar

meadow es. throughout the afternoon, he mentioned a few more times going up to the willard hotel that evening and then eventually dropped the subject the night of the fifth and said he would dial in instead. >> carl bernstein remains with us. joining him, cornish and casey hunt. jaime, you've done a lot of reporting about this "war room" at the willard hotel. what's so significant about this? meadows calling in to them? >> let me go back to what white house chief of staff needs to be leaving the white house the night before and we now know everyone knows that there's going to be trouble tomorrow and he's running over to a war room with rudy giuliani at the willard hotel? and it took -- cassidy is now 26. she was 24. shed to the be the one to tell him this really isn't appropriate to go. one of the footnotes. there were so many bombshells and cinematic moments. let's talk about the fact that she testified rudy's walking around talking about the oath keepers and the proud boys. my understanding is

she does not an solve mark meadows. because we've heard from the likes of jeffrey rosen or we've heard from richard donahue does not absolve pat cipollone. just because she has said or they have said something about it, i still would like to hear more information from the people who had the duty to advise the president and have not spoken up about these issues. it is so important because remember this committee, they have a legislative function here. a function to close whatever gap between what is illegal and what ought to be illegal and until we hear from people who are in those positions, i fear the american people will not go fully on board. >> the select committee also released this exchange that mike flynn, national security adviser, had when they were asking him questions and he re repeatedly was pleading the fifth. >> double the violence on january 6th was justified? >> clarification, is that a question -- >> both. >> i said fifth. >> do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified morally? >> take the

meadows did seek that pardon. yes, ma'am. her closing statement tuesday, house january 6 committee vice chair liz cheney suggested witnesses trump allies have been intimidating committee witnesses. >> our nation is preserved by those who abide by their oath to ouronstitution. our nation is preserved by those who know the fundamental difference between right and wrong. and i want all americans to know that what ms. hutchinson has done today is not easy. the easy course is to hide from the spotlight, to refuse to come forward, to attempt to downplay or deny what happened. that brings me to a different topic. while our committee has seen many witnesses, including many republicans, testify fully and forthrightly, this has not been true of every witness. and we have received evidence of one particular practice that raises significant concern. our committee commonly asks witnesses connected to mr. trump's administration or campaign whether they've been contacted by any of their former colleagues or anyone else who attempted to infl

his staff members rushed in to tell mark meadows. mark meadows just kept down looking down at his phone. could not care less. and so much more. what was your takeaway, willie? >> i thought mika nailed it. as i listened to that, my god, the abject cowardice of mark meadows sitting on this phone. what do you want me to do about it? yeah, he thinks mike pence should be hanged. what am i to do about that? a 24-year-old, a couple years out of college, she was the adult in the room surrounded by those ostensible adults and ostensible leaders who stood by and let it happen. we talked a lot about how the hearings will land. i'll just show you the front pages of the papers that i've got here. this is "the new york times" talking about donald trump encouraging violence and set to join the mob on the front page of the "wall street journal," trump knew the crowd was armed and sent it to the capitol. and even "new york post," tyrant trump on the "new york post." that was another one of my takeaways, joe. it was a tourist visit, they didn't even h

does and what mark meadows did. that's why i'm so excited that ginni thomas said that she wants to come testify before the january 6th committee. obviously she feels like she has nothing to hide. >> well, when we come back, what ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas is now saying about the prospect of meeting with the select committee. >> what do you mean? >> she apparently was for it before she was against it. >> but she said she wanted to testify. she had nothing to hide. i'm so confused. she had nothing to hide. i'm so confused. every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. >>> a lawyer for ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, is throwing co

meadows. testimony that can only be described as explosive. chuck todd, not sure where to start. >> i am -- explosive almost underplays what we just heard. i mean, look, before the description of the former president's unhinged behavior where he attacked his lead secret service detail, which i'm still trying to digest, she does make it clear in a very compelling way that for day, everybody in and around the president knew january 6th was going to be potentially explosive. knew it could become violent. the opening, i mean, every part of this testimony sort of had revelation after revelation beginning with that opening about rudy giuliani essentially informing miss hutchinson of what they at least thought the plan would be. so you know, as far as building the case about what the president knew and when he knew it and how illegal his acts were, boy, did she paint a damning picture. she connected a bunch of dots. but then you throw in the sort of physical, unhinged behavior with those two anecdote

mark meadows, it's no secret, mark meadows had a friendly relationship with the press.s friends with reporters, but he spoke to reporters. he was oftentimes quoted on the record in stories when he was white house chief of staff. people have been in his office before in the west wing, that chief of staff's office. look, you can't tell reporters who have seen, including me, cassidy with meadows in important meetings and outside of his office -- i mean, it doesn't pass the straight face test. and it doesn't make any sense to people who were around and covered -- we're not talking about ancient history. this was two years ago. we all understand that she was -- had incredibly close proximity to power because we were all there experiencing that proximity to power. >> so barbara, i want to ask you about something that was written in punchbowl, and bear with me, jake, but here is what was written today, which was, if you asked any trump world insider who would be the least likely person to testify against the administration, hutchinson would be atop the list. she was loyal to t

meadows should go to the hotel that night? >> i had made it clear to him that i didn't believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel that night. i wasn't sure everything that was going on there. i knew enough about what mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i didn't think that it was something appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or consider involvement in. i made that clear to mr. meadows. throughout the afternoon he mentioned a few more times going up to the hotel that evening. and eventually dropped the subject. the night of the fifth and said he would dial in instead. >> all right. listening to that, what is the committee trying to do here? >> this was the part of the testimony that really left me wanting to know more. in particular about the conversations between meadows and giuliani. and particularly in the time frame between about january 2 and january 5. sort of the few days leading up to january 6. because she testified that she had heard people talking about the

mr meadows had a conversation with me where _ meadows had a conversation with me where he _ meadows hadhite _ secret service on a movement in the white house so he could attend the meeting. _ white house so he could attend the meeting, or meetings with mr giuliani — meeting, or meetings with mr giuliani and his associates in the war room — giuliani and his associates in the war room-— giuliani and his associates in the war room. : :, .,, i. .,, war room. and what was your view as to whether or — war room. and what was your view as to whether or not _ war room. and what was your view as to whether or not mr _ war room. and what was your view as to whether or not mr meadows i war room. and what was your view as| to whether or not mr meadows should go to the willard that night? i had go to the willard that night? i had made it clear _ go to the willard that night? i had made it clear to _ go to the willard that night? i had made it clear to mr _ go to the willard that night? i had made it clear to mr meadows that i didn't— made it clear to mr meadows that i didn't believe it was a smart id

and here's how you characterize mr. meadows, general response. when people raised concerns about what could happen on january 6 so ahead of time in the day. ready and there were lots of course about how things might go bad on the sex unit potential provide i'm here for. ready saying that here is that mr knows to not share or at least not act on those concerns. did not act on those concerns. whiskey accurate but other people res, i'm j to him. like the miss exchange you mentioned or not? that's correct. miss hutchinson, we're going to show now an exchange of tax between you and deputy chief of staff or nato. and these text messages were exchanged while you were at the ellipse. i'm in one text you right, but the crowd looks good from this vantage point. as long as we get the shot, he was effing furious. and the text messages also stressed the president trump kept mentioning the o t r and off the record movement. we're going to come back and ask about that in a minute. but could you tell us, 1st of all, who it is in a text who was furious the he and

meadows was on the phone with? when he would not allow cassidy hutchinson to hear his call and when he twice close the door on her. as he testified today? >> well, i think, some of that information we would need to hear from mark meadows himself. or perhaps by collecting and corroborating records. that mark meadows would be able to provide to the committee. i think there is still a gap there, that's why exactly why we need to hear from him. that's why we are going to the lengths, to uphold this subpoena, to compel him to testify. and i think that that information he can provide to the committee is incredibly important. as far as the other potential witnesses yes. anyone who has further information to corroborate, information that's been shared by other witnesses. we want to hear it under oath! from those individuals. so we welcome them to come forward, and provide more details. about the things we have discussed in today's hearing. >> i'm just going to pressure you on that. it has been publicly reported that robert

so what more have you learned about the relationship between hutchinson and meadows?you that i spoke to a number of people who were familiar with the close nature of the relationship between hutchinson and meadows who were absolutely stunned by what they saw. today, this complete break by hutchinson from meadows, a man she had been so loyal to, but one former white house aide says the two had a falling out back in 2021 and another source says that meadows gave hutchinson zero support when she was entangled in the investigation of january 6th and all of these events leading to where we are now. erin? >> all right, thank you so much, kristen for your report. >>> and next, just in, the secret service is speaking out after cassidy hutchinson's testimony today, we have what the agency is saying tonight. >>> plus, a tragedy as authorities discover 51 bodies stacked in inside a tractor trailer. a horrible details of what's being called the worst human smuggling event in the united states. (m(man) [whispering] what's going on? (burke) it's a farmers policy perk. get farmers a

meadows spoke for him. when it comes to january 6, we learn more and more about what meadows knew ahead of time about the dangers on january 6. worse than his inaction might have been his inclination to not protect our democracy and the colleagues in congress but rather protecting the insurrectionists them services. a report last year says that meadows sent an email prior to january 6 saying that the national guard would be present at the capitol to protect the pro trump people. joining me now is tim miller, author of "why we did it." let's talk about this. the january 6 -- the picture of an almost catatonic mark meadows emerges throughout cassidy's testimony. wouldn't he about the one person out of every one of the administration who would know what donald trump knew, exactly what donald trump had plan and if donald trump did plan to have violence as part of the plan, wouldn't he know that? >> well, i think it's hesitant to accuse the former president of having any kind of plan. this was a reactor that cer

meadows appears to have no reaction whatsoever. knowing that, we get this just astonishing claim about the president and what he wanted from that armed crowd. what he demanded the secret service to, concerning the weapons that were being found among the crowd. he wanted the crowd to keep its weapons! then, march, armed, to the capital. just a reminder here, they use the word mag is a lot here in the testimony, by that, they mean magnetometer's, they're talking about metal detectors. >> did you go to the rally in the presidential motorcade? >> i was there, yes. in the motorcade. >> were you backstage with the presidents and other members of his staff and family? >> i was. >> you told us, miss hutchinson, about particular comments that you heard while you were in the tent area. >> when we were in the offstage announced area behind the stage, he was very concerned about the photograph that we would get. because the rally was in front of the pool. one of the reasons, which i had previously stated, was because he wanted it to be for peo

meadows about your conversation with mr. giuliani? >> i did. he didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, "there's a lot going on, cass, but i don't know, things might get real, real bad on hei moment that i remember feeling scared. >> reporter: then, the morning of january 6th, hutchinson testified meadows was told there were weapons in the crowd. >> i remember tony mentioning knives, guns, in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears, and flagpoles. spears were one item, flagpoles were one item, but then tony had relayed to me, something to the effect of, "these effing people are fastening spears onto the end of flagpoles." >> reporter: the committee played police radio traffic from that morning, backing up the reports of armed protesters. >> got three men walking down the street in fatigues, while carrying ar-15s. >> reporter: as trump got to the ellipse for his rally outside the white house, he was angry that more of the crowd wasn't allowed inside the secure area around the stage. some apparent

meadows should go or not? ms. hutchinson: i made it clear to him that i don't think it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel. i was unsure on everything that was going on their although i knew enough that -- on everything mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i did not think it was appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or involved in that. i made that clear to him. he mentioned a few more times going to the hotel that evening and eventually dropped the subject the night of the bit and said he would dial in instead. rep. cheney: general flynn has appeared before this committee and when he appeared, he took the fifth. let's view a clip of general michael flynn taking the fifth amendment. >> do you believe the violence on january was justified? -- january 6 was justified? yes. >> could you are a peep question please? -- repeat the question? rep. cheney: do you believe the violence was justified? i am asking both. >> i plead the fifth. rep. cheney: you believe the ba

meadows. and hutchinson witnessed many of the key conversations and january 6 and around trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. let's get starts. kristen holmes is live. a lot of secrecy, kristen and this hearing and this witness and what we could learn today. >> reporter: kate, that's right, we're told in part that secrecy is actually about concerns about hutchinson's access to the testimony. given the proximity to trump's chief of staff mark meadows also proximity to events and sources described hutchinson as always by meadows' side. and given the urgency at which the committee brought this hearing it just goes to show you how explosive they believe that this testimony may be. >> reporter: her testimony had rattled capitol hill. >> are you aware of any other -- >> reporter: once awe top aide to former white house chief of staff mark meadows, cassidy hutchinson is now a key witness in the house january 6 investigation. giving hours of testimony in multiple sessions. >> mr. gaetz and m

meadows partially cooperated, until he didn't. and scavino, his lawyers reportedly went through some motions to negotiating with the committee. whereas navarro and steve bannon completely defied the committee. but if doj is giving people credit for pretending to cooperate or partially cooperating like mark meadows, i disagree with that and think it sets a terrible precedence. >> right after the indictment, there were people on the president's side irate about this. louie, went on tv and made this complaint. let's watch. >> it actually puts an exclamation point on the fact that we have a two-tier justice system. if you're a republican, you can't even lie to congress or lie to an fbi agent or they're coming after you. >> yeah, i mean, we shouldn't have to remind our viewers, but let's go ahead. it's illegal for anyone, republican or democrat, to lie to the congress, to lie to the fbi. i guess this is washington so i suppose some are just used to that tradition here. but, you know, peter navarro told the judge that he wanted to repre

julie, on a meeting with mr. meadows on january 2nd 2021. i do or he met with mr. meadows in the evening of january 2nd. 2021. and we understand that you walked mr. juliani out of the white house that night and he talks to you about january 6th. what you remember him saying as the so julian and i were walking to his vehicles that evening. he looked at me and said something to the effect of cash. are you excited for the 6th? it's going to be a great day. i remember looking at him, saying rudy to explain what's, what's happening on the sex. he and he had responded something to the effect of we're going to the capitol. it's going to be crated as it is going to be there. he's going to a powerful, he's, he's going to get the members he's going to be with the senators, talks the chief about it, talk to the chief about it. he knows about it. and did you go back and then up to the west wing and tell mr. meadows about your conversation with mister juliani, i did after mister juliani had left the campus that evening, i went back up to our office and f

meadows was on the phone with? when he would not allow cassidy hutchinson to hear his call and when he twice close the door on her. as he testified today? >> well, i think, some of that information we would need to hear from mark meadows himself. or perhaps by collecting and corroborating records. that mark meadows would be able to provide to the committee. i think there is still a gap there, that's why exactly why we need to hear from him. that's why we are going to the lengths, to uphold this subpoena, to compel him to testify. and i think that that information he can provide to the committee is incredibly important. as far as the other potential witnesses yes. anyone who has further information to corroborate, information that's been shared by other witnesses. we want to hear it under oath! from those individuals. so we welcome them to come forward, and provide more details. about the things we have discussed in today's hearing. >> i'm just going to pressure you on that. it has been publicly reported that robert

one mark meadows. yesterday, committee vice chair liz cheney detailed two instances of what appeared to be witness tampering through intimidation. if true, it's perhaps not the only way someone is trying to influence who says what. ryan nobles joins us now with more on the subpoena. what do we know about this? >> reporter: it seems pretty clear that the committee no longer wants to wait around for pat cipollone to voluntarily comply with their investigation and learn more about what he knew about the time leading up to and on january 6th. they make it clear in their letter to cipollone that they're willing to talk to him about ways of deal being privileged claims that he may have. and there's no doubt some privilege claims, because he was a member of the white house counsel's office, he was the chief counsel in that office and somebody that was advising the president and the office of the presidency on a number of legal matters. but it's clear that the committee believes his testimony outweighs any of

meadows. >> she has already delivered some of the most dramatic moments in videotaped testimony identifying the names of republican lawmakers she say asking for pardons, discussion the conversations surrounding the legality of the election scheme. and hutchinson reports to something reacting approvallely to chances of "hang mike pence." we have also learned that federal agents seized john eastman's cell phone last week. this is video of how it unfolded. eastman is the architect of fake electors to overturn the 2020 election. >> and kristen holmes is joining us from washington. kristen, this is going to be a big day, unexpected and significant? >> absolutely. cassidy hutchinson has long been considered one of the most consequential witnesses for the january 6th committee due to her approximatety to trump many chief of staff mark meadows and therefore to critical events and conversations surrounding january 6. now, the committee has not released the topic of today's hearing, but the rush to get

trump's white house chief of staff, mark meadows.ording to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, meadows remained glue, remained glue to his phone during the attack on the capital, despite being told by security officials of trump supporters being armed on their way to congress. >> talking to mark that morning, mark was sitting on his couch, on his phone, which was something typical and i got into informing him how many people we have on the mags right now, these are the weapons that we're going to have, possibly more, i just don't recall. and i remembered distinctly mark not looking up from his phone, i remembered telling him, this explanation, and it taking a few seconds to say quote, mark, did you hear me, and then mark chimed in, anything else, still looking down at his phone. >> anything else? hutchinson told the committee as the attack on the united states capitol progressed, mark meadows was informed about rioters sbet entering the capitol calling for vice president mike pence to be hanged. yesterday we learned that mark meadows was

and a significant part of that story does revolve around mark meadows. and i think the effect will be as you describe it i think the conduct he engaged in, clearly he seems to have been closely engaged in what -- i think there's a lot of evidence now was a lot of involvement at a high level in the planning of this event and, you know, he says to cassidy hutchinson, it could get real, real bad on the 6th. but later on when things have gotten bad and, you know, she and others come to him, he slams the door on her, he won't talk to her he looks at his phone. he doesn't pay attention finally he says he doesn't want to do it he doesn't want to intervene and so he doesn't step up and do it and so i think he's in a bad spot i think as this goes forward, he could well end up being one of the people that finds himself in the criminal doc. >> donald ayer, thanks, appreciate it. >>> more than 50 people found dead inside an abandoned big rig in texas the temperature outside topping 100 degrees. the investigation into three people of interest, and what officers found

meadows apparently share that information with donald trump. and yet they both seemed relatively unperturbed by the potential violence at the capitol. is that willful blindness? is a connection between the idea between something violent happening and meanwhile there are these attempts to overthrow the overturn the election -- what do you make of that? >> it could be a lot of things. i don't want to overstate it. i think it's important to appreciate that when we look at pieces of evidence, there can be more with them one explanation. something prosecutors have to do is consider exculpatory views on this evidence. that means a view of this evidence that would tend to not incriminate someone. but if you were thinking through this and looking to see how the evidence could fit together, you might view this lack of an effort to shut down a violent insurrection as circumstantial evidence, that the people who did that, donald trump and mark meadows, that they weren't upset about the insurrection because they intended for it to happen. that's quite a le

a lot of names here but central is mark meadows. let's remind viewers, mark meadows came to congress as a member from north carolina and we can look at some of the meade freedom caucus with congressman jim jordan and in 2020, he became chief of staff to president trump. a centrafigure and what we have described -- what we have heard described today was a picture of a chief of staff who was not acting to the degree to which it almost seemed like it was a passiveness that may have bordered on permissiveness of what was going on in the white house's oval office. january 2 in particular, cassidy hutchinson described a conversation with rudy giuliani. he brought up plans for january 6 in a way that got on her radar like never before. she walked back into the white house and she was asked, did she then talked to mark meadows, her boss, about what she heard from giuliani? here is the response. >> i went back up to our office and found mr. meadows in his office on the couch scrolling through his phone. i remember leaning against the doorway