and fair decision on this issue. >> with all due respect, senator mccain has a great deal more of military experience than his daughter megan, than mr. hindery, ed and/or me and the truth the matter is -- >> not more than mike mullen. >> you're right. >> the chairman of the joints chiefs of staff. >> and that's why what senator mccain said there is crucial, which is to listen to the military leaders. the comandant of the marine corps is totally opposed to removing don't ask, don't tell and the only standard of the military should not be only a social program, what should it help the military with its mission, which is to basically defeat the enemy and to break their stuff. and frankly, if you have a crossbenefit analysis that suggests that repealing don't ask, don't tell is going to cost more and impact effectiveness, then it shouldn't be done. >> so bigotry is okay as long as the numbers work out? i mean, come on, michael. >> okay. i'm sorry, is it bigotry, ed do you believe it's bigotry if men and women don't bunk together in the military. >> it is absolutely a policy of bigotry. the military wants to change it. and now h