welcome to you both. >> thank you. >> woodruff: megan mcclean first of all why is this happening?anks so much for having us this evening. generally speaking, with the default situation, we're see the aftermath of the 2008 economic downturn. we see more students going back to school during an economic downturn so the borrower pool to begin with is broader and then you're seeing folks still struggling in a job market which can also contribute to defaults, a very troubling problem. >> woodruff: william elliot, give us a profile of the individual with this debt burden. >> well, it's not really that surprising now judy. it's black students minority students tend to be more likely to default. i think the most interesting things which you brought up earlier is even amounts of $5,000 or less, students still end up in delinquency or default and that's the most revealing part of the study is small amounts of debt can lead to financial hardship in the long run. >> woodruff: why do you believe that is? >> well, i think because really it's the whole idea or premise of debt in the first place i