melinda liu, the beijing bureau chief of newsweek magazine.iktor olevich, the lead expert for the center for actual politics think tank. at a time when democracy is in retreat and so much of the world, how much of a threat does the attack that transpired on the capital in the u.s. pose to democracy in the u.s. and around the world? jason: obviously the last four years have been terrible for the brand of democracy. it reinforced the thought that democracy is hypocritical, it is a mask in the u.s. for white supremacy, for naked power grabs, and minority powers and the wealthy to use ultra nationalism in the service of their own glorification and power. yesterday was hopefully the culmination of that. i am hoping that the backlash to yesterday will help the brand of democracy rather than harm the brand of democracy. of course, it is obvious what the effects of yesterday were and how it will be exploited by figures like gyre bolsonaro -- jair bolsonaro. mohammed: xi jinping has been holding up china's surveillance state as a model the rest of the

from beijing melinda liu the beijing bureau chief for newsweek magazine and from moscow victor only of its lead expert at the center for actual politics think tank welcome to you all jason let me start with you today at a time when democracy is in retreat in so many parts of the world how much of a threat does the attack the transpired on the capital in the us pose to both democracy in the u.s. and democracy around the world well obviously the last 4 years have been terrible for the brand of democracy they have reinforced the the thought of the enemies of democracy that democracy is hypocritical it's a mask in the united states for white supremacy for for naked power grabs and for minority powers and the wealthy to use ultra nationalism in the service of their own glorification and our and yesterday was the hopefully the culmination of that so so i'm hoping that the backlash to yesterday will will will help the brand of democracy rather than harm the brand of democracy of course it's obvious what the facts of yesterday were and how it's going to be exploited by figures like jay or both