could you expand more on this issue of mens rea? >> certainly and thank you for the opportunity to comment further on this issue. we look forward to working with you and other members of the committee as we explore how this interacts with the sentencing reform efforts. as you've noted we have decided as a society and as a statutory body, congress decided to our crimes for which liability is important to ensure the safety of our food and drugs but also to ensure the protection of those who serve as big as you mentioned the murder of a federal agent of terrorist activity that results in the death of americans abroad, are activities that we as a society have deemed to be a such a nature that they should incur criminal liability when they occur and when it can be proven. that liability is indeed a strict liability because of the nature of those crimes that there are other and nation would have to prove inward to find someone guilty. we would have to establish that they were responsible for the actions, that they took those actions for a

i like to turn now to criminal justice reform and specifically the issue of mens rea. to protect innocent actors to be sent to jail accidentally breaking the law. they say that in order to be guilty of a criminal offense a person must have acted with a guilty mind. i like to read a quote from the 1952 supreme court case, morrissette versus united states. the morrissette versus united states. the opinion in the cases by justice jackson. who is one of the all-time great justices, as you know. a contention that an injury can amount to a crime only -- this is his quote. only when afflicted by intention is no provincial or transient notion. it is a universal and persistent of law that believe in freedom of will and is the ability of the person to choose between good and evil. it was the notion that a criminal act requires a guilty mind, that it is no provincial or passing notion, i think could you answer that yes or no. >> thank you senator, i think you have given certainly one of justice jackson's most pressing quotes on this issue. i think sternly is a practicing prosecut

. >> host: then talk about mens rea. that's another criminal law concept. >> guest: another thing where you see this huge expansion of the administrative state. used to be the idea that you had to have a certain state of mind, mens rea, a state of mind that you intended to carry out a crime. so, if you intended to kill someone, versus someone died because you had an accident, is the difference. then in the law, particularly in these regulatory areas, there's this idea of strict liability law, it doesn't matter. you'll be held guilty of a criminal act. another revolution in the law and one that is not the system we start out with but is a key underpin offering the regulatory state. >> host: there's one other factor in the criminal law and that is the doctrine of lenity. >> guest: yet. this has to be the criminal defense attorney, which you are now, favorite part of the law. >> host: maybe not so much. >> guest: this was the idea -- goes back to the idea you start out with, that the criminal laws were supposed to be few an

so absence of the specific mens rea or knowledge, for example, that they were american tourists in a particular place would not alleviate the government of its responsibility to fully and fairly and adequately prove that crime in a crime of law. so the person would be held accountable for the serious crime and the fact that they did not know, for example, in that example, that americans were involved, would be used appropriately, in my view as something to which they could be found liable for and sentenced for. >> last december, the president commuted the sentence of a man named alten mills at the age of 24, never having served one day in jail was found guilty of a third strike for the sale of drugs in the city of chicago and was given a life sentence. life sentence. he served 22 years before the president commuted his sentence. i've met him. i've worked with him. it is clearly a sentence which is excessive and way beyond what should have been imposed. there are now 20000 clemency petitions that are pending before your department. it doesn't appear you have the capacity to deal with

seen this huge expansion and it used to be the idea that you had to have a certain state of mind, mens rea, a state of mind you intended to carry out a crime, so if you intended to kill someone versus someone died because you had an accident is a difference. then in the law, particularly in these regulatory areas strict liability criminal law area where doesn't matter if you had intention or not, just the act resulted in you will be held guilty of a criminal act. i think that is another revolution and is not the system we started out with and it's amusing criminalize today. >> host: the doctrine of lenity, tell us about that speech you this test with a criminal defense attorneys favor part of law. >> host: maybe not so much. >> guest: this was the idea that goes back to the idea you start out with criminal laws were supposed to be few and clear and as citizens we could understand what it was we could and cannot do and the rule of lenity meant that-- criminal law should not be vague. if criminal law did not really clearly tell you what was illegal and you knew it was ambiguous or was not cl

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