and, you know, we do that, but i agree with mercier and spurber that we do that more effectively at a group level. the other assumption of their argument, that the mind evolved the argue, i have more trouble with, right? i think the mind's evolved to do all kinds of things. i think that storytelling is at least if not more important than argumentation. right? so there are all kinds of formal systems that we learn culturally, that we pass and discuss and develop culturally. but i'm not sure that thinking about reasoning as a process of argumentation is, in the end, going to lead us in the best direction. >> i just wanted to ask a question because i think it follows up on this. it to occurred to me that there's some similarity to your example which is show me how a zipper works with the socratic method which is an old trick of asking a person questions and showing them that they don't really understand what they mean when they're using some terms. that's what comment, i don't know if you want to comment on that. the other is more a question of rhetoric, that a standard device in persuas