when we're discussing the telephone meta data program.hey said there's 54 cay cases where it helped prevent 54 attacks or something like that. then it was down to 32. then we found out he wasn't talking about the meta data program. the 215 program. he was talking about the prism program. and knock on the front door of the agency or the company with a warrant or order from the fisa court. when it came downtown actual meta data program, it came down to one success. one success. and actually the deputy director actually admitted this on -- just left nsa admitted on public radio about a week ago with one case. and the case was a guy in san diego who sent $8 ,000 to some group in somalia. it didn't have anything to do with the united states. it's the one success for collecting all of your telephone records since 2001. so that's what i hope is that we can start starting understanding the useful programs from the youthless programs and the apply not just the standard of some guy in the back room of a -- or woman in the back room of a nsa listeni

are related to terrorism and they use that meta data to pass it on to the f.b.i. and we know that it has used them in the past to contact and interview the people in the community, and the people that you might have heard of at the various hearings in san francisco. there is every reason to believe that these leaks came from the nsa and the data program that was revealed last summer, there are zero reasons to think that this relationship to nsa on the part of the f.b.i. has changed at all. >> so when the nsa sends this sort of information to the f.b.i. and does it follow up and is the personnel assigned to the jttf available to be used? why or why not? has anyone made inquiry for this. if so, was there any of this information, that was related in the report, and we did not see that. the report, did issue a reference and intelligence sharing but nothing more than that and the mere reference and intelligence sharing is not enough or sufficient in the report. we were told that they are spent about 2800 hours a year on the jttf work and we would like to know what they

>> the vast majority of what is at risk bears on many other topics besides telephone meta data. >> what is given to newspaper outlets versus things kept for other purposes -- what portion do you think that the represents? >> i don't know. that is assessing what he took and what he shared in the media or with a national entity, we don't know that. we do know the 200 articles that have been published around the world which do give us some insight into what was taken. >> do you have an estimate of what the taxpayer's cost would be to mitigate the last? >> i do not. i think there is more to be revealed here. and so i think we will be accounting for this for months and maybe years ahead. there have been discussions about selling of access to this material to both newspaper outlets and other places. to the best of your knowledge, is fencing stolen material a crime? >> yes, it is. >> and would selling the access of classified material stome stolen from the united states -- is that a crime? >> it would be. it can be complicated, but fencing or selling stolen property is a crime. >> if i am a ne

or like subway bred chemical collecting the phone meta data or does this chemical want to build a mosquet ground zero? what chemical are we talking about? >> what we're talking about here asodide carbonomide. >> jon: i see the problem here. if you change your font size -- [laughter] -- you can fit that on just one screen. you could. [ laughter ] because any time you are using what appears to be 8,000 point text it is going to take up your whole studio. [ laughter ] tell me about this azodicarbominide. >> supposedly et helps make the bread look whiter and puffier but it's also found in yoga mats and the sole of our shoes. >> jon: yoke why mats. maybe that's when every time i eat at subway i end up in the bathroom in the lotus position. ohm. ohm. all right. fine. [ laughter ] you know what that's why i bring a back-up snack. i'll treat myself to a home made sandwich. i know what is in this. slice of classic american kraft singles cheese. >> kraft foods is cutting preserve actives from individually wrapped cheese slices. they are replacing the asorbic acid with something they say is say nat

but this is also a program that republicans support, a program that meta data i believe beegan underorge bush. >> it exposes more divisions within the republican party. it's in that same vein as what ted cruz is doing on the debt ceiling and it's also in that same vein of what ted cruz is doing in that it's geared towards 2016 and the fight he's taking on in terms of the nsa is something that appeals to a constituency that he's looking to stake out in the 2016 election. >> peter, there are a lot of people on the left who agree with rand paul on this, who believe that the meta data collection should stop and the record should be erased. i would not be surprised if we saw some -- i guess i'd be surprised if i saw democratic lawmakers but i would bnlt surprised if say glen greenwald joined it. >> you have alliances of sorts. aclu, civil liberties type folks and the rand paul libertarians. it crosses different party lines. they're against the senator, the dianne feinstein, centrist democrat, mike rogers, republican national security hawk wings of their party. it's an unusual alignment in

which is being litigated by former virginia attorney general seeks to expunge the phone records and meta data collected by the nsa's domestic surveillance program on some 386,000 plaintiffs. >> the essence of rand paul's lawsuit holds that the nsa searches violate the u.s. constitution's fourth amendment. the clause which protects against arbitrary search and seizure and rand paul -- >> we'll find out. fl go to the courts and go to the supreme court. we'll find out. i don't want to insert myself in that particular part of it. i will say this about this, there are situations it seems to me where this this is valid. i think this is valid. if we are to believe people who really know about this, they said that we stopped the number of major terrorist attacks against the united states as a result of the information which weed from all of this eavesdropping. i believe that. i think the consequences for this country if we had two or three more terrorist attacks would have been disastrous. in one sense i think it was to protect the united states and i support it to that extent. >> his arguments make

>> to state our recommendation, we believe that the meta data, that is who the phone numbers are from, and -- who's calling whom and when, the government shouldn't be holding that data. in a free society, if we're engaged in a risk management exercise, there are undue risks to privacy and civil liberty with the government holding that data. we think that the information should be held privately, which has a safeguard against the risks of abuse which in american history have not been absent. not in the recent past, not in the last years, but under president nixon and president johnson there were risks from surveillance. and before. so we don't urge that the information should suddenly be held by the phone companies. that's not what we urge. the phone companies have that information. they hold it for consumer protection reasons, in large part. they hold it because they don't want to be billing you for stuff that you're not responsible for. in fact, the federal communications commission, whose mission is not surveillance, requires that landlines at least, the phone records be kept for 18

but this is what the meta data program is all about. we will not go into syria and put taps on them there, but if we can find numbers coming from syria and this is part of the effort we should be undertaking to find out t potential attacks in the country. i cannot think of a better category of people whose calls i would like to know more about. >> the situation in syria is creating an environment that the nation's top security agencies are saying it provides a launching pad for attacks on american soil. is there anything we should be doing three years in to change that? >> i think we should be trying to do more but i am not sure what the united states stais capable of doing. but i am not sure what we should be doing against the opposition forces many of which are muslim brer brotherhood. it isn't confined to syria. many are working with al qaeda in iraq. and i am afraid it is part of the general decent into the chaos in the middle east as a whole. but you can say there is a declining american influence is allowing conditions to grow muc

that's certainly as far as i want to go, other than to say there's a lot more than just meta data withlly hurt the country. that's why i'm so angry that rand paul is bringing this lawsuit. in addition to that, the vast amounts of other information, that's sensitive information, classified, top-secret information involving our military, does remain available, it's disgraceful. >> okay, i know you don't want to go further, so let me just ask for you to confirm something. the fact that he's there, that he went to russia, isn't that enough of a concern that they will try to get at him, offer him whatever they can give him to get information from him? i mean, shouldn't we have been extremely concerned about this from the get-go? and assumed it was happening? >> absolutely. and we have to assume, by the way, that all of the material he had, all of the data he had, is available to the russians. i mean, they can break any type of code. once he brought it with hem -- we have to assume the chinese have it all, too. they can extract that from the data that he had. so, no, there's no doubt in my m

all of the telephone meta data related to the communications of plaintiffs and class members. >> doesof winning? >> i don't know. a lot of these cases have been adjudicated and the justice has fallen on the side of the administration. it seems likely that this case and those like it will continue to go up the judicial ladder until it reaches the u.s. supreme court. >> jake tapper, thanks for stopping by. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> next hour of "cnn newsroom" starts now. >> good morning. i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining me. we are following two major stories unfolding right now. at any moment, closing arguments will get underway in the so-called loud music murder trial. a florida man faces life in prison for shooting into a carful of teenagers. they had been blaring loud rap music. >>> we have to begin with weather this morning. for millions of americans, specially in the south, a brutal mix of ice and snow is sweeping in bolstered by words just as chilling, historic, catastrophic and very unpredictable. this screaming headline you are about to see speaks volum

. >> host: meta data collecting? >> guest: yeah, and so that was not a surprise. it was in the a surprise with the electronic surveillance activity they were doing overseas of foreign, foreign governments, and none of that was a surprise. what was a surprise to me was the massive amount of data and information snowden had access to. some of the revelations, every few days, the latest revelation and think to myself, i never knew that was going on. i didn't -- what i am saying is this 29-year-old, contrary to sending out remote outpost in hawaii gets the stuff that i, the legal officer, cia, i couldn't have gotten to that when i was there. >> host: do you think it's created a worthwhile debate, as we wrap up here? >> guest: i think the debate is good on the data, and u.s. surveillance, and i think that's valuable and fruitful. i fish it came about a different way, and i don't think that would have happened without the snowden disclosure, but he disclosed so much else nothing to do with america or american constitution. i think that is huge di damage willing and rep

plaintiffs are required to submit their own meta data.onation to rally 10 million americans to support the lawsuit. 10 millions americans is a lot of americans. it would also be a lot of votes, which is probably why some other political organizations want in on the super lawsuit of the century, like freedom works. perhaps that is why the president of freedom works was standing right next to senator paul this afternoon as he announced his lawsuit. then again, maybe this is all just a reflection of genuine concern about the creeping surveillance state in our unchecked national security policy. >> if someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, i don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. maybe not. "the ed show" is up next. >>> good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. >> the volkswagen chattanooga plant is on its way to unionizing. >> could become the first foreign owned car factory in the united states with a union. >> some say the

defendants have without legitimate basis collective, stored, retained, periodically searched telephone meta dataed since may 2006 and the defendants continue to do so. so let me ask you about that. this is crucial. i you have to prove that to bring this case. the nsa collects 20% of the calls. do you have a question that yours are in there? >> the question of sanding is a legal question. there have been a report in the "wall street journal" saying that all of verizon's calls were collected, all of at&t's calls were collected. the actual legal standing, i'm not someone who will be able to make that determination. several people have gotten into court and have received standing. >> let me ask you this. cnn's senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin, you know about him as well, he talked about that issue and the class itself that you're claiming. here's how he phrased his issue. senator paul does not have a legal standing and no court will accept that with mlts of plaintiffs. i know you're saying you dispute the issue on standing. what about the issue of class. i'm looking out there. i did some quick w

defendants have without legitimate basis collective, stored, retained, periodically searched telephone meta datar received since may 2006 and the defendants continue to do so. so let me ask you about that. this is crucial. you have to prove that to bring this case. the nsa collects 20% of the american phone calls. do you have the proof that all of your calls, 100% of yours, are in that piece of the pie? >> the question of standing is a complicated legal question. the attorneys will have to sort that out. there have been a report in the "wall street journal" saying that all of verizon's calls were collected, all of at&t's calls were collected. the actual decision on legal standing, i'm just not someone who will be able to make that determination. there are been several cases that have gotten into the court and received for standing. our lawyers don't believe that standing will be a difficult argument. >> so let me ask you this, the cnn senior legal analysis jeffrey toobin talked about that issue and the issue of the class itself that you're claiming. here's how he phrased it. senator paul does no

reliable or is it just signal intelligence or cell you lar intelligence, the possibility of death by meta data that has to inform the president on what we should do. >> we're talking about overseas but the reason you make this because we can't get to him we will do this, you say to yourself, you think about it and you say, we can't let this guy kill americans if we know he's about to do it. okay, let's bring ourselves to the united states. what if you know another, let's say, dzhokhar tsarnaev is heading to boston to below someone up, can you make the stretch to that and say, we can do that, too. we have's got to stop this mass killing? >> it's the same constitutional standard, generally speaking, applies, irrespective of geography. whether they're located in yemen or in boston is of little relevance to the constitution. if he's going to be an imminent threat, up can't do away with the threat any other way than killing him, then lethal force is lawful under those circumstances. the question then becomes how do you know he's going to do this? what's the source of that information, how reliable

rand paul is suing president obama to try to stop the nsa from collecting so-called meta data, numbersnd times and durations on hundreds of millions of phone calls of united states citizens. and this is how he came out on these steps and put it into plain english for us last hour. >> good morning. on behalf of myself, freedom works and everyone in america that has a phone, we are filing suit against the president of the united states in defense of the fourth amendment. we will ask the question in court whether a single warrant can apply to the records of every american phone user all of the time, without limits, without individualization. >> so cnn's joe johns is on this story. joe, so categorize this for me and let me know exactly what it is we're looking at. is this mitts politics or really something of substance? >> i think it could be both, quite frankly. you saw senator rand paul there, also matt kiby of freedom works calling this the largest class action lawsuit. also of its kind on behalf of users, subscribers, customers, phone service in the united states since 2006. suing pres

>> to state our recommendation, we believe that the meta data, that is who the phone numbers are from, and -- who's calling whom and when, the government shouldn't be holding that data. in a free society, if we're engaged in a risk management exercise, there are undue risks to privacy and civil liberty with the government holding that data. we think that the information should be held privately, which has a safeguard against the risks of abuse which in american history have not been absent. not in the recent past, not in the last years, but under president nixon and president johnson there were risks from surveillance. and before. so we don't urge that the information should suddenly be held by the phone companies. that's not what we urge. the phone companies have that information. they hold it for consumer protection reasons, in large art. hey hold it because they don't want to be billing you for stuff that you're not responsible for. in fact, the federal communications commission, whose mission is not surveillance, requires that landlines at least, the phone records be kept for 18 m

to put the heat on president obama and the national security agency over collection of television meta datadates and times are calls, but not the content. >> this will be a historic lawsuit. it may well be the largest class action lawsuit ever filed on behalf of the bill of rights. >> an unusual lawsuit that goes after the president and director of national intelligence. the nsa and fbi was on behalf of customers, users and subscribers for 2006. paul wants the reports to declare them unconstitutional and order the government to purge the information from the system. the administration insists the program is legal. >> it is found to be lawful by multiple courts and receives oversight from all three branches of government, including the congress. >> is the lawsuit a good idea? >> our information should be private. >> the idea that anybody could be listening to my private life, it's a little bit creepy. >> it's a stunt to get attention. i doubt anything will happen with the lawsuit. >> there were cases involving the same legal question. whether the program violates your constitutional right. >

the images and associated meta- data were stored and subject to search using experimental facial recognition software. according to the documents, in one six-month period, the program collected images of nearly two million yahoo! users worldwide, including a number of sexually explicit communications. the optic nerve program did not discriminate between actual intelligence targets and innocent web-chatters. joining me to walk us through what they discovered is "guardian" reporter spencer akerman. spencer, how does this program work? >> so what happened was, is as part of its very broad abilities to collect data across the internet gchq collected a lot of information from users of this specific web cam service based out of yahoo!, messenger. and from there it went into databases that analyst kos use to comb through both the imagery and associated data around where those images came from to both find targets that it already had in its intelligence gathering purposes and figure out new targets. >> so you are saying that its he not just the targeted folks that got swept up in this net. what abou

talk about keeping us safe, that's what the nsa believes they're doing by collecting meta data.. but if that's to happen, then give to the world of terror? that's what they put it in place for. really george bush put it on steroids in 2001. now the president of the united states is only sporadically been defending the nsa and the comprehensiveness in which it's been functioning of late. yesterday another attack on the nsa. >> he may have to step up the defense on it because senator rand paul announced a historic class action lawsuit against president obama and intelligence officials over the nsa program. ken cuccinelli is listed as head attorney on the case and partnered with freedom works, who is co- listed as plaintiffs there. this is what rand paul had to say regarding the president's spying program and the nsa. he said, look, this is not paul revere running around. it's different. >> the president, when he talked about privacy recently, he said oh, this is like paul revere in the history of paul revere, warning us. but if paul revere wasn't saying the americans are coming, h

paul wants the federal courts to declare the meta data collection program unconstitutional, shut it down the administration insists the program is legal. >> it's been found to be lawful by multiple courts and it receives oversight from all three branches of government, including the congress. >> is the lawsuit a good idea? >> our information, i think it should be private. >> the idea that anybody could be listening to my private life, i kind of -- it's a little bit creepy. >> i think it's a stunt to get attention. i doubt -- >> reporter: there are already suits involving the same legal question blp it violates your constitutional right. >> the underlying legal question will have to be resolved by the federal courts some time soon. doesn't seem like senator paul's suit will be the vehicle through which the courts do it. >> reporter: complicating the legal issues is a behind the scenes spat over's the alleged hijacking of a prominent washington attorney's work. sources said conservative constitutional scholar bruce skin worked on it but his name was not on the document and ken cuccinelli w

to go to the phone companies and say we would like you to give to us what we call meta-data which is a fancy word if you look at your phone bill and it says this number call this particular number. this was borne out of 9/11 which was because two of the individual hijackers in san diego, we didn't know this at the time that we later found out they were in san diego but we were monitoring a safe house in yemen and had we been able to figure out that these particular safe house was calling a residence in san diego if we had access to the state we might have and this is not ironclad but just in the luster of the example of how the tool could have have helped and how 9/11 influence and essays collections efforts later but it could have helped to foretell the existence of other plotters in the united states. >> isn't it counter to that the cia had information that these guys were seceded with al qaeda and neither one was in the united states? >> if they called the fbi a year before 9/11 and said these people were living in san diego under the true name. it would have been a relatively eas

it calls into question the entire rationale for the meta- data collection program. as a matter of process, it really raises the question of credibility for the train the government and the records as nations -- and the representations it is made to the fisa court, the philly to correct a representation that it evidently made in 2006 that 100% of these records were going to be collected. representations made to the district court's that are currently considering this iss issue. to quote the deputy attorney general in testimony that he gave in july to congress, deputy attorney general james cole said in justification for this program, if you're looking for the needle in the haystack, you have to find -- you have to have the entire haystack to look through. end of quote. i'm just a country lawyer from connecticut, but if i went to a judge and, as a prosecutor, i did, and i said we need a search warrant to look at the whole house because we believe there may be incriminating evidence in this house and we need to search through every room, and that's why we are asking fo

>> to state our recommendation, we believe that the meta data, that is who the phone numbers are from, and -- who's calling whom and when, the government shouldn't be holding that data. in a free society, if we're engaged in a risk management exercise, there are undue risks to privacy and civil liberty with the government holding that data. we think that the information should be held privately, which has a safeguard against the risks of abuse which in american history have not been absent. not in the recent past, not in the last years, but under president nixon and president johnson there were risks from surveillance. and before. so we don't urge that the information should suddenly be held by the phone companies. that's not what we urge. the phone companies have that information. they hold it for consumer protection reasons, in large part. they hold it because they don't want to be billing you for stuff that you're not responsible for. in fact, the federal communications commission, whose mission is not surveillance, requires that landlines at least, the phone records be kept for 18

is it fair to say from your report that the meta- data collection program is unjustifiable under the existing law? >> yes. >> it isn't consistent with section 215. >> so in order to continue it, if the congress chooses to do so, we would have to change the statute. >> that is the view although they would also counsel that even if you change the statute and resolve the statutory issues there are still serious constitutional issues and very serious policy issues relating the balancing security with privacy and civil liberties and given that there are alternative legal authority is to be used, the majority preference would be to use the other legal authorities. >> to scrap 215 and rely on the alternative authority. >> has the panel reached any conclusion in terms of timing as to whether our consideration perhaps the revision of 215 or other authorities should wait for resolution by the united states supreme court on some of these issues that may come before it indicates is that are now in the lower court? >> i can address that specifically but given the legal and policy concerns, i thin

google says in the first six months of 2013, they gave the government internet meta data on 1,000 customersed off by the jeopardy whiz using a unique strategy to keep you his winning streak. >> i'm returning champion arthur chiou from broadview heights. watch me on jeopardy. >> chiou has won jeopardy three times by picking harder, big money questions first. he searches for the game's daily double questions before moving on to another category, leaving his opponents with little to play. chiou returns to the show later this month. those are your headlines. >> thank you very much. >>> ever wonder if your old toys were worth anything? there is a tv show to help you cash in. >> yep. toy hunter in its third season and he joins us with toys he brought. >> these were all in my attic. that's how lucky i am. >> what gives toys value? >> it's that whole pop culture reference, that whole sort of did i have it as a kid type of reference. that's really what makes it valuable to folks. >> s in staling i can't. >> it's huge! nostalgia is huge! they want that happy feeling from when they were kids. >> i had