what i forsee is that these two programs the very light touch on american privacy created by the metadata telephone program and the prism program and my personal judgment they both go forward i mean they already have bright wide bipartisan support they will continue but what we have been talking about here today and what my countrymen and people around the world have been talking about for the for the past two weeks that will generate a global discussion about what is the meaning of privacy in an internet era what are the true rules what are the legitimate expectations of privacy in a world in which everyone is connected to look i had i had an advisory board at cia and i would give them tough problems and one of the tough problems i gave them was this question of security and transparency and here's how i framed the question i said will the united states be able to conduct espionage in the future inside a broader political culture that every day demanded more transparency and more public accountability from every aspect of national life and they studied the problem and they came back to m

your opinion no i you know i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective but the effectiveness may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again ever serious now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them can tell you something though as much as prison is huge and it has turned america into a database platform for all it's access to facebook google yahoo microcell i mean that's are not brothers on lennox tentative prior to the boston bombing are you guys maybe casting the net to the white. well actually the sun i asked were not detected by any program like this in the sun i use were not detected because prism isn't suitable for detecting the kind of communications that sister and i have brothers had prior to the boston bombing i mean prism is about for

what i forsee is that these two programs the very light touch on american privacy created by the metadata telephone program and the prism program and my personal judgment they both go forward i mean they already have bright wide bipartisan support they will continue but what we have been talking about here today and what my countrymen and people around the world have been talking about for the for the past two weeks that will generate a global discussion about what is the meaning of privacy in an internet era what are the true rules what are the legitimate expectations of privacy in a world in which everyone is connected to look i had i had an advisory board at cia and i would give them tough problems and one of the tough problems i gave them was this question of security and transparency and here's how i framed the question i said will the united states be able to conduct espionage in the future inside a broader political culture that every day demanded more transparency and more public accountability from every aspect of national life and they studied the problem and they came back to m

>> on the metadata program, the 205 program -- excuse me, candy, it's 215. a lot of numbers flying around. on 215 everything i know is that it's metadata being collected. on the 702, so-called prism program, content is being intercepted and americans are being swept up in that program. and i've been calling for a clear policy there as well. but my focus this week has been on all the phone records that are being accumulated without americans knowledge. >> one of the things we went back and looked at was the fisa court that was set up to make sure that when the government wants to go specifically look at something that they have court approval for it. there were almost 1,800 applications for authorities to conduct electronic surveillance last year. 40 of them were modified by the courts, but none of them were turned down. what does that say to you about court? >> the court is operating under the law. the court is operating under the direction, if you will, of the law. the administration works with the court. my concern isn't so much with the court, but it's wit

when in your opinion now i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective but the effectiveness may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again adversaries now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them. snowden's revelations have earned him a place in an exclusive clue club a group of people who have upset washington by leaking the names of some of his most sensitive information here is the name now that stands clear u.s. private bradley manning facing life in prison as he's charged with aiding the enemy after exposing the u.s. controversial war tactics to wiki leaks if snowden is charged with a violation of espionage he may face a similar fate thomas drake another prominent whistleblower managed to escape jail time after his case collapsed in court

when in your opinion now i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective but the effectiveness may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again adversaries now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them. new york based attorney chashma dar has written a book about bradley manning another well known u.s. whistleblower and he joins me now live to discuss edward snowden's possible fate thanks for joining us here on our t.v. so snowden has allegedly gotten a refugee status in ecuador what kind of legal guarantees or rights does that give him now. well that would be entirely up to the ecuadorian government like many nation in the world their record free speech of freedom of the press is not to maculata however they do have very good record for hard here an

in your opinion no i yeah i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective but the effect of this may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again adversaries now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them. and you can see that interview in full on screen and online here on r.t. well it's speculation rages over whether it would snowden is this take a step back now and see what he could possibly do where he could possibly go if he is not on board that have done a plane where would be known the studios are correspondent and you know so what options does snowden have now if he's not on that plane actually he's got plenty of options i mean you have to understand that we're a lot we're talking about a former cia operative who probably has given it more thoug

when your opinion now i yeah i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective. but the effectiveness may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again adversaries now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them. and that interview in full rundown altie don't come no financial guru mexico he's a springtime of that and he explains why he thinks hong kong felt safe to ignore america's extradition request for snowden well china's got a fantastic card to play one trillion us dollars that they can dump on the market anytime and jack interest rates in america up by five or six points which would throw that real estate market back into collapse china is pulling the strings here china's got all the cards to play america is the biggest debtor nation in the world so i

when your opinion no i yeah i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective but the effectiveness may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again adversaries now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them. well the speculation rages over when edward snowden is let's take a step back and see what he could possibly do where he could go if he is north. of the plane well ortiz correspondent linda glasgow she's with me now in the studio so it is interesting if he's not on the plane then what options does he have well i don't know if it's kind of a game of catch him if you can and it is it looks like the u.s. authorities may actually have a good options or good options on the table because snowden actually has several options as far as it goes as far as leavi

programs both the phone program and the metadata program and there are these courts but there's also an ethical consideration and a lot of people are saying even if congress has authorized it it's against the spirit of the united states constitution it's against the spirit of privacy and how can the government need complete access to all of the phone calls to all of the metadata from google and facebook and all of these others and it just sounds too much i was actually in the united states at the time in north america time when this broke and the first reaction was just shock it was just a bomb so people couldn't believe the scope of this program. so legally he did something wrong and the united states is going to do everything it can to bring him to justice are they going to get him that's an almost impossible question to answer you know we just heard that he's in moscow he may be en route to somewhere else you know it's certainly going to do everything they can to legally quote unquote bring in the justice ethically it's a big big debate in the united states right now you know agai

this is a metadata program. stop terrorist attacks. >> patriot act section 215, 702 and the president's classified cyber operations directive on strength of leaking that, yes, that would be a prosecutorable offense and i think be prosecuted. >> david snowden tells us u.s. has been hacking china's computers for years now. joining us is kelly o'donnell. explain what is expected. again, this is a closed door, private briefing but it's happening as we speak. >> reporter: well, there are a couple different briefings going on because there's a real sense among officials that there has been too much misinformation, even among members of congress who have misunderstood the programs or were not fully briefed. part of what they're doing is having these behind the scene sessions so there can be candid sessions and answers. we're learning more in the public setting where you saw general alexander and the two top heads of the house intelligence committee talking about something they'd like to see done. they want more of what

disrupting terrorist plots. >> it's unclear to me that we've developed any intelligence through the metadata program that's led to the disruption of plots we couldn't have developed through other data and other intelligence. >> do you agree with that? >> no, i don't. i'll use the zazi case, the bombings, the plot to blow up trains in new york. a terrorist phone number was obtained, and they plugged it into this database. remember, there's no names and no addresses in it. they had a known terrorist that had a phone number that appeared to be domestic in the united states. so overseas, looked like he was talking to somebody in the united states. they plugged that number in and found two connections, one in, i believe, san diego and one in new york city. again, no names, no addresses. so they take that and say, that's concerning when you have a known terrorist communicating in a network that looks in these two places. they handed that over to the fbi. the fbi conducts its investigation just to determine who owns those phone numbers, by the way, which is a whole other series of protections built in, and

need your opinion now i yeah i would see no reason why either the programs that he revealed the metadata program or the prism program why they would be stopped there lawful they're appropriate they're affective. but the effectiveness may be the element that's most harmed by these revelations again adversaries now know what we can do and also know what we won't do the boundaries of american law and policy and that gives them a higher probability that they'll be able to protect their communications from united states agencies trying to intercept them. and you can watch the program in full on our web site right now at r.t. don't come so is edward snowden a hero or villain most of discuss that i'm joined by former u.s. state department official and right where do you stand villain or hero. well i think it's all in the good of the country and the world that we know what's going on for the fact that that these programs that edward snowden has made. they're a prominent in our psyche now that our governments are looking into every aspect of our lives and i think it's important that we know that but you'

>> well, there's no evidence that these sorts of metadata collection programs actually work in the terrorism context. we've been collecting this information for over a decade now in the post-9/11 world. neither the past administration or this one has been able to give a single example of how this information has caught a terrorist attack before it happens. >> when you have disparate interests like mike rogers and dianne feinstein both telling the american people, in fact, i'll show it to you. yesterday congressman mike rogers who's the chair of the house intelligence committee put it frankly. he said these programs are necessary and, in fact, are responsible for thwarting a terrorist attack. here it is. >> that within the last few years this program was used to stop a program, excuse me, stop a terrorist attack in the united states. we know that. it's important. it fills in a little seam that we have. >> so respectfully when you say that there's no evidence that they've been successful, you can listen to senator feinstein. you can listen to congressman rogers. these are the folks who are get

the laws of the unit states the program have been carried out with extensive oversight from ports, independent inspectors general -- congress. lou: fuller added that metadatallection program. had it been in place earlier, that attacks niks like 9/11 migt and preparing toelease full list of terrorist attks thwarted by government survllan data this m monday, senato ron white whether mark udal ctradict it. muelr ensed hseudiciary committee that the fs taking allesry steps to hold mitted nsa leakerdwd snowde responsib for exposingthe nature of government secret surveilnce prrams, today of's hearings proving insight to what fbi director does,nd does not know ou the fbi's invtigation into scandals plagug ts president. in pticular the irs scandal in which i officials targeted conservative and tea party groups f direc struggled in his resnses to congrsman jim jordan, who asked the director a straightforward question thad to this heated standoff. >> telle who the lead instigator is. >> i will just m head no om the most important iue youo not kno who the lead vestigate or s. >> io n know. we would like to know. >> we would like to know ho many pple have you assigned

programs. he's also said we shouldn't worry about it so much because it's only metadata and we started here about in program. here's what metadata g it's not a call to and from it's the location of the callers. there are a number of other things and it has to do with building a social network profile so that you know, if i know all your calls and your locations, i know whether, i know where you live, where you work, whether you're going to a cancer clinic, whether you're having an affair. what your political associations are. met pa data are very powerful. if i had a choice, i would rather have anybody sort of listening in on all my calls than have all my metadata. >> the question is what good is the metadata if they know all that but they don't know what the name is, they don't know who you are. they claim at least from the president on down is, there are numbers against numbers. they have no value unless you run them against something. what are you going to run them against, against a known are terrorists. then you have to go get -- attach some process tight. >> is it accurate, though. first of

this is a metadata program. these programs are to help us stop terrorist attacks about the compliance regime that we have and how carefully that is done and overseen by congress, the administration's the courts and how important this is to our nation. and finally we are working with the committees to provide damage assessments. this will be led by the intelligence community about the damage that these leaks have caused not only to our agency but to this nation and the impact of that and then a path forward. we have pledged to be as transparent as possible in this case and we want to do that. we want to provide the american people the information. i think it's important that you have that information but we don't want to risk american lives in doing that. so what we are being is very deliberate in this process so that we don't end up causing a terrorist attack are giving out too much information. so that is the deliberate process that we have had. i will tell you i've been working with this committee for the past

>> well, there's no evidence that these sorts of metadata collection programs actually work in the terrorism context. we've been collecting this information for over a decade now in the post-9/11 world. neither the past administration or this one has been able to give a single example of how this information has caught a terrorist attack before it happens. >> when you have disparate interests like mike rogers and dianne feinstein both telling the american people, in fact, i'll show it to you. yesterday congressman mike rogers who's the chair of the house intelligence committee put it frankly. he said these programs are necessary and, in fact, are responsible for thwarting a terrorist attack. here it is. >> that within the last few years this program was used to stop a program, excuse me, stop a terrorist attack in the united states. we know that. it's important. it fills in a little seam that we have. >> so respectfully when you say that there's no evidence that they've been successful, you can listen to senator feinstein. you can listen to congressman rogers. these are the folks who are get

programs. how that telephone metadata is then collated and used with this other foreign surveillance capabilitieshat's really the issue in dispute and we didn't hear much in this explanation so far of how those two programs have interacted. >> let me just ask you about the other three programs, or other three instances. one that they said was someone named kahlid ozani. early plans to bomb a new york exchange. other one is david hedley, another one in chicago, talking about the mumbai attacks, and the danish newspaper plot. those are the ones that did the cartoons of the prophet mohammed. and yet, the fourth example, contacts with someone in the united states with terrorist overseas. so disrupt a plot. anything there that we've heard before? that you know of? >> well, certainly, the hedley case got a lot of attention and led to criminal trial in chicago. >> but nothing he detailed that we have not heard before. >> no. what we heard for the first time here, although alluded to last week, was the aversion that 702 surveillance programs led to hedley. there's been separate reporting that british int

t is not just this metadata program. at we may be in syria and what we have done in pakistan and what president bush did with respect to his wiretapping program. there's too much happening as we try to protect ourselves from terrorist attacks. if the united states public does not know this. we need to have a more important discussion that is broader about the level of classified and covert activities happening today which i would argue is that a different level than what we might of seen 15-20 years ago. host: how much information should senators have? you don't sit on the intelligence committee and you are a freshman senator. should you have access to the same information that members who sit on the committee have? should be distributed more equally? guest: should have more information. i cannot tell you whether we should have the exact same information. there's a reason why we sit on the intelligence committee. with 535 members of congress, there was a worry that of every single one of them had full access to classified

the discussions we are -- the programs we are discussing today, however, direct the content and metadata directly to the nsa after the department of justice or the fbi obtained fisa court orders to compel corporate cooperation and production of documents. in this capacity, nsa is operating as a technical service provider of so sorts, receivinge information directly but on behalf of the fbi and analyzing the information under the fbi's own jurisdictional activities. the foreign information surveillance act or fisa act is a 1978 law that's been modified several times. it was designed for procedures for electronic surveillance and collection of foreign intelligence information between foreign powers, agents of foreign powers as well as information related to terrorism activities since september 11th. the original act was created to provide judicial and congressional oversight on covert intelligence activities. the fisa court is made up of 11 federal judges who have been appointed by the chief justice to serve seven-year terms. only one party appears with the department of justice presenting

bush, has defended the surveillance program in the collection of metadata. he described metadata as "like knowing what is on the outside of an envelope." susan landau, your response to that? >> that is not really true. that was the case when we had black telephones that weighed several pounds and sat on the living room table and you knew there was a phone call from one house to another house. not everybody carries cellphones with them. so the data, when i call you, i know i'm talking to you but i've no idea where you are. the phone company who has the data now, and that is far more revealing than what is on the outside of an envelope. as i said earlier, it is what you do, not what you say. because we're a caring cellphones and making calls all during the day, it is very regulatory. >> can you explain the significance of location data? can the government's map a person's whereabouts through this metadata? >> of course. politics is four data points to be 95% sure who the person is -- all it takes is four data points to be 95% sure who the person is. you know w

and then if you start looking at those, how many used the metadata program specifically? well, the majority, we believe. so, six or seven? what are those cases? finding someone who had been donating money to ouster bob, the ethiopian terror group, and of course, absolutely find and prosecute those people -- shabab, theey to al ethiopian terror group. a is not clear that that is terror event. zazi found through an e-mail address. not clear why a more targeted use of that would not have been possible. there is another case involving the supposed lot bomb of the new york stock exchange. was it a serious plot? said,rector of the fbi the jury thought it was serious because they were all convicted. it turns out that there was no jury trial. the people were convicted of the essential support of a terrorist organization. again, money. the new york exchange part of it seems to be that the u.s. person scoped out several terrorist targets. it appears to have been abandoned. the u.s. attorney who works that case said there was no specific lot. -- plot. i think we should treat with sk

program. >> information collected called metadata does not monitor what was said in the call,, but the show when it happened, how long it lasted, and the number dialed. very intimately what your relationships are like. what secrets you have. >> in a memo we obtain, verizon had no comment. eric holder deflected questions at a capitol hill hearing. >> this is not an appropriate see heading -- setting. to protect it is, american people, we have to protect our liberty at the same time. on thetop republican house intelligence committee says the nsa phone record collection has stopped a terror attack in the last few years. he would not give any details about it. thank you. still ahead, for anyone considering plastic surgery, a huge drawback. >> and the procedure cuts on recovery time and gives a more natural look. how the stem cell face look works. >> a firing capitol hill brings 100 firefighters to the scene. which historic beer -- details at five >> a fiery scare for the nation's capital, when a fire erupted near capitol hill. the smoke could be seen for miles behind the library of congress and

and then if you start looking at those, how many used the metadata program specifically? well, the majority, we believe. so, six or seven? what are those cases? finding someone who had been donating money to al-shabaab, the ethiopian terror group. it is not clear that that is a terror event. zazi found through an e-mail address. not clear why a more targeted use of that would not have been possible. there is another case involving the supposed lot bomb of the new york stock exchange. was it a serious plot? the director of the fbi said, the jury thought it was serious because they were all convicted. it turns out that there was no jury trial. the people were convicted of the essential support of a terrorist organization. again, money. the new york exchange part of it seems to be that the u.s. person scoped out several terrorist targets. it appears to have been abandoned. the u.s. attorney who works that case said there was no specific lot. -- plot. i think we should treat with skepticism if these are the showpiece cases they are bringing up to justify the old collection of

last week, president obama said nsa programs that examine phone and internet records only look at what's called metadata>> cbs news national security analyst juan believes snowden may be overstating what he had access to. >> but there's no question the national security agency, the u.s. government hadz access to lots of information, and these leaks have revealed the big data that it has access to. >> snowden says he knows these disclosure haves put him at risk. he is now reportedly in hong kong. in new york, erica ferrari kpix 5. >> he's hoping to get asylum in a country that values privacy. it hasn't heard directly from him yet but will do what it can to help him. >>> well, the shooting rampage in santa monica has claimed another victim. 26-year-old santa monica college student marcela franco was gravely wounded in friday's attack. she died today at ucla medical center. franco is the fifth person toe die from the ten-minute shooting spree. she and her 68-year-old father carlos were shot as they drove to the school. >>> a woman injured in the shooting spree is telling her story. deborah was driving home

. >> but president obama said last week nsa programs that examined phone and internet records only look at what's called metadata and do not target individual americans without a court order. >> nobody is listening to your telephone calls. that's not what this program is about. >> lawmakers both defended and slammed the surveillance practices on the sunday talk shows. >> i can tell you this, these programs are within the law. >> don't troll through a billion phone records every day. that is unconstitutional. it invades our privacy. >> the government began analyzing phone and internet records after 9/11. intelligence officials say the practices have prevented terrorist attacks, including a plot to bomb the new york city subways in 2009. every ka ferari for cbs news new york. >> snowden says he's now in hong kong because that country has a greater commitment to free speech. >>> thousands of people gather to celebrate one of oefk land's favorite outdoor attractions today. it was love our lake day at the cleaned up and newly-improved section of lake merit. kpix 5 was there where it was a day to join the beauty of th

that the obama administration allowed him to sp records, covering the internet metadata according to the newspaper. the programorded email and ip addresses which can be analyzed to know an individual's interest and pattern of behavior on the web, adding it was shut down two years ago. while not addressing the new investigation of domestic surveillance for a program that doesn't exist anymore, the nsa director said the system is more secure. >> there's clearly actions that were taken to prevent a future leak. we've taken that's right off the get-go in terms of protecting our networks, all the things that you would expect us to do, we're doing, and more. >> on that list to justify these controversial data collection programs, alexander also explained that it's actually 42 alleged plots in a dozen cases where individuals were accused of providing money or aiding terrorists in some other way. harris? >> catherine, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> the acting head of the irs back on capitol hill today. he recently said the agency targeted liberal groups, too, not just conservative ones, but tonight inspect

ask the nsa director says the surveillance programs have disrupted terrorist watch by clicking metadata on phone calls and tracking internet activity. disappearance and possibly murder. >> a new lead in the disappearance of jimmy hoffa. now just a little bit safer thanks to these signs. >> the fbi is searching a field for the remains of former teamsters leader jimmy hoffa. they executed a search warrant in oakland township. authorities are hoping to find the remains of jimmy hoffa, the teamsters leader who went missing in 1975. his disappearance is one of the biggest unsolved mysteries. it is believed that that interviews with an aging mobster led to the war in. he was told about it by a mafia enforcer. authorities are getting closer to pinpointing what caused that massive wildfire in colorado. there were no lightning strikes so the fire must have been caused by a person or a me sheen. it is reported two unidentified people who were trying to flee were found dead in the rubble. being described as the most destructive wildfire ever. only some of the residents are being allowed to return

but metadata can be quite sensitive. if you imagine a program under which every american had to at the end of each day submit to the government a list of the people they had called, how long those conversations were. where they were when those conversations took place, i don't think anybody would stand for it. that's exactly this program. the only difference is the government did it in secret. >> that civil servant would be bored to tears with my list. let pe get your reaction. when it comes to the supreme court, 1979, smith vs. maryland regarding the 4th amendment and search and seizures, the supreme court, you know, has held that there is no legitimate expectation of privacy for phone records that are held by a third party which can be seized without a warrant. again, that for the meta, not for the content. my question to you is when a lot of people hear of what's going on, they hear it's meta, they sort of think, that's a slippery sloan, ain't it? is it? >> well, it is a slippery slope. i don't want people to accept that meta data is not sens

congress to drill down a little bit and find out exactly what's happening with regard to prison program, metadataage to find out more about how these programs are operating. >> senator, on that score, you know, last week, every kaim company kaim came out and denied involvement in the program. now that you have been briefed on it, who is el thing the truth? >> well, look, i think that a lot of the information that we're receiving right now. i was in a classified setting last week, so it's hard to talk a lot about it. that's why i think we have an issue here. i think we need to figure out what can be declassified, what in terms of additional oversight we can do so that members of congress and the american public are more informed, respecting the fact that there are certain classified elements of tease programs that need to be preserved in order to progressive conservative americans. but i think, andrew, i'd be one, i'm sure i have a lot of colleagues here who would like to find out more about this program and its broad application, which is something i think most of us were aware thing were being d

on the business records program, the general pfizer court order allows you to get the metadata from the communications providers. then, when there are reasonable facts, you can go and see if one of the numbers has a match in the metadata. on those 300 or so occasions when you do that, does that require separate court approval, or does the general pfizer court order allowing you, when your analysts have the facts, to make that query? in other words, every time you make the query, does that have to be approved by the court? >> we do not have to get separate court appearance for each query. the court sets out the standard that must be met in order to make the query in its order, and that is in the primary order. that is what we ought it in a very robust way, in number of different facets through the executive branch, and give it to the court and give it to the congress. we are given the 90 days with these parameters and restrictions to access it. we do not go back to the court each time. >> and does the court scrutinize, after you present back to the court, these are the occasions where we

should be applied, and there is somebody who applies oversight will stop under the metadata records captured by the program there is a very special court-defined process by which that is done. those are all subject to the ig, the inspector general, review on a general basis, such that we can look at the procedures as defined, the procedures as executed, reconcile the two, and make sure that is done exactly right. there are periodic reports the ig has to produce, and they are faithfully reported. i think the real checks and balances have been between nsa, the department of justice, the director of national intelligence. the department of defense enters that as well. they have intelligence oversight mechanisms. between those components, rigorous oversight varies in what they look for. the fisa is a particularly rigorous authority, but they all have checks and balances that transcend nsa. if i can add to that, i refer you to a recent review by the doj inspector general on the 702 program that was highly complementary of the checks and balances that were in place. >> let me turn my attention now to programs th

metadata. that's all that program talks about.o any program that we have -- and, senator feinstein, if you want to get that content, you'd have to get a court order. in any of these programs, you know we have programs for doing that with oversight by the congress, by the courts and by the administration. so hi concern in all this is that i think that this is an area where we have to give you both the details, and i think we need this for the american people. they need to understand it so they can see what we're doing and what the results of it. i do think that's important. i also believe, you know, we had this debate several times, and senator durbin brought it up, from 2001 on. and this is one now where we need to bring out because of these leaks the rest of the story, show what we do, what it protects the country from, and have the debate. does it make sense. and so that's part -- in order to do that, i think what we have to give you is the rest of that data. tomorrow we'll put that in a classified session, but the intelligent w

is a really important program, a limited program with foreign targets but the metadata collection of everybody's telephone numbers, while helpful in some of these instances that they have been testifying to, is perhaps too broad and that that needs to be revisited. what do you think of that? >> i'm not sure about that. americans have to understand we're in chapter 1 of a long book. it is not about intelligence. it is how do you understand a human being in a conspiracy. when you can look quickly at someone's atm records, phone data, what they've done on facebook, in contrast say to 30 years ago when you had to go on the ground, i can look at a picture of a person's life within a day and help me understand whether there might and conspiracy afoot and that will accelerate over time, i think. >> but the counterpoint to that would be, you can look at a person and find out whether they have a serious illness that they are not disclosing to people, whether they have a marital problem, personal information is embedded in all of this and they could be totally innocent. >> i think that's right

program. the verizon metadata telephone information effort was changed in 2006 and the prism program came outintelligence surveillance act of 2008. so essentially, what we're doing now, was established within the bush administration. president obama and folks like me are very happyp that he did it. president obama continued this program and somewhat to his credit, widened the circle of the number of legislatures on capitol hill who had direct access to what nsa is doing. >> there are calls for transparency, calls for changing to the law, to the program. how would you suggest, sir, we move forward here, especially the white house and those in charge of these programs, how to mitigate the damage this has done to questions of trust ands the questions that's raised in terms of our national security? >> well, there are serious tradeoffs to be made here, mika. i agree with general alexander. making more -- having made this part public is harmful. making more public is harmful. it will shave points off of our operational capabilities. i also know, mika, we operate in a democracy. we don't get to do

surveillance program for weeks now we have known that the n.s.a. collects phone metadata on millions of people including americans well it turns out the government agency was also collecting e-mail that data and had been doing so from two thousand and one to two thousand and eleven that's according to a top secret draft report by the n.s.a.'s inspector general now the government says it has since stopped those practices but documents obtained by the guardian revealed that the n.s.a. has the ability to start new programs to essentially do the same thing we are also getting more insight into the american public's reaction to the surveillance scandal according to a recent rescues and poll seventy two percent of likely u.s. voters think it is somewhat likely that the n.s.a. monitored the private communications of congress military leaders and judges of those forty five percent believe that it is very likely mean. while fifty seven percent of voters believe it is likely that the n.s.a. data will be used by other government agencies to harass political opponents and finally six

metadata. that's all that program talks about. any program that we have -- senator feinstein, if you want to get the content, you would have to get a court order. in any of these programs, we have court orders for doing that with oversight by congress, the courts and the administration. my concern is i think this is an area where we have to give you both the details -- the american people need to understand it's a vacancy but we're doing and what the results are. -- so they can understand it and what the results are. we had this debate several times. this is one where we need to bring out the rest of the story, show what we do, what it protects the country from,a nd have the debate. that's part -- to do that, we have to give you the rest of that data. tomorrow we will put that in a classified session with the intent to get as much out in public so everybody has the information. the reason i hesitate here is i don't want to make a mistake that causes the statements i have for our country to lose some form of protection and we get h

government collected bulk metadata on the e-mails of millions of americans for about 10 years. under a program that fell under the overall nsa domestic surveillance operation known as stellar wind, the government swept up information including e-mail accounts and ip addresses, but not the content of the messages themselves. the program began my targeting e-mails with at least one party outside the u.s., but expanded in 2007 to domestic messages. the obama ministration continue the effort after taking office before shutting it down in 2011. the disclosures confirm the claims of william bennett, the career nsa official turned whistleblower. he said the nsa took an electronic surveillance or graham he developed and used it to conduct mass surveillance on national scale free at he resign from the nsa in 2001 in opposition to what he called illegal spying reedit according to the guardian, the collection of internet metadata appears to trigger the famed march 2004 confrontation in the hospital room of then attorney general john ashcroft and he refused to sign off on the reauthorizing the warrantless

but we're not just talking about metadata, but the prison system which you described in this programdescribed so well in the guardian article, the way they get the content of emails, et cetera, and others of american citizens and people around the world. that has not been approved. i hope it never would be. i don't take as my judge what the courts do with regard to these kinds of issues, particularly in the face of the war and terror. what we have is an illegal program because it is hacking into people all over the world, and that is illegal, and under their domestic laws and our domestic laws, you cannot do that. these programs are not legal in any way i can see. whatever we think of that in any case, as others have said so strongly, this ought to be brought out in debated. we are in a critical next decade for the rest of our lives -- of what the rest of our lives are going to be transparent for the government to see so they can transmit information to every government there close to, when they want to stop the it, etc.tion, stop they claim there were 50 cases, and they came up with