mexico, do you mind if i send them back to mexico. those people are out. they're going to be out so fast your head will spin. the rest, we're going to do -- remember, you used the word. illegal immigrant. you should use it that. 's what the definition is. well, when they cross the border from a legal stand point, they're illegal when they don't have their papers. and i want to make it possible -- and i think you'll like this -- i want these people, the good people, i want them to come back. and i want them to get documentation and get -- so they become legal. it's going to be -- you know what it's called? management. see you're not used to good management. you're always talking about government. government, let me just tell you, wait, wait, wait. government is incompetent. guys like bush and some others that i won't name, they're incompetent people. they don't have it. i'll agree. they can't do it. but i'm a great manager. i know how to manage things. when i look at the vets, when i look at the va, we spend billions of dollars and that will work great. what we're doing here will work great. and we want to get good people back in. and, also, let me just tell you, i've given you specifics. great management and they're going to hopefully come back in very soon. >> so that is the moment that everyone is talking about tonight. so, joining me now is ronald kessler and author of the first family detail. also, republican strategist brett o'donnell who is an advisor to senator lindsay graham. so i just want to get this moment in the exchange in here. just your reaction to that and then we'll move on. first, ronald? >> well, above all, donald comes across as likable. and he talks in the vernacular, the words that people understand. but i like to go behind if scenes. and what i've found, knowing him since 1988, going down to his club and home in palm beach with my wife pam on his plane, spending a wreak espend ing a weekend with him is behind the scenes, he's very different. his top aide tell me there are tw two donald trumps. one is the outrageous one who makes provocative comments to gain attention and the other is the real donald who is a very savvy businessman. >> we can talk more about him, but just what do you make of this moment? >> i think it's a plus for domd. he comes across as commanding, the way ronald reagan did in the press conference that you saw earlier. >> all right, kaylee? >> donald trump prevailed in that exchange. ramos fails to understand a very basic point, that donald trump forced him to acknowledge. we have illegal imgrants in this country. it's the minority, but we have some dangerous illegal immigrants in this country that have to leave. that when they are deported, they have to stay abroad. >> brett? >> well, i think for a republican primary voter, especially the ones that donald trump is trying to appeal to, this is a big win for him tonight. it shows him being strong, fighting the liberal media and coming out on top. the exchange really went donald trump's way. now, whether or not that's good for the general election, i think, is another question given his staassistance on immigratio and hispanics. he continues to do himself damage there. >> connie? >> so i think most people would look at that and say oh, this is a press guy going after someone. and so they kind of like that mix-up when a politician or spn running for office gives it back to him. the problem is, with donald trump, is you have to look at it in the -- you know, with if proper backdrop. >> but just that moment, as an observer. >> no, no, no. you can't look at it just as a moment. >> i understand that. bud if you're watching that moment on television, i'm just asking you what you think of the moment and then we can go on and discuss more nuance. >> then i think donald trump looked like he won that exchange. but he did have control of the mic. >> okay. so, connie, let's mooufd on now. you said that trump would be done after the first gop debate after he wouldn't rule out a third party candidacy. he's not only still in this race, but he's at the top of every poll. so how are you thinking he did? >> i still think he's done. you know the term jumping the shark. i think he's jumped at the shark. i think he's done. i think he's fired. whatever provocative language people want to use. unfortunately, there's a lot of -- there's a lot of pent up anger out there. and people might say they're going to support donald trump, they're not going to vote for donald trump. they're not going to vote for a bully. they're not going to vote for someone who's going to go to the wli white house and scream and yell and call people names. this is not what the president of the united states is about. they're not going to support a guy like that. >> okay. so, then -- go ahead. >> i think it's just the opposite. he comes across as someone who would instill fear in other countries because he is so commanding and strong. and, also, someone who would reassure businesses that they're not going to be overregulated, so they could expand. >> that is not true. that is not what he says to other businesses is if you don't like it, i'll sue you. this is not a blank forum. >> no, he didn't make $10 billion by being an idiot, you know. >> but he has filed for bankruptcy what? four times? just because he has a lot of money knows how he got it. >> i didn't have enough time with dillen because i had to get to the top of the show. i have to hit certain marks at times. but, also, donald trump has said repeatedly that filing for bankruptcy was a tool in business that he used and it should not be looked upon as something that is negative. listen, i'm not a business person, but go on and discuss. >> that works for donald. but it doesn't work for everybody else. you can't make up the rules as you go. >> i think in talking act his bankruptcies he's entirely missing the point. donald trump is hitting into the passion of the everyday american who is sitting at home and they're sick of the deviciveness around the country. when donald trump ended his speech today and said the american dream is failing and i want to bring it back, he is reaching into the heart of what everyone cares about. it's not his bankruptcies. it's the passion he brings to the state. >> i want to talk about the fact that same clovis, who just stepped down, introduced donald trump. joined his campaign wlach. what do you read into that? >> donald trump is spending lots of money to get the kind of staff that he needs to run a traditional, credible campaign in the early states. but, you know what, donald trump is going to keep going until -- you know, i don't think that he is finished. i always think he'll have a certain amount of support. bumd what will finish him is when a credible candidate, in the republican field, stands up and takes him on and calls him out on some of these issues. >> so who is that? that's not jeb bush? jeb bush is not a credible candidate? >> well, i think he is. and i think he had started to do the right thing this week, which is to call donald trump out on his plans. to say look, what you're proposing isn't skredble. we all share the same frustration. bernie sanders is doing that. that's why hillary clinton is not doing as well as expected. people are very sfrus rated. if people stand up and say look, i get it, i get that we're frustrate where had the immigration system. but this guy is a phony. >> everyone stay with me. when we come right back, donald trump feuding with everybody. but is he telling voters exactly what they want to hear? and is it working? in the nation, we know how it feels when you aren't treated like a priority. we do things differently. we'll take care of it. we put members first. join the nation. thank you. ♪ nationwide is on your if you struggle you're certainly not alone. fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. invokana® can cause important side effects, including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections urinary tract infections, changes in urination, high potassium in the blood, or increases in cholesterol. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis. stop taking and call your doctor right away if you experience symptoms such as rash, swelling, or difficulty breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about any medical conditions, medications you are taking, and if you have kidney or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. >>> his last name? why? because he's ashamed of him. why? if i were marco, but, in particular, if i was jeb, i wouldn't say marco was a good friend of mine. marco did something he wruasn't supposed to do. i've never said this before. and i've watched these two guys and they're hugging and kissing and they're holding each other. sort of like what chris christie did with the president. >>> i'm only kidding. >>> no, but they're hugging and they're kissing. they're hugging and they're kissing and they're proclaiming their great, deep love for each other. and i'm saying politicians, all talk, no action, it's all bull. we need people that are going to take us to the promise land. >> so back with me now, connie, you're a supporter of donald trump. he's talking about jeb bush. jeb bush is not even -- you're a supporter of jeb bush, excuse me. so the question is jeb bush is not even close to donald trump in the polls. why is donald trump punching down? >> because he probably knows that he's on the wrong side of this, as well. if he's smart, he knows it. you know, i just -- i think he just flailing at anything and anything that gets hinl attention, he'll do it. and if he gets to call out jeb, that gets him attention and he's willing to do it. he's not a serious candidate. it's all about the show. he's a promoter. he doesn't have any real ideas and the ideas he has now weren't the real ideas that he had even five years ago. this is a guy that doesn't know where he stands, doesn't nope what he believes in. he can't win in a general election. >> but then answer -- >> he's not going to win the primary. it is august before this whole election. >> connie, i've got to ask you this. many people -- most people would not even be discussing jeb bush if donald trump, quite honestly, was not attacking him. so my question, again, is why is he focused on jeb bush? >> because he knows that jeb bush is a threat. he knows that jeb bush has the brain and has the ideas that people are going to be attracted to. and the only way a bully can win in those fights is to try to keep you down. >> okay. >> and so he wants to -- >> so he's not -- >> he's not exclusively focused on -- >> you know, i really got into what donald is all about. not words or campaign speeches, but what, you know, how did he build his business. how does he treat his employees. what is he all about. and what i found was that he is a very savvy businessman. i sat in on his meetings with architects, lawyers, he would actually take a felt pen and draw where he wants a particular outcove to be. i went out to his golf course he was building, he would choose the color of rock -- >> what's your point, though? >> i'm saying that he is someone who is very competent who could be president and do a good job. and that's why he's been so successful. >> because he can draw on plans and pick a color? >> hillary clinton is so nasty to her secret service agents on her detail that being assigned to her detail is considered a form of punishment. that's in my book, "the first family detail." and visited him in the hospital, insisted that he stayed to recooperate, that is and, also, makes a point that he accepts jews and blacks at his club whereas some palm beach clubs, to this day, do not accept blacks. >> onto cay lee now, i want you to watch. listen. >> i think jeb is a nice person. he's very low-energy. i'm not used to that kind of a person. i'm just not used to it. i'm used to, you know, dealing with killers. i mean, you know, negotiating with japan. ne gauche yating with china. when these people walk in the room, they don't say hello, how's the weather outside? isn't it beautiful? how are the yankees doing? it's wonderful. great. they say we want deal. he'd jump out of the seat. but i watched. by the way, before i say this, who would you rather have negotiating against china? against iran? what a deal that is. you talk about incompetent people. against anybody. jeb bush, hillary clinton or trump? i think so. >> who does it help? >> it doesn't help trump. you know, if anything, it brings bush's name into the discussion. and i think you posed an comment question when you asked why is donald trump punching down. donald trump needs to realize he's hit into the passion of the everyday american. but he doesn't serve himself well by attacking gop candidates. it's a clear violation. it's not guilty helpful. we saw him viciously attack megan kelly. donald trump needs to step back and control himself. he has this pre-disposition of attacking anyone who attacks him. he needs to step back and realize where he's at and dial f in that part of his personality. >> they're getting a free pass. tonight, you've spent hours talking about donald trump and jorge ramos when, instead, we could have been talking about hillary clinton and her e-mails and that scandal. but, instead, a four-minute exchange because it's great television. those are the people who are celebrating. >> listen, i'm not going to say that you're at all wrong. but if you really want to watch, if you're really paying attention to what's going on, ramos, who is hispanic goes to a press conference. he asks a question, donald trump says i did not call on you. it's really sort of microcosm of what's happening with the entire immigration debate. i want you to wait your turn. no, i have the right to ask this question. no, i want you to get out. but as donald trump says, i'll allow the good people to come back in. think about it. think about the analogy that's happening here. it's exactly what the immigration debate is how donald trump is portraying the immigration debate in this country. it's not just good television. >> i agree with that. but it's not -- i don't think it rises to the level of covering everything else. every other issue. i mean, there are other issues to be talking about. and, quite frankly, donald trump needs to be talking about those issues. he needs to be focused on the democrats and how he's going to take them on. rather than taking on the republicans. this is free advice to donald trump. at a certain point, primary voters are going we're looking for the captain of our team. not the person that kills all the players. so i think donald trump would serve himself well by focusing his attention on hillary clinton. >> well thrks is what we're going to see. thank you, guys. i appreciate you joining us on cnn tonight. i'm going to ask the "new york times" frank rooney. that's next. en zeitlin is man kind? 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>> we've seen this a million times. it's not the best thing in the world, but it's happened a mill i don't know times. you can handle it with decidedly more grace. so i think tonight's exchange is going to work out really well for him. >> it all depends on tonight's perspective. if you read what people are saying about it, he should have waited his turn. he's out of line. but his panic voters might have seen it differently. >> we've seen a lot of aggressive voters who don't wait their turn.
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