now for redistricting and incumbents and people like michael beerman can do more than ever. they have more data. they can map things much more easily. before, people used to guess and estimate about, you know, the census and where people lived, and taking data from lists and putting it on a map and that kind of thing. now politicians are much more efficient in terms of drawing maps. on one hand, it empowers politicians. on the other hand, people can actually draw their own maps and see. i mean, there's a -- you know, technology democracytizes this. there's voter registration modernization. the government registers people. you don't have to turn in a paper form, and it's not on the individual, and because it's automatic, more people are registered and more people end up voting so technology can be really a good in terms of increasing access, or it can be bad in terms of manipulating rules. >> host: do you trust electronic voting machines? >> guest: i think there's safeguards we need with electronic voting machines. we need certainly awe gets -- audits, we need backup systems.