michael beschloss, we think this is unprecedented. i guess you could say there were times during wilson's illness that maybe staffers piped up, perhaps. i'm trying to think of other times where you might have had something like this. i don't know. michael, you're the expert here. tell us -- >> yeah, chuck, if we're straining for some kind of a parallel, in the last week the richard nixon, people around nixon were worried about how he might behave if he were pushed to the brink of resignation. james schlessinger, the secretary of defense, told people in the pentagon if you get a message from nixon for something like putting tanks around the white house or using the 101st airborne or using the military to somehow keep himself in office, they were really talking this way, schlessinger says disregard that order unless it is countersigned by me. at the time henry kissinger, the secretary of state, was privately saying al hague, the white house chief of staff, was holding the country together and he, kissinger, was holding the world togethe

michael beschloss made the same point. madison wanted to slow the system down so that some kind of comity could prevail. i am extremely concerned about the future legitimacy of the judiciary as chief justice john roberts must be. he is the person who will determine whether the court is perceived as partisan by half the country or whether there's some hope of bipartisan legitimacy. the fact the system is slowing down, at least it will appear to be fair raises some hope that we've stepped back from the abyss we were on. it was a distressing possibility to think of how americans would look at the courts had this nomination been rushed through in a way that seemed unfair and the fact that we've slowed down is, indeed, something madison would celebrate. >> michael beschloss, you've had half an hour or two to compose yourself since we were on tv. >> i'm trying, ali. >> what do you think this looks like next? in other words does jeff flake go down in history as a guy who did what jeff rosen said so we can be deliberate about this

it got me wondering, which gatt me calling nbc presidential historian michael beschloss. mr. beschloss, thank you for your time tonight. it's nice to have you here. >> pleasure, rachel. >> i've been thinking about this dynamic. obviously there are questions how brett kavanaugh was pickford this nomination in the first place given that president trump has been named as an unindicted cocon spore or the in multiple felonies, given the fact that is the subject of a very serious ongoing investigation. that raised questions anyway in terms of whether there might be some implicit arrangement in his own liability choosing this nominee. now we've got this whole new element, similar dynamic where this nominee is really holing up in the white house, crying to save this nomination while they're really going to the mattresses for him. are there historical parallels here? is there anything we should look for in history in order to understand the importance of this? >> well, i think we should look to the founders, rachel, and what they wanted was a big distance between the justices of the s

big thanks to shane, ruth, hugh, michael beschloss. we'll be back with more tomorrow. that breaking news coverage continues. "the beat" with ari melber, you were like me, two hours ago, thinking you were about to d dissect, blummenthal versus -- >> speak with me for a minute, as a student of washington, to use your political the saur us. dan rather says ca boom, i've never seen anything like this anonymous op-ed. beschloss said i've never seen anything like this. our colleague rachel maddow says this is an unusual day. how do you put it? >> ari, i think that's right. it's -- there's something on fire, a whole bunch of people have grabbed hoses. the question is, is everybody hosing down the same fire? >> yeah. >> i mean, i think it's that chiotic right now. i'll tell you the one thing we realize, nobody was more -- about the trump administration than jeb bush when he said he was the chaos candidate and the chaos president. >> that was his critique, his way to win. jeb bush, what everyone thinks of him, he's been around these people and around government and he said this

michael beschloss, presidential historian. thank you for being here.ng in very choppy seas for me right now. >> i feel they are choppy seas. you're absolutely right. happy to help that i can. >> you're the reason i read "night at camp david." because i was trying to get my head around at least fictional precedent if we couldn't find real historical precedence. is this really something we've never seen before? there have been discussions about the 25th amendment before, yes? >> yes, there have been but never came near to being invoked. it will be hard to do if it were because you do have to get those two-thirds of congress. i think we're in a national emergency and today it goss worse. this morning you had this nominee for the supreme court, judge kavanaugh who is filling the seat of anthony kennedy who was almost rushed off the supreme court by donald trump. in comes kavanaugh with almost fringe views how much a president should be allowed to get away with. then this afternoon, this can cry for help from someone high up in the trump administration sayi

this weekend, our friend, the historian and author michael beschloss posted this photo. n otherwise unremarkable color snapshot as we called them taken by a canadian tourist showing the world trade center towers against a dramatic early september sky. michael also posted the front page of "the new york times" from that day, september 10th, featuring the usual stuff, stories about the economy, stem cell research along with photos and an accompanying big story about the new york mayoral race to replace rudolph giuliani. that simple color photo we keep going back to one more time, september 10th, 2001. it might have been the last innocent day of the modern era. life in our nation has never been the same. they said the same thing about pearl harbor and they were right. every night here we talk about efforts to reshape the post-world war ii world, after all, as we live in the post-9/11 world every moment of every day. that is our broadcast for this monday night, september 10th, 2018. that you so very much for being here with us. good night from nbc news headquarters here in ne

. >> michael beschloss, it's always such a treat to talk to you. >> me too.and have a great weekend, joy. >> you too. we'll be right back. weekend, joy >> you too we'll be right back. -♪ he's got legs of lumber and arms of steel ♪ ♪ he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal ♪ ♪ he holds your house in the palm of his hand ♪ ♪ he's your home and auto man ♪ big jim, he's got you covered ♪ ♪ great big jim, there ain't no other ♪ -so, this is covered, right? -yes, ma'am. take care of it for you right now. giddyup! hi! this is jamie. we need some help. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. with large debris and stuck-on dust, so shark invented duoclean, replacing the front wall with a rotating soft brush. while deep cleaning carpets, two brush rolls pick up large particles with ease, make quick work of stuck-on dust, giving hard floors a polished look, and fearlessly devour piles. shark duoclean technology