michael brune is the president of the sierra club. and scott segal is a lobbyist for utility, refinery and oil and gas companies at bracewell and giuliani llp. scott segal, if you had to look at what you saw today in these announcements, what would you say the administration's priorities are? >> i often remind folks on capitol hill that even if you oppose the president's choice, you don't get to pick the cabinet yourself. in this instance, i think we've got some interesting choices that i believe advance the ball forward. with respect to gina mccarthy, she's shown herself to be open and very direct. i don't always agree with the final result she reaches on rules. sometimes the benefits and costs of those rules are both overstated and understated. that can be problematic but when there are problems -- and there are always problems with thousand-page epa rules -- gina mccarthy at least wants to hear about it and interact with the community. moniz brings a clear-eyed approach to the department of energy and an actual familiarity with ene

michael brune is the executive director of one of america's oldest and biggest grassroots environmental groups, the sierra club. he joins us from san francisco. welcome, michael. >> hi, fareed. thanks for having me on. >> tell me why i'm wrong. >> well look, what you're saying sounds very reasonable, but we need to meet the challenge of climate change with all of the ambition and inspiration that we have to offer. what we know is that tar sands oil is dirtier than conventional oil. what we also know is that we shouldn't be spending $7 billion on a dirty and dangerous pipeline when we know that clean energy will do a better job. >> if you look around the world, is this the worst form of energy? it's dirty coal plants for sure, and i know you've done good work on that. i totally support you and the sierra club on it, but what i'm struck by is why are you signaling out this one when, you know, at the end of the day the greenhouse gas emissions profile is not going to be that different given that we continue to consume the stuff. why not try to do something about that consumption issue? >>

michael brune, you were kind to come on. you were civil in your disagreement. i appreciate that. i admire the sierra club for many things you do. thanks for joining us. >>> up next, the death of hugo chavez. what it means for venezuela and the world. we'll be right back. whoa! nobody insures more bikes than progressive. do you guys ride? well... no. sometimes, yeah. yes. well, if you know anybody else who also rides, send them here -- we got great coverage. it's not like bikers love their bikes more than life itself. i doubt anyone will even notice. leading the pack in motorcycle insurance. now, that's progressive. call or click today. aarrggh! ...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. >>> the death on tuesday of venezuelan president hugo chavez was melt with cheers on the streets of caracas, but probably with quiet sighs of relief in washington and other western capitols. during his rein over the largest oil reserves, chavez has been a thorn in his side as he kicked out concern